Topic: Hush's latest quizz

[bryanj]

The main earth wire heating up would suggest either
(1) its not getting good contact at either end or
(2) the starter is drawing way too much current.

Is the top end getting loadsa oil?

[Hush]

Hard to tell Bryan but when I was cranking it over with the rocker cover off it was being squirted quite liberally with oil.
Do you think my top end might be running dry?
I rebuilt the earth wire while I had the motor out as it looked a bit scruffy, I'll get some better bits and make up a whole new earth for it.

[bryanj]

Dont forget to scrape off some of the nice new paint where it bolts on (and the bsttery earth

[Hush]

Give ya self a chocolate fish Bryan, top end very dry.
Got a new earth strap from the wreckers, it was a CB650 power cable but with the red +ve rubbers removed it looks just like a very grunty earth strap.
Bike still not starting and I think I'm still looking at points and timing not being spot on.

[Hush]

  I'M GOING TO PULL THE HEAD OFF, PROBABLY WITH MY TEETH AND PROBABLY WITHOUT REMOVING THE HEAD STUDS FIRST!!!!!!

It's either seizing or the valves are bent or the pistons got accidentally micropined when I got the timing wrong originally.......whatever I need to know what's going on in there so it's coming OFF!!!

[Hush]

Took a chill pill and had a longer harder look at the problem, I think my DOHC cams are still fitted wrongly!!!!
After all this time, it comes down to not having the correct manual to check it from so I'm working from one I bought covering GS400's and one I downloaded wich covers GSX400's but is a bit too new.
Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
Anyhow I'm back in the shed have reset the cams on a different timing mark and we'll see how we go.

[Frankenkit]

I am still confident in my suggestion.

[Hush]

Reset the cams to where I believe they should be but bike no closer to starting and becoming hard to turn over using the points cam bolt, electric starter spins it but only if the plugs are out?
I'm having nightmares about bent and broken valves and hammered pistons.
Almost feels like the bearing shells are grinding!!??
Guess the only way to sort this out is to take the head off again and have a look, was desperately trying to avoid that as it is a total pita......anyhow something aint right in there and as I'm still on holiday and the weather is supposed to be crap tomorrow it seems the Gods of motorcycling are giving me a few hints as to what I should be doing.
Worst comes to worse I will just hoik the engine out again and strip it back till I find the problem.

[Frankenkit]

aww geez Hush, I'm sorry stuff's going that way.   You'll figure this bugger out soon.

[Hush]

So I got a little bit serious with the bike today.
With the head off I could see that the pistons are fine and the valves are sweet as too?
Once the cams were removed the engine spun freely and with the head removed I could turn the alternator with one finger and the pistons went up and down so not quite sure what "IS" binding the motor up.
I'm going to replace all the bits and keep checking as I go at which point the motor locks up.

Oh the bird aviary that Jaffa is building is just an extra shot as sometimes she forgets just how far she has come with some of her projects once they are finished.

[Hush]

Put the head back on and the cams, it all seems lose enough now?
Will delve deeper tomorrow.

[MJL]

depends how sloppy it is. locktite bearing retainer might work, or as I did to a briggs and straton motor, super glue.

You gotta watch it, the green loctite is permanent stuff. A friend, as an experiment, used green loctite on a nut and bolt. After it dried he ripped the threads off the bolt trying to unscrew the nut.

[Hush]

It seems this is a recognised problem with the 82 GSX400/250 as in the updated glossary at the end of the manual it recommends replacing the hexagonal bolt and spring washer that holds the alternator on with a flange bolt without the spring washer, also increasing torque from 65-72 lbf to 80-94 lbf".
Wonder if I need to order a special bolt from Suzuki or just some specialist supply group here in NZ?

Green Loctite? we only seem to have red....something else to look for.

[Hush]

Alrighty today I checked out the Suzuki dealer for a new bolt, they advised me that not only would it be 2 weeks wait from Japan but it would cost big $$$.
Anyhow I popped down to see my friendly bike wrecker as I owed him a can of Coke and $5 for an earth strap from last week, just on the off chance I showed him the old alternator securing bolt and explained the upgrade had a fixed plate.
He rummaged through a box of alternator bolts and on his second try found just the right one...no charge!   see a free can of Coke goes a long way.
So on it went and with a touch of Loctite I'm leaving it to set overnight, fingers crossed it works this time.

[Hush]

I don't believe it, the "blue" ($2 a tube) Locktite and the new bolt tourqued to about "break my wrist" level have worked the magic, the thing does not give way when I press the starter!
Now if it would only start!

[Retro Rocket]

One small step for Hush, one large step for Jaffa's bike.....

Mick

[Hush]

New developments, I had a mate take a look at the GSX last night and he checked my timing(was spot on) And the cams, spot on again.
He spotted that once the alternator was torqued on to the shaft, that because I had removed so much metal by lapping the tapered shaft, it now was forcing the starter drive gear into the engine casing!!!!!!
So the only solution is to remove 1.2 mm from the drive gear so it will all fit up nicely and not snag.
It explains a Hell of a lot that I couldn't figure out on my own and I would never have discovered without help.
More info once I find an auto shop to lathe off the 1.2mm.

[Hush]

Jaffa took her starter clutch gear to an auto machine shop and they are skimming 1.2mm off it for $25.
I have the weekend off so will get a chance to rebuild it, probably Sunday as Saturday looks like great SOHC4 riding day for CB650's.

[Hush]

FCUK

The damn thing still gets forced onto the motor?
Looks like too much metal got removed when I lapped the shaft and the alternator!
I better go look for a new alternator that has more metal meat in it....FCUK!

[Retro Rocket]

Unlucky mate, maybe that is mainly the problem, if it has been spinning for a while it may have worn more off the alternator than the crank....

Mick

[Hush]

Cheers Mick, yeah getting a replacement alternator with some more meat on it would be easier than replacing a crank.

[Hush]

Hallelujah, I picked up a replacement alternator rotor ($30) from my friendly bike wrecker and it worked first time.
It's like winning the lottery ha ha.
What is the odds of actually getting the part you want from the only bike wrecker for 200 miles?
On a sad note, my wrecker is selling up and finding another job as the income he gets from his wrecking business doesn't provide a decent income.
He has a goldmine in parts, I told him to stick it all on EBay and Trademe.

[Retro Rocket]

Well done mate.....now stop talking and put the bloody thing in.....i can hear Jaffa's anxiety from here....

Mick

[Hush]

Bike is all back together Mick, sitting in the driveway for when she finishes work.
Found it had a duff plug too, luckily he GSX takes same as my 650.
It is soooo tuned now since I tweeked everything while mucking with the starter and my mate set the points and timing, one push of the start button and it roars into life.
We might go for an evening ride about 6pm, not too far as a bike has to earn my trust before I take it long distance and pushing even that lightweight home aint something I would look forward to.

[bryanj]

Great to hear you got there eventually mate, its a bugger when you get the one problem that aint a common fault.

Sounds like that one bolt was the begining of it which is probably why it was changed in production, the Japs are pretty good at sorting problems but not so good at telling us about them