Author Topic: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement  (Read 19277 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline themagicalatsi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« on: January 29, 2010, 12:49:20 PM »
Two questions:

Is it worth replacing my timing chain? 
(The bike has 40k miles, the head and cyl. case are already off, I have a timing chain and $400 of new valves)

Has anybody heard of a timing chain breaking? 

Followup: 

What is the procedure of replacing the timing chain?
(can't figure out how to get the old one off...)

Offline Kevin D

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,908
  • SE Michigan
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 02:06:29 PM »
Thats three questions. :) :)

1 yes

2 yes, heard of it, on race bikes.

3  lift the crank and slide the new chain over.
   (with crankcase split)   

   or..... easier...cut the chain and reinstall with master link.
   (no need to split crankcase)
71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,407
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 03:10:36 PM »
Z1 enterprises will sell you a new Tsubaki racing cam chain (much better than the OEM item) for around 30 bucks, AND they'll sell you a "master link" so you can replace it without splitting your cases. you just attach your new chain to your old chain, and turn the crank until you've wound your old chain off the crank, then join your new chain, and you'll be good to go. While you're at it, replace your worn out old cam tensioner and roller, and cam chain guide with nice new ones. Don't forget to lap your new valves into your head for a perfect seal! Cheers, Terry. ;D

http://www.z1enterprises.com/catalog.aspx?pid=CB750K-1976-EN0
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline themagicalatsi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 03:16:28 PM »
Thanks!... and yeah, definitely was three questions...

Offline themagicalatsi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 04:03:20 PM »
Is this a problem ???... I cut my chain and just discovered that the chain I have is a complete loop... I ordered a master link also, assuming that it wasn't a complete loop.

So,

Do I split the crank case to put the chain on? 

Or am I supposed to cut the new chain to put my master link in...

I just assumed if they sell a master link for a chain it wouldn't come complete... or that is why the sell it separately?

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,407
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 04:07:08 AM »
There is a lot to be said for not splitting your chain, there is always a worry that you won't install the master properly, so it'll fall apart at several thousand RPM, causing catastrophic damage, or alternatively, making it too tight, causing a "tight spot" on your chain, and risking some other kind of catastrophic damage.

Of course, if you can master the black art of correctly joining your cam chain with a "soft link", you'll rob yourself of the pleasure of having to split your cases, replacing seals that weren't previously leaking and primary chains that aren't actually unserviceable, but you've decided that you better replace while you've got the cases apart. Hell, it's only money..........

Then you can enjoy the hours of excitement of cleaning up the mating surfaces of the crankcase halves before applying (carefully) a thin bead of case sealant and rejoining the case halves, hoping that (1) you haven't blocked an oilway with sealant, and (2) you've chosen the correct sealant and your cases won't leak.

If you do decide to split your chain, the method that I use is to grind the ends off the pins of one link, then just push that link out. The ends of the pins on the master link are dimpled so that they can be spread slightly to "rivet" them into the end plate of the link. You can buy a special tool to rivet them over, or you can use a hammer, centre punch and "dolly" (steel block) to do this, but the tool is easier, as you can do it all with one hand. Buy it with the money you saved on seals, primary chains and case sealant. 

Whatever you do, just take it carefully and you should be ok. Cheers, Terry. ;D   
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline scooter1

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
  • 1973 cb750
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 08:43:54 AM »
Its not that hard!!! Just make sure when you join the two chains together....new to old to pull it through, make sure it is secure....I used some small stainless wire because you don't have the clearance to use anything big.  I tried using a cable tie but there was not enough clearance!!!!
Some might just use the master link but you run the risk of dropping into the crank!!
If you do use the thin stainless wire make sure you give it a few good twist....mine came apart inside the crank...3 hrs of fishing with a telescopic magnet was no fun!!!!
you also might want to get a friend to turn the crank with a wrench....It will make it much easier....and remove you plugs, it will make turning the crank much easier!!

JUST TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!

Offline Steve F

  • I have "some-timer's disease" because I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,928
  • "To Ride Is The Reason, The Destination The Excuse
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 09:41:20 AM »
Don't forget that since you're turning the crank/pistons to back off all of the valve adjusters so you're not hitting a valve with a piston in the process of fishing the new chain through.

Offline scooter1

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
  • 1973 cb750
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2010, 06:30:23 PM »
I thought I forgot something.....what he said!!!!

Offline bucky katt

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,564
  • i am a pastafarian!
    • facebook
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 10:37:42 AM »
damn those chain breakers/riveters arent anywhere near cheap are they?
Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.
Mark Twain - Notebook, 1894

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 10:44:37 AM »
No, but well worth the money and pretty much pays for itself if you replace a cam and drive chain.

I got the Motion Pro and it worked like a charm on my drive chain.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline PGcorky

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 12:03:37 PM »
Sure I'm not the only guy searching old posts. Just found this tool at Harbor Freight which I'm gonna try later today on my cam chain. Reviewers note that it can be used both for breaking the chain, and for installing a new rivet once your getting it back together. http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-chain-breaker-66488.html
1978 CB750f Super Sport
2002 Honda VFR800 Interceptor
Babysitting - 2005 Harley Sportster 1200

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,820
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 12:42:59 PM »
Why do the cam chain only??
If its due to the milage, the pimary chains need to be replaced AND the tensioner too. Cam chain tensioner complete as weel.

The rattle sound from a CB750 is not the cam chain only. My engine is more quiet than ever before due to the primary chains. Heavy duty versions that are slightly tigther from the very beginning. I have replaced these before but engine got OEM.
Cam chain HD version too as back in the days.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Coyote13

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 534
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2014, 03:48:29 PM »
I bought a chain breaker at the dreaded Harbor Freight a few years back and was actually fairly impressed with it.  It isn't a complicated tool and gets the job done well for I think about 6 bucks
'78 CB750K.  Throttle ripper.
'71 CB100.  Grocery getter.
'01 XL883.  Panty dropper. Gone but not forgotten.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,407
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2014, 01:55:54 AM »
You blokes in the states are lucky, over here I bought a very similar breaker to that HF one here in Oz and it cost 80 bucks! It worked well though, so that one is definitely worth the 15 bucks.

Pewe raises a good point though, if your cam chain is knackered, you can guarantee that your tensioner assembly will be stuffed as well. Primary chains? Well if you've got the skills to split your cases (and more importantly, be able to put it back together properly) go for it, but unless your bike has done a ton of miles you may not have to. I've replaced a lot, and most didn't need to be replaced. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,820
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2014, 02:51:05 AM »
Forgot to mention that the primary chain slack can be measured. Just remove oil pan and measure distance to the tensioner. The HONDA workshop manual show this and how to.... about 65mm with new chains, service limit is >70mm.

My old OEM chains were 67.5mm after about 30.000km. Most of it on highways in high speed.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline yitzac1990

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2016, 02:37:12 PM »
I hate to revive an old thread, but this is the best thread I have found on replacing the timing chain...

I am at the point where my rocker arms are disassembled and out of the head, and the cam is just sitting in the cam channels (cam caps removed).  the cam sprocket is loose, tensioner is loose, etc.  however, following the Honda shop manual, it says to just take the chain off the cam sprocket, remove the cam and sprocket, then continue removing the cylinder.  but i dont have enough slack in my chain to get it over the sprocket...is this the point where I use the chain breaker, and just break the chain?  if I do that, do I need to keep the chain suspended so it doesnt fall off the crank?  or will it be safe to leave loose, and it wont come off the crank?  I want to be able to do the "attach-and-pull-through" method for my new chain.

Im also replacing the guide, guide pin, rollers, guide rubber bushings, and piston rings while im at it, so thats why I need to take the cylinders off as well...

P.S. how do I make sure the timing is set correctly?  I followed the shop manual and put the crank at the "T" mark for 1-4 cylinders, and made sure the cam timing mark was horizontal and the notch was vertical.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 02:38:50 PM by yitzac1990 »
1978 CB750K

Offline madmtnmotors

  • When did I get to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,114
  • Sunny Central Florida
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2016, 04:58:01 PM »
I am at the point where my rocker arms are disassembled and out of the head, and the cam is just sitting in the cam channels (cam caps removed).  the cam sprocket is loose, tensioner is loose, etc.  however, following the Honda shop manual, it says to just take the chain off the cam sprocket, remove the cam and sprocket, then continue removing the cylinder.  but i dont have enough slack in my chain to get it over the sprocket...is this the point where I use the chain breaker, and just break the chain?

NO!  :o

Remove the two bolts holding the sprocket to the cam, then slip the cam sprocket off the cam. Now you have the slack to lift the chain off the sprocket. Lift it to the side that the cam flange is on so the chain lands between the sprocket and the flange on the cam. Lift the cam and start moving towards the #1 cylinder while gradually nudging the sprocket and chain off the other end at the same time. Just take your time.

EZPZ  8)

TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline seanbarney41

  • not really that much younger than an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,931
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2016, 05:07:58 PM »
And dont forget to remove the tensioner housing off the back of the engine
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline evanphi

  • Apparently I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,106
  • Rhonda the Basket Case
Re: URGENT! CB750 timing (cam) chain replacement
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2016, 05:38:44 AM »
And dont forget to remove the tensioner housing off the back of the engine

That'll give plenty of slack!
--Evan

1975 CB750K "Rhonda"
Delkevic Stainless 4-1 Header, Cone Engineering 18" Quiet Core Reverse Cone, K&N Filter in Drilled Airbox
K5 Crankcase/Frame, K4 Head and Cylinders, K1 Carbs (42;120;1 Turn)

She's a mix-matched (former) basket case, but she's mine.

CB750 Shop Manual (all years), searchable text PDF
Calculating the correct input circumference for digital speedometers connected to the original speedometer drive