Author Topic: Seamus - '74 550 (Read 35868 times)

theofam · « **Reply #125 on:** November 03, 2010, 11:41:28 am »

Thanks, cornandp. I have new shocks that are about an inch longer than stock, so I bolted them up this AM to see what I'm dealing with in terms of clearance before my beefy 6'1", 112 lb, ugly mug gets on:

Doesn't look like much clearance. Here's a better reference point with a deep socket:

But, from the side, it looks groovy. I love the pc'd rear wheel, new spokes, and cleaned up hub/drum cover:

I'm going to !@#$ can my tray-under-the-frame idea - simply not enough clearance. On to Plan B. I think I'll lay a tray on top of the frame, but I'll need to tuck more electrical under the cowl, and that dang stock, rear-fender support hoop at the back of the frame takes up too much real estate. If I grind it off, can I weld a cross member between the frame rails and still provide adequate support?

Also, the shocks I mentioned above leave mucho to be desired. Check out the wiggle room in this photo at the clevis mount.

Is it OK to shim this space with washers? The originals were a much tighter fit. I have a similar issue on the eye mounts up top. The eye's width is .170" narrower than stock, so they move left to right. Oh, yeah, they didn't come with bushings for the eyes, either. Time to make a phone call!

I'm a rookie

, so I gladly accept all feedback and ideas.

theofam · « **Reply #126 on:** November 03, 2010, 12:12:37 pm »

I'm such a tool - bushings, shock wrench, and washers were all included with my shocks. I didn't see them hiding behind some paper after I ripped open the box like a kid at Christmas!

Little_Horse · « **Reply #127 on:** November 03, 2010, 05:20:38 pm »

Yeah I know you said to scrap the tray and I agree it isn't enough space it will bottom under harder hits. So I have a few tips and questions.

Are you planning on making it kick start only or are you wanting to keep the starter?

The reason I ask is if you are going kick only you can go to batteries plus or some store that carries a variety of small equipment batteries, then you get the smallest 12v motorcycle or scooter battery you can. I did this with my cb and ended up with a 12v battery that had dimensions of 2x3x3 and 2.6 ah I believe. So I was able to stuff it into my cowl.

The next thing is if you are going to keep the big battery you can gain some space by removing the frame strap that it sits under. I don't believe it is very structural I do think it was more for seat support. I personally say to go for it and remove anything not needed. Also the way I ended up matching my frame to cowl added the strength back in if it really is a problem. You may consider attempting to do something similar. I think it makes the cowl and frame look alot better if the match each other to some extent.

Looking at the cowl I would say you definitely are on the right track I do think the cowl could be rounded more on the sides, but that may just be my personal preference.

I like you shocks by the way, I am jealous.

Stev-o · « **Reply #128 on:** November 03, 2010, 06:16:03 pm »

Looking real good! Is that a Bridgestone tire?

theofam · « **Reply #129 on:** November 04, 2010, 08:58:06 am »

cornandp, I've decided to keep the electric start, which is why I went with the bigger battery. Maybe my next project will be kick only!

When you say "the way I ended up matching my frame to cowl added the strength back in if it really is a problem," are you referring to your cutting off the back part of the frame behind the shock mounts and welding in your gusseted round tube? If so, I've thought of that option, but I haven't figured out a way to bend the tubing. If I leave the frame stock back there, I intend on covering it up with the cowl, unlike your cowl which sits atop the rear part of the frame, which, looks awesome. I think if I cut out the rear strap/fender hanger/seat support, I may weld a tray inside the frame, which would improve torsional rigidity (hope that's the right use of "torsion").

Stev-O, the tires I went with are Kenda Challengers. They're inexpensive and get solid reviews. Bikebandit.com rocks in terms of delivery, too. Oh, yeah, loved you in Jack@#$ 3D!

I ordered a 4-4 exhaust system off a forum member. Just arrived. I haven't unboxed them to check condition, but I'm kinda digging the symmetry of two pipes on each side of Seamus - although, they're heavy as hell! We'll see if I use them or offer them back up to the masses.

Little_Horse · « **Reply #130 on:** November 04, 2010, 06:23:09 pm »

yeah you understood what I was trying to say lol

I am not as clear on the drugs they have me on. I like the tray as strength idea. Keep it up!

theofam · « **Reply #131 on:** November 04, 2010, 09:31:16 pm »

cornandp, glad I understood you correctly! Hope those meds are helping. I can't stand painkillers after surgeries - I'd make a terrible druggie. My old neighbor always wanted them for recreational purposes. Never understood why someone would want to go through life that way. Gimme some beer, and I'm good to go!

So, after realizing I was back to the drawing board on a battery/electrical tray, I stripped the rear wheel and shocks back off Seamus. I ground off the rear hoop (glad to have that thing out of the way!), and fab'd up a new tray:

I left a bunch of room toward the rear of the tray to accommodate whatever shape I decide on for a cowl.

The frame is flat in the seat area, but then it steps up a bit toward the rear. I couldn't figure out how I could get the tray to seat properly on the frame for welding tomorrow, so I made a couple relief cuts. You can see them in the left corner of this photo:

The relief cuts basically splayed as I bent the metal down to meet the frame. I'm hoping I'll still be able to weld up that gap. cornandp?

sinister902 · « **Reply #132 on:** November 05, 2010, 06:10:00 am »

that gap will weld right up just fine. (assuming your not using flux-core)

theofam · « **Reply #133 on:** November 05, 2010, 08:19:37 am »

Whew, thanks sinister902! That makes me feel better. Nope, I'm not using flux core. Off to HF for some clamps, then it's on to welding the tray!

sinister902 · « **Reply #134 on:** November 05, 2010, 09:37:38 am »

what I would do, is make a tack weld every inch or so, and use a nice clean smooth hammer to whack the metal down as flat to the fram as possible as you work your way around.....

like so:
make first tack weld.
give the next inch or so of metal a good few taps
make second tack weld one inch or so from first
give the next new inch or so of metal a few taps

and continue around the metal.....though I would put one at the very back first, then one at either of the two front corners, and work up each side back and forth until the meet at the middle/back. then go back and stich in the inch gaps and your relief cuts

theofam · « **Reply #135 on:** November 05, 2010, 10:38:19 am »

sinister902, sounds like a good game plan! Thanks for the advice. This is my first welding effort, so I'm going to spend time this afternoon working on some scrap metal before I bring over the frame. . . fingers and toes are all crossed I don't burn a hole in the dang frame!

sinister902 · « **Reply #136 on:** November 05, 2010, 12:21:38 pm »

keep a bucket with some room-temperature water in it, and a heavy rag..... dip the rag every so often and wring it most of the way dry, so that its mostly just damp at room temperature. If your metal looks like its warping alot as you weld it, press the damp rag over the tack weld as soon as you pull your trigger away from it. this will keep the heat from making it much farther than the tack which is what causes the warpage. if you stagger around the peice as i said from side to side, this also helps keep it from warping because the temp will be more consistant across the peice.

Little_Horse · « **Reply #137 on:** November 05, 2010, 05:50:30 pm »

all good advice from sinister, I just wanted to say that the golden rule of metal fab is to tack everything in/together very well before attempting welding. Never weld without things tack or clamped completely first. With sheet metal work a tack every inch is not over doing it that is how much is needed. Also you don't need to weld every part all the way around. Figure out where the weld can do the most work and not need to be supper long, efficiency vs over engineering things a ton saves time and will keep things from warping as much. There is a fine line of balance here though. Like the updates!

theofam · « **Reply #138 on:** November 05, 2010, 08:09:45 pm »

In the words of Ice Cube "I got to say it was a good day!" No, not 'cuz I didn't even have to use my A.K., but because I got to spend some time with my welder.

Before I touch the frame, I'm going to spend some time learning how to use the welder - novel thought. So, my first effort looked like this. Kind of like metal vomit:

My second effort looked better. The last couple welds I did were the two on the left. Once I got the amperage dialing in on the 16 ga sheet metal, I didn't blow holes in the stuff!

That was so much fun, I decided to make my battery/electrical tray. Please keep in mind, this is ghetto fab. I've a 4.5" grinder to cut out my sheet metal, and I drink too much coffee. Not a good combo. I'd sell my dog for a band saw or plasma cutter.

The battery fits in there like a glove! Not sure I even need to run a strap over it, but I will for peace of mind. I tacked together (more tacks to go based on sinister902 and cornandp's input) what will be a three-sided, six-inch tall stand to mount all my electrical:

I was pretty stoked with the resulting welds on the rear side of the battery box:

I was less-than-stoked when I tried to weld a seam inside the battery box. You can tell the heat affected zone (HAZ) flares way out at the bottom of the weld. I have an uncanny ability to blow through the metal at both the beginning and ending edges of the material. I'm not sure how to get the bead started on the beginning edge without blowing through, and I seem to have a heavy pedal foot. When I finally realize I'm near the end of the material, I blow out the back end. . . again, very similar to Ice Cube when his jimmy goes so deep, it puts the butt to sleep.

I can't figure out why the tack welds in the above pic are brown/black. Not enough heat? Tungsten too far from the metal?

I can't wait to get back out there to finish up the welds and start mounting electrical bits! I'll be back at it next Tuesday.

Stev-o · « **Reply #139 on:** November 06, 2010, 06:30:03 am »

You're getting there! I remember when I was learning to weld, it wasn't pretty! I prefer doing it at this time of year rather than peak summer when it's 100 degrees.

theofam · « **Reply #140 on:** November 06, 2010, 06:51:45 am »

Stev-O, thanks for rooting me on! I'm TIGing, so, thankfully, it doesn't get very hot. I was surprised how much the metal warps when you start putting down the longer beads and the metal heats up. Total respect on my end for guys like you, cornandp and sinister902 who can actually make something square and flat!

Stev-o · « **Reply #141 on:** November 06, 2010, 07:21:10 am »

I'm a MIG'er but don't practice much anymore. I leave it to Edgar, "my" pro welder. Thank goodness his welding is better than his English!

Little_Horse · « **Reply #142 on:** November 06, 2010, 08:44:06 am »

So the trick to keeping warpage down on sheet metal is to move quickly with the torch. In order to do this you need to pump a lot of power in and smoothly and accurately move the torch where the weld needs to be fast. In college class we always kept saying "hot and fast" to each other. This means that you need to practice to be able to do this. So 16ga by the way is pretty thick for sheet metal. You can get away with fewer tacks. As you get better you will find that doing thinner metal becomes possible like 22ga. Most work I do whether it is aluminum or steel is with 20ga though.

So on an outside corner weld like the one you practiced and improved on if you get the fit to be the inside corner of each piece touching each other so that there is a angle formed on the outside then you can get by with no filler metal and just fuse the two pieces together by taking the torch and aiming the tungsten the direction you are going to head with your weld by about 45 degrees. In essence pushing the puddle along the corner. But you need to move fast as sitting still will blow a hole pretty quick.

theofam · « **Reply #143 on:** November 06, 2010, 09:30:54 am »

Cornandp, based on that, I did all of it wrong! I was blowing holes with a hotter setting (too slow), so I reduced amperage to match my turtle pace. I'll practice turning up the heat and picking up the pace. As always, thanks for your guidance.

Little_Horse · « **Reply #144 on:** November 06, 2010, 10:37:32 am »

also where you aim the arc plays a big role. Most people aim it straight at the material. Not only does this make it harder to see past the cup but it overheats the area because it doesn't heat where you need to go but where you just "needed" to be, if that makes sense. You need to tip the torch so the tungsten and arc are aimed slightly towards the direction you are going. Like about 30 degrees etc. Not too much tipping though. On a corner like you where doing it would be 30 degrees and 30 degrees if you where to look at on an x an y plain. Maybe I can make a picture in 3d so I can illustrate. Give me a few minutes.

Little_Horse · « **Reply #145 on:** November 06, 2010, 11:15:32 am »

Like this, note the arrow shows direction you are welding towards.

RustyOlive · « **Reply #146 on:** January 11, 2013, 07:59:40 pm »

Dam bro!!
Bike is going to look killer!

Get back to work already! Hahahaha.

theofam · « **Reply #147 on:** January 11, 2013, 09:07:18 pm »

RO, it's because of Olivia that I haven't slept much the past week! I keep thinking of different things I'd like to do to Seamus based on your inspiration. Just cast my BOTM vote for you - Olivia looks AWESOME!

My plan is to get Paddy together this month and blow the cobwebs off Seamus. Can't wait to hit up my local motorcycle salvage to see if I can track down a CBR600RR front end!

RustyOlive · « **Reply #148 on:** January 12, 2013, 07:20:56 am »

I don't know what to say.... Lol thank you. :-)

I still have a lot of work to do on Olivia.
Need to strip her all down and start painting and finishing touches.
And also need to look into what I want to do in regards to engine work.
Still on the fence to just rebuild stock. Or do the big bore/piston kits. I might ride her the next summer as is and do the engine next winter when I hope I have more money to tackle the boreing and machining.

Good luck finding a front end.
I'll be following your progress :-)

theofam · « **Reply #149 on:** January 12, 2013, 09:30:46 am »

RO, I'm sure your VW restoration experience will come in very handy when it's time to tear down Olivia for paint and final touches. . . is it possible to win/contend for BOTM two different times with the same bike? If so, Olivia can do it.

I understand the CB650 cam (I think it was 1979-1980 bolts right in to our CB550 motors. It's supposed to be a cheap, quick way to perk them up a bit. You might keep that in mind when you're considering engine mods.

My vote is ride her as is for awhile. I doubt you could get many more thumbs up and rubber neckers as you cruise down the road than you are right now!

I rebuilt a '71 VW Super Beetle in high school as my first-ever project. To me it was the coolest ride on the planet (though bondo outweighed sheet metal). So, finding you on here, I kinda feel like I've got a brother from another mother!

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Author Topic: Seamus - '74 550 (Read 35868 times)