Author Topic: Guitar fret scales and building (Read 3053 times)

Inigo Montoya · « **on:** February 18, 2010, 10:15:03 AM »

There are a couple of different fret scales out there and I was just wondering what other players thought of the different sizes. I think the main ones are 24 3/4 and 25.5 inches.

Also, anyone here actually build their own guitars? I am looking at buying a new semi hollow body and I got the idea of attempting to make my own guitar. Not doing it to save money of course as you can buy a decent cheap guitar for a few hundred clams. But I think it would be something fun for a hobby and something to play with just too see how different changes affect the sound. hell I saw a vid on a semi hollow and the tone difference in the wood before and after chambering was significant.

simon#42 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:33:51 AM »

i prefer the shorter scale length , makes the big stretches slightly easier , also the string tension is lower so i can use thicker strings for better tone without to much pain . this is on an acoustic , electric players may have a different view

the technological J · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:37:19 AM »

i would defiantly do some research in to what kind of sound u like.... and what kind of playing you'll be doing if your gonna go up the neck alto i think the smaller frets would be a problem but if your doing alot of rythem* (how do u spell that?) and like a more tonier tenor sound that might be the way to go... wait rhythm? i dunno

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:55:45 AM »

Well I am just playing to myself and the long stretches do kinda suck. Lighter tension would be kinda nice, easier on the fingers.
I am mainly looking at electric playing.

domer · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:26:30 AM »

building your own is some serious #$%*... my old teacher made a few acoustic and electric guitars. he would spend months just looking for the right chunk of wood to begin with. i cant recall the details, but if the grain wasnt PERFECT, he would pass. i made an electric bass in high school. just the body with an ibanez neck, mahogany with a flamed maple top... looked pretty, tuned perfectly. but imo just didnt sound right. its tuff work, i couldnt even imagine trying a hollow body! if you have the patientce go for it! i sure as hell dont!!!
oh and i had to send mine out to a local builder to have the cut out for the neck done, one other guy in my class did his own and failed.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:47:26 AM »

The neck seems to be the hardest area. I was thinking of doing a different style joint. You have through body, glued, and bolt. I was going to router a hole into the body and then shape the end of the neck to slip into the hole and then bolt the thing. But I am just contemplating here on the whole thing.

domer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:26:21 PM »

the issue i ran into with the cutout was the fact that it has to be dead on perfect. and building your own neck is a whole other ball park (i originally wanted to do through body) but after some research i realized it was out of reach. the nice part about the solid body was i was able to get my wood glued and planed, and just sent off the whole assembly with my design drawn on it (ibanez neck included). i think it was $40 12 years ago, but it was a perfect cut that i was able to base the the bridge and electronics off of. im curious to see where you go with this... hollow body would be tuff but cool as hell to be able to say you made it!

333 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:38:08 PM »

Domer is right in that building one from scratch is extremely difficult at best. But building a kit is much easier. A wood working tool company that also has guitar kits is what is in order.

http://grizzly.com/

About the middle of the first page is their 2010 catalog. Guitars start on page 370.

azuredesign · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:40:44 PM »

Building a guitar, especially a hollow body from scratch is a big task, but it can be done. There are a few books that would be helpful, one I know of is Bill Cumpiano's, but also books like the Super 400 are helpful as the show different archtop bracing designs. However there is probably a newsgroup for guitar builders that would be great given how much help this newsgroup has been to me. You might want to consider why you want a hollow body guit sonically if you are thinking of bolting in a neck. I'd say try to pattern the guitar you build from one that you like. I'd also say that your first guitar will not be as good as the fifth or fiftieth you make. It might be fun if you have a minute to take a look at how Les Paul built his "log". He wanted it solid under the pick ups to increase sustain while retaining a hollow body feel. it's also good to remember that many 'hollow' guitars like the Gibson es-335 are not really hollow, but also solid under the pickups, bridge and tailpiece. Good luck and have fun, it's a cool thing to do!

TwoTired · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:55:43 PM »

I have several books on guitar building. I've done work on guitars. But, haven't yet built one from scratch. Been to busy building RC planes.

I built a strat from a Saga kit a while back, the small fret radius at the frets near the body would "cut" with the string bending I do. I did buy a Warmoth neck to put on it. It has a compound fretboard radius; small radius at the nut and large radius at the body join. I decided I will either make a strat body for the new neck or buy a used one to put it on, as I replaced the pickups with really nice ones that I love the sound of, and I want a floyd rose whammy instead of the standard whammy the Saga came with.

Anyway, you asked about fret scales, and here are some you may wish to employ.

TwoTired · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:00:36 PM »

next page...

Rocking-M · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:10:55 PM »

This is the only one I've built to date. Made it in 1987.
Big body. Great tone. I still have my d body molds and what not.

Fret scales, really only 4 basic ones I think.
Oh yea, you'd do well to buy a fret rule.

Steel String 25 11/32" and 24 27/32"

Standard Classic Flamenco 25 21/32"

Spanish Long Pattern Classic 26 1/8"

This is the rule I used.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:12:57 PM »

I am actually wanting to do a semi hollow like a es-335 so not an acoustic. Thats why I had the idea of routing the joint into the body wood and then inserting the neck then bolting it down.
I have nothing to base this on, but it would seem that might help the sustain.

Rocking-M · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:19:35 PM »

Quote from: Inigo Montoya on February 18, 2010, 11:47:26 AM

The neck seems to be the hardest area. I was thinking of doing a different style joint. You have through body, glued, and bolt. I was going to router a hole into the body and then shape the end of the neck to slip into the hole and then bolt the thing. But I am just contemplating here on the whole thing.

mine is a tapered dovetail joint. The dovetail has to be cut right and then you have no need to bolt.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:31:53 PM »

It might be an option. My idea was either a thru body and then put on the wings or a some sort of bolt. My idea is to keep as much fret access as possible and to keep the heel to minimum if possible. I will most likely have some trial and error I am sure so I will use cheap woods till I figure things out.

Rocking-M · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:33:48 PM »

Quote from: Inigo Montoya on February 18, 2010, 02:31:53 PM

It might be an option. My idea was either a thru body and then put on the wings or a some sort of bolt. My idea is to keep as much fret access as possible and to keep the heel to minimum if possible. I will most likely have some trial and error I am sure so I will use cheap woods till I figure things out.

hey, the trial and error is what makes it fun!

azuredesign · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:41:20 PM »

Quote from: Rocking-M on February 18, 2010, 02:10:55 PM

This is the only one I've built to date. Made it in 1987.
Big body. Great tone. I still have my d body molds and what not.

Cool looking guitar. I like the bridge placement, somewhat higher than the norm. That's got to push some extra air! How is the top braced?

azuredesign · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:53:42 PM »

Quote from: Inigo Montoya on February 18, 2010, 02:31:53 PM

It might be an option. My idea was either a thru body and then put on the wings or a some sort of bolt. My idea is to keep as much fret access as possible and to keep the heel to minimum if possible. I will most likely have some trial and error I am sure so I will use cheap woods till I figure things out.

I think bolting would allow for a smaller heel, but do you think a bolted neck causes filtering of lower frequencies more than a set neck? Maybe that's a good thing where clarity is concerned. The SG body shape offers pretty good high fret access with a fairly thin heel. I think if you're going that way, the tenon has to be long enough to offer good stability at the neck and body junction. The hardest part of making a neck through seems to be getting the neck angle correct from the get go, as you really have only one shot for getting it right. If you were to bolt the neck to the body, would you do so through the pick up rout? If you did so from the front to the back of the neck/body, it seems like the body would have to be thick at the heel which would make the neck body joint clunkier than it sounds like you want.

Rocking-M · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2010, 03:49:07 PM »

azure, the top is x braced. That may still a bit of the volume. Top is sitka spruce, sides and back mahogany, neck mahogany with
ebony fret board. I had to refret it last month to straighten the neck a bit. I didn't use an adjustable truss rod but she seems fine now.

azuredesign · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2010, 05:02:06 PM »

As far as I know Martin never used an adjustable rod. Good job on the refret! I have 60's Strat that has a backbow. The only way to straighten it was to pull the frets straighten the neck and recut the fret slots in the area of the backbow. That and using .011 or 12 strings has kept it straight for the last 24 years that I've owned it.

bucky katt · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2010, 05:38:09 PM »

3 of my 4 electrics and the acoustic are all the 24 3/4 scale, 21 frets. the SG is the 22 fret 25 1/2 scale. i like the length of the short ones but i really prefer the wider neck profile on the set neck SG

domer · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2010, 08:29:41 PM »

hmm... just a thought, since i cant play for #$%* (i play bass and i dont do that well), why not start with a solid through neck body, route out and add a nice top? im no luthier but could theoretically make a nice holow body... maybe...

grumpy · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:03:01 PM »

I've built a few. A hollow body can be pretty easy to build or they can be very difficult.
A flat top hollow body electric like a Danelecto can be made from scratch in a few hours using plywood, masonite, and a bit of lumber. Really fun to do.

Look here:

http://reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=33114

bucky katt · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2010, 12:04:57 AM »

i DO love my Danelectro Hodad guitar. what a sound

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2010, 06:13:37 AM »

Domer, I thought about that and that and aside from the neck, that is how most flat semi hollows are made from what I have found. Take a solid board and screw a template to it. route the chambers and take the template off and then shape the body and top and there you go. (simplified obviously)

I thnk I might go with the gibson style 24 3/4 neck but I am going to try one out first to see. My charvette is 25.5.
The guitar I want to buy has a 24 3/4 neck so I will get to see which I like better.

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Author Topic: Guitar fret scales and building (Read 3053 times)