Topic: U.S. Goverment

[RatBikeRandy]

srust - I knew there was something that I could agree with you on.  That was a fine looking outdoor cooking setup.  I'm personally looking forward to our annual winter camping trip at the end of February (a little late this year due to weather and schedules).  Nothing beats a brisk morning with wood smoke, coffee and bacon frying.

[BobbyR]

OK, for the moment I'll run with your re-direction, but surely you didn't think I'd miss it, did you?

First you said:

And really, shouldn't Bill Gates pay a higher tax rate than somebody who makes $400,000 a year?

After some healthy rebuttal, you now state:

Well, okay. I'd rather not pay for war or bailing out trillion dollar industries. I'd sure love it if i could pay for some heath care instead. And I suppose that was a big part of the OP, we pay more than we get.

So, let's put that all together and get to the point:  YOU don't want to spend any of your money on anything.  You want to spend other people's money the way YOU see fit.

So, you think it is morally right to impose your will upon other people?

Furthermore, anyone making over $100,000/year these days is either in the highest tax bracket or is paying the Alternative Minimum Tax, so is effectively in the highest tax bracket anyway.  What about their rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?  Is it fair that they work hard for their money, yet they should be saddled with the burden of supporting every other person out there?

What about just cutting all the damned ridiculous government spending, government agencies, government bureaucracies, government stimulus programs, government welfare, government entitlements, government czars, government bull#$%*, and let us get the damned economy moving in a sustainable way?

No, I'm not talking about throwing babies out into the trash heap and kicking the handicapped to the curb.  I'm talking about nonsense like section 8 housing for able-bodied men and women in their 20's.  I'm talking about chronic welfare for able-bodied people.  I'm talking about pensions for lazy, incompetent government employees who don't do squat for 20 years while "working" for the government, and then collect their dole for the next 30 years until they die.  I'm talking about government incompetence and waste causing us working people to have to work well into our sixties because the taxes are so high that we can never afford to retire.  I'm talking about government giving out contracts to vendors who contribute to campaign funds, thus perpetuating the system's flaws.  I'm talking about all those things, plus a plethora of other wasteful, inequitable programs that don't do a damned bit of good for anyone.

Most of all, I hate the lying, sneaking, nonsense of throwing money at "the poor" instead of actually teaching them how not to be poor.  Why would anyone want to actually teach them, and help them better themselves, when they are so much more useful as a voting block?

I agree with a lot of what you say. I pay the Alternative Tax which means 36% and no deductions. I don;t mind paying my fair share. I do mind not being able to see something positive coming from the fair share I am paying. The Government needs to operate like any business. The grow these giant agencies that accomplish nothing.

I work in a real crappy neighborhood, and they have welfare clients work on public projects. There is a guy who sweeps the street. He actually cleans the street, I mean it is clean, and he breaks his ass doing it. Is it a make work job, maybe, but there is value. I am not seeing the value from my elected officials I am seeing from this guy with his broom and barrel.

 

[Duke McDukiedook]

Check your facts, syth82.  We didn't even have an income tax at all until 1861, in order to pay for the Civil War (uh oh -- let's not go there again).  Even then the tax was only 3%.  The insanely high taxes that we pay today (which are "progressive" meaning that higher earning wage earners pay higher tax rates) were absolutely unheard of until the 1916 Revenue Act, which raised the TOP tax rate to 15% for people who earned over $1.5 Million per year.

Still, that is less than half of the top tax rates we have now, and the top tax rates kick in at less than $100,000 for individuals now.

Government has grown out of control as a result.

I really should just stay out of the political threads, but.........

A BIG part of the reason we have all these little crap taxes on everything now that we didn't 100 years ago: in the past the wealthy have paid up to 94% income tax, now, thanks to Reagan and others, they pay 35% (373k and up). The money has to come from somewhere, before the people who could afford it payed. Now I do. And I'd rather pay taxes and have roads, schools, police, medicaid, etc, etc.

And really, shouldn't Bill Gates pay a higher tax rate than somebody who makes $400,000 a year?

Funny those kinds taxes started getting imposed on the citizens after the civil war and after 1913.

No coincidences there of course.

[demon78]

Who screwed up your government? The people. Who screwed up our government? The people. Who are you? The people. Take a bow!
I thought an informed people was supposed to be the cure for poor government, seems that you've been slacking, so have I, now it's coming back to bite both us in the nether regions.
Bill the demon.

[JS550]

It's not un-American to ask that.  What I find un-American is to exaggerate way beyond common sense and say things that are not true.  The list posted at the beginning of this thread is a good example.

I don't dare go back and correct the few minor mistakes that were in my post.  I have been labeled  UN-AMERICAN   for blowing everything out of proportion and saying things that are untrue.....doesn't matter that I have given over 44 years of service to the Air Force & Coast Guard. Doesn't matter that 99% of that is factual. Doesn't matter that our government is the problem and not the solution. I thought that speaking your mind and saying you government is wasteful was as AMERICAN as one could be. What is questionable is someone saying that that is un-american. Sounds like BAAA BAAA sheep are on the march again.

Actually, exaggerating things is very American. Kinda like, property values, gas mileage, the size of your.......nevermind.
Seriously though, I believe that its very American to question our government. Unfourtunantly, all we do is get each other wound up.
The inmates are runnin the asylum!

[VonYinzer]

Thomas Jefferson:
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.

Eugene V. Debs:
Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization. Progress is born of agitation. It is agitation or stagnation.


Henry David Thoreau:
If a thousand men were not to pay their tax-bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible.



Oscar Wilde:
Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.


Robert M. Hutchins:
The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.



Woody Guthrie:
Take it easy -- but take it.


Just some food for thought...

[TwoTired]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8513650.stm

President Barack Obama has signed a law increasing the limit on how much the US government can borrow.

The debt limit was raised to $14.3 trillion (£9.1tn) from $12.4tn, and will allow the government to function for the rest of the year. ...
...The US Treasury was expected to exceed the current $12.4tn debt limit within weeks.

Banking institutions celebrate, business as usual...
Meet the new boss... Same as the old boss.

Here is some simple math...
Assumption: US government = the population
US Government debt = The population's debt.

US population = about 310 million.
12.4 trillion/ 310 million = $40,000 in debt for every man/woman and child in the US.
Breakdown per actual taxpayer is 12.4 trillion/ 138,893,908 (2007 IRS stats) = $89,277 per filing individual.
Pay up sucker!

What is the definition of economic slavery?  Hmmmm...

When will the banking institutions foreclose on all US property?  (Not that they have to, the elected officials are perfect puppets/stewards in lock step with banking institution goals.)

[BeSeeingYou]

srust - I knew there was something that I could agree with you on.  That was a fine looking outdoor cooking setup.  I'm personally looking forward to our annual winter camping trip at the end of February (a little late this year due to weather and schedules).  Nothing beats a brisk morning with wood smoke, coffee and bacon frying.

Do you come up north for your winter camping and where?  The folding omelet pan in that picture is one of the best cooking utensils for camping.  We use it for pancakes, sliced potatoes with onions, grilled cheese, cobblers and upsidedown cakes, etc, and of course omelets.  It makes great thick pancakes that you can stuff with berries or chocolate chips.  You get used to the half round shape.  We like to eat good.  Get a deep one with the teflon coating but be careful to use only wooden/plastic utensils on it or you can scratch the teflon.  They are easy to find at second hand stores in perfect condition many times unused.  With care they last us about three seasons.

That photo and this one are at one of our favorite island campsites on Lac La Croix in the BWCA.

[RatBikeRandy]

SRUST - Nice place.  We do our winter camping in the Chattahoochee Nat'l Forest in the North Georgia Mountains.  Beautiful place on a nice trout stream.  Trust me, it really does get cold.  Many years it has been in the 10 - 14 Fahrenheit range.  The older I get, I hope and pray for a little warmer though.  We were blanketed with 4 -5 " of heavy , wet snow yesterday.
I have started using a couple of Dutch ovens in addition to my campstoves.  They make fine peach cobbler.

[Frankenkit]

I like packing serious light, so I made my stoves out of pop cans. 
http://www.instructables.com/id/Can-Stove/

The pics show using iso-heet but you use regular HEET (denatured alcohol, I think?) as fuel. Burns a nice clean blue and really hot. Fuel and stove are really light, so you can pack more food in your saddlebags. Everything fits in this:
http://www.rei.com/product/783287

Makes great one-pot meals and stuff, packs down small and fits in just one little corner of your bike bags.

[MickeyX]

Yup, two cans and a coat hanger and you're ready to cook. 

[BeSeeingYou]

I like packing serious light, so I made my stoves out of pop cans. 
http://www.instructables.com/id/Can-Stove/

The pics show using iso-heet but you use regular HEET (denatured alcohol, I think?) as fuel. Burns a nice clean blue and really hot. Fuel and stove are really light, so you can pack more food in your saddlebags. Everything fits in this:
http://www.rei.com/product/783287

Makes great one-pot meals and stuff, packs down small and fits in just one little corner of your bike bags.

I used to have this little stove that burned gasoline I used on my bike trips.  I think I got it at a army surplus store.  We would just drain a bit out of the bike each night.  I don't have it anymore and I am sure it was not the safest but we never had any issues.  I like eating good no matter what trip I am on so I am willing to pack and carry a little extra.

[BeSeeingYou]

SRUST - Nice place.  We do our winter camping in the Chattahoochee Nat'l Forest in the North Georgia Mountains.  Beautiful place on a nice trout stream.  Trust me, it really does get cold.  Many years it has been in the 10 - 14 Fahrenheit range.  The older I get, I hope and pray for a little warmer though.  We were blanketed with 4 -5 " of heavy , wet snow yesterday.
I have started using a couple of Dutch ovens in addition to my campstoves.  They make fine peach cobbler.

I winter camped in the BWCA in my youth.  We would ski/snowshoe towing sleds and spend up to 5-6 days in temps from -10 to +30 as the usual range.  Now I only go up there when the water is soft.