Author Topic: Why are my points sparking?  (Read 1870 times)

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tommy54

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Why are my points sparking?
« on: February 09, 2010, 12:15:12 PM »
Hi,
I picked up a 78 550k the other day and am trying to straighten it out.  It only runs with full choke.  It didn't come with the boots from the airbox to the carbs, so I know this would cause a lean condition, but it should still run better than this without the boots.  I pulled the points cover off, cleaned up the points and started it up.  The points were sparking.  Have the condensors gone bad?  The bike starts with one kick now, but needs full choke all the time, and I can hear it misfiring.  Any ideas?

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Why are my points sparking?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 12:22:15 PM »
Quote
The points were sparking.  Have the condensors gone bad?

Some sparking - certainly at idle - is normal. Chances that both condensors have gone bad at the same time, are little.

Quote
The bike starts with one kick now, but needs full choke all the time, and I can hear it misfiring.  Any ideas?
I would start with verifying jets and especially the slow jets are cleared.
Check if there are no airleaks between carbs and head (do a search).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 12:27:55 PM by Deltarider »
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tommy54

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Re: Why are my points sparking?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 12:35:03 PM »
I sprayed brake cleaner on the boots between the carbs and head, and no increase in engine speed.  Where are the slow jets in these carbs?  I took out the mains and cleaned them up.  There is a brass tube next to the main jets that looks like it would be the slow jet, but I don't know how to take it out.  It doesn't seem to be threaded, and I think the manual doesn't really mention it though they do show it in the diagram. I sprayed air and carb cleaner through those brass tubes. I couldn't get a wire to go through any of them, but the carb clean seemed to shoot through it pretty well.  I'll try setting the point gap and timing and see if that helps the points.  As far as I know the condensors only exist to stop the arcing between the points(so the points don't wear out right away).  Maybe setting them properly will clear this up.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Why are my points sparking?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 12:46:29 PM »
On PDstyle carbs you can yank them out. Make sure you don't damage them in the process. TT has described how to do it more than once. It's essential these jets are inspected, especially if bike has sat for a while.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 12:52:41 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Why are my points sparking?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 01:24:40 PM »
The points may need to be "dressed" which basically means to smooth them out and remove and points on the face and burn marks.

I had a set that the face on one developed a point while the other developed a pit that the point went into. This caused a lot of sparking and if it gets to bad, will cause the coil to not saturate properly.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Why are my points sparking?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 01:49:55 PM »
Sparking is normal.  Back EMF from coil.  When the energy field in the coil collapses, both the primary and secondary make a voltage spike.  I think its about 400V at the points. The Condenser (capacitor) reduces the current (and heating) from this arcing and extends point life.  The condensers also help make higher spark current.

The PD carbs were EPA carbs.  In conjunction with the stock exhaust, much leaner mixtures were possible, and the carb was made to provide that.  EPA didn't want users to frick with the slow jets, so they became swagged in types.  I don't think Honda ever offered replacements separately. You want new slow jets?  Buy a whole carb body.
Anyway, they can be removed.  Grab them with pliers, padded with leather and pull them straight out. The orifice inside the tube is only about 0.014 ish. in diameter.
Not recommended to make it the hole bigger unless you are going to abandon an air filter for the bike.
Anyway , you must see light through them, or you can not expect fuel to flow through them.  Probably should verify the pilot circuit in the carb, too.  There are 4 entries/exits. The pilot jet, the pilot air jet, the carb bore exit, and the adjust screw hole.  There is an o ring a washer behind that screw spring.  Don't lose//damage them.)
Unless the air you have is quite dirty/smoky, it is difficult to "prove" each of the above holes connects to all the others.  Which is why I use liquid carb cleaner to observe flow from each while blocking two.

If the pilot jets/circuits are blocked, choke forces fuel from the main/throttle valve, in order to keep the engine running.

Don't expect these carbs to idle well or give a decent throttle response without any air filter.  The exhaust restriction is less critical, but still a factor in the proper fuel mixture settings of these carbs, and in idle smoothness.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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tommy54

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Re: Why are my points sparking?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2010, 03:51:52 PM »
I went through the carbs again, this time pulling the slow jets out.  I blasted everything clean with air and carb cleaner.  I put them back on the bike and a couple carbs quickly overflowed.  Is this kind of normal?  This happened the first time I took them off, a couple taps on the bowl freed up the float and it quit overflowing.  The floats don't stick anymore, just when the carbs are first put back on the bike.       Anyway, the bike runs better at idle now.  I had to fiddle with the carb to head boots.  they seem like they arent quite lined up.  I'll mess with them some more.  Still have plenty of issues though, number 1 cylinder doesn't seem to be firing.  I'll try to figure that out tomorrow.    I cleaned up the points, still a little sparking.  The sparks seem to be right before or after a misfire.  Who knows, tomorrow is another day.