Topic: Hush's latest quizz

[Hush]

Hmm strangely enough the bike is playing ball with me today, using the car battery it is turning over.
Unfortunately the car battery was low so I will recharge it and see if I can get the bike to gurgle.

[bryanj]

Sounds like bad connections and battery that one

[Hush]

I fitted a new earth wire from the frame to the engine which has helped reduce the heating of the other wires.
Still stuck with a bike that won't fire, I take the plugs out and it spins fine, put them back in and it barely turns over!!!!!??
Driving me nuts this bike, I've never had one vex me like this, and get this, a week ago as I was hand turning the alternator the bike fired up and I had to shut it down??

[Hush]

Logic tells me that if the bike turns over happily without the spark plugs in but fails to turn over when they are fitted......that somehow I have still got the DOHC timing stuffed up and at some stage in the cycle both valves are closed as the piston travels upward thereby creating too much compression.
I know this has to happen at some stage for ignition to occur but maybe I have timed it on the wrong stroke?
Anyhow that's my theory, may have to remove the top again (6th time) and recheck my settings in alignment with the timing marks on the crank.

[Frankenkit]

at what point is Jaffa going to start getting pissed and make you take her bike to the shop?

[Hush]

Well she's finished the painting and it looks great (for a girls bike)
I went to have a chat with my friendly bike wrecker/mechanic today, he listened then said "well it looks like you've covered everything" so I said "but it still wont start"!
He gave me 4 tests to run when I got home to track the problem, I only got to #2 when the problem became evident!
You see that's the problem with being too close to the problem is you often can't see the wood for the trees!
That's when a friendly chat to someone without an attachment to the bike.
OK the reason the bike spins great with the plugs out but barely turns over with them in is.....that bloody alternator is slipping again!!!!!!
Amazingly the JBWeld did not take hold firm enough so I'm back to finding a way of "permanently" attaching that damned alternator.

[scunny]

try the tin foil treatment Hush, nothing to lose

[Hush]

Ya reckon it works?

[Hush]

Had a good look at the alternator last night, brought it inside for a better examination, the scoring is not as bad as I first thought so I might try "lapping" the alternator and the main shaft again and see if I can get a better fit.
Still not too sure on your tinfoil fix Scunny but I may get desperate enough to try it.
I have a feeling that the securing bolt has streached as part way along the threads feel sharp, wonder what the chances are of finding another one of those?

[scunny]

I've used the tin foil method before, it increases the size on the taper and conforms to any scoring. wether it will work in your case !!!
have you tried a washer on the bolt ?

[Hush]

Spot on Scunny, had a few more failures this morning then I retried with a different spring washer and didn't use any Loctite this time and it worked!
It stopped the alternator spinning without engaging the motor, now the motor is actually turning over...but it flattened the battery so they are back on charge.
Motor yet to "fire" up but I have spark/compression/gas so a little more fiddling should work it out.

[Retro Rocket]

Sounds like you took the scenic route with this one Hush, glad to hear its all back on track....

Mick

[Hush]

Scenic! Mick I went around the bloody world mate!
Almost got it to burble tonight, tomorrow I'll recheck the points and timing, it should try to start up quicker than it is.
A horrible thought just occured, what the Hell am I gonna do with my spare 20 hours every week when this is finished?

[Retro Rocket]

Scenic! Mick I went around the bloody world mate!
Almost got it to burble tonight, tomorrow I'll recheck the points and timing, it should try to start up quicker than it is.
A horrible thought just occured, what the Hell am I gonna do with my spare 20 hours every week when this is finished?

 

Mick

[Hush]

Yup that did occur to me too.
And plenty of gat practice.

[Hush]

Scrub that, the spiders are safe on my gat case for a while yet.
The bike threw the alternator off again!
I'm getting desperate enough to even try Scunny's tinfoil trick.
Will chat to a few "experts" tomorrow and see what the concensus is, surely I'm not the first person to strike this problem?
Obviously no glue is hard enough not to be ripped off by the throw of the engine at start up, I have a sneaky suspicion that the holding bolt has streached and it's thread is no longer able to remain in place as the threads are very sharp to the touch.

[Hush]

OK have consulted with those in the know about these things, I need to "lap" the alternator and the shaft more using coarse valve grinding paste then working back to a finer paste.
I understand what I'm being told to do I just don't understand how it works?
In my book, shiny metal bits when added together slip on each other they do not grab!
Apparently I'm wrong in this assumtion too......but I still don't get it.
Alright I'm off to the shed to grind down the two offending areas until they are like friggen mirrors.

[myhondas]

think of it this way... if you take two rough pieces of glass and put a little water on one and then put the other piece of glass on top, lift it back up and it comes all by itself. Do that with two smooth pieces of glass, and they will stick together like they were glued. Surface tension.

[bryanj]

Lap em in till they are even grey, dont need shiny. Also FIT NEW BOLT

[Hush]

Have lapped them smooth (and grey) but a new bolt for a 1982 Suzuki is a tall order, unlike Hondas the people at Suzuki didn't expect their products to last this long.
I've Locktited the bolt and will leave it all for tonight, I'll see in the morning if all my work has been in vain again.

[Retro Rocket]

Hi Hush, any bolt supply shop should be able to get you a high tensile bolt to fit..

Mick

[Hush]

Cheers Mick I know just the people to sell me one then.

[bryanj]

Yep, it will be a standard thread, not even Suzuki were nutty enough to go special and take the cost hit! Just make sure you get the strongest available mate and torque it up to BT+10% but not as far as till it breaks and back 1/4 turn----a second engineer on ship got really peeved when i followed those instructions that he gave me

[Hush]

3 steps forward 2 steps back!
OK looks like (cross fingers) the slipping alternator has been cured using only 3 hours of my time slowly lapping the two surfaces together....I still fail to see how this works but it does, like bumble bees flying.
Anyhow this major step forward is wiped out by the realisation that maybe just maybe I have bent all the farken valves when I miss-timed it originally!!!!!
Anyone know of a sure test other than removing the whole top end again???
It just feels wrong and I can't get the electronic timing right no matter what I do!
It tried to start a couple of times today but if the valves are bent then it wont run too well anyway.
I guess testing for compression is the best way to check for bent valves, if there is sh*t all comp then the valves will not be sealing...right?
Apart from my cronic and so far groundless belief that I have truly screwed up big time, the bike still seems to have a lot of compression!   And why does the main earth wire keep heating up??

[Hush]

One thing I do know is that it is not seized, if I remove the spark plugs it turns over like a bought one, put them back in and it cranks a lot slower....I'm hoping that's compression.
However turning the points side of the motor over using a socket and ratchet is becoming harder to do, can spin it easily with the starter motor though?
This bike is truly doing my head in, time to shut the shed door and climb into the spa pool with a cold one.