Topic: Pros and Cons: Holley vs Edelbrock (Carter) Carburetors?

[bill440cars]

     Which would YOU prefer and WHY?

           Seems to ME like the Holley responds quicker, but is pretty complicated (compared to the Edelbrock) to setup for any particular engine.   

      Like to hear what you all have to say on the matter from YOUR experience and/or what YOU all have seen.

                                  Thank you, Bill
       

[6pkrunner]

Oh wow - talk about  kicking, beating, jumping on and punting a hornet's nest. Put on your helmets and duck and cover. You may as well have asked who is the one real God, prove a Honda is better than a Kawasaki, or redhead over brunette.
Just my $0.02 - the Holley has a greater tuning range, will allow greater throttle response and will indeed make more peak HP. The Carter has greater tractability and will forgive more sins against it. And a Carter can go years without being touched - not so with the Holley. As for my experience I've had Mopars for the last 36 years and have run more Holleys and Carter than I can count. The opinions above are from my dealings with them.

Jesus Bill you really don't pull any punches do you? Helmets on!

[bill440cars]

Oh wow - talk about  kicking, beating, jumping on and punting a hornet's nest. Put on your helmets and duck and cover. You may as well have asked who is the one real God, prove a Honda is better than a Kawasaki, or redhead over brunette.
Just my $0.02 - the Holley has a greater tuning range, will allow greater throttle response and will indeed make more peak HP. The Carter has greater tractability and will forgive more sins against it. And a Carter can go years without being touched - not so with the Holley. As for my experience I've had Mopars for the last 36 years and have run more Holleys and Carter than I can count. The opinions above are from my dealings with them.

Jesus Bill you really don't pull any punches do you? Helmets on!

           Whoa! I didn't realize that it could be so controversional. I just knew what I had experienced and wondered about leaving well enough alone on the GTX or considering change. I'd had several Carters, but only had 1 Holley before this one.

          Thank you for YOUR input Mike. Now, I huess we'll duck and see what happens next.

[6pkrunner]

This very topic has been the cause of bannings and quittings on one board at least. And of that fallout only one of 10 possibly more members has returned. Straw that broke the camel's back - maybe, but it was very animated before the thread was deleted and suspensions/quitting handed out.

[bill440cars]

This very topic has been the cause of bannings and quittings on one board at least. And of that fallout only one of 10 possibly more members has returned. Straw that broke the camel's back - maybe, but it was very animated before the thread was deleted and suspensions/quitting handed out.

           Whoa! Hard to believe things would go THAT far (but, I'm not doubting what you are saying. Just amazed!)

[mark]

I like the fact that there are a gazillion little bits available to tune every system of a Holley just so...

I also like the fact that the Carter has no gaskets "below the waterline".

[domer]

edelbrock carbs are crap. imo. holley is the way to go if your budget minded, if not get a demon and call it a day! my chevelle came with an edelbrock and gave me nothing but hell  (never did figure out what the problem was)... bought a well used holley 750 and most of my problems went away with some time consuming tuning. borrowed a demon 650, and what a #$%*ing difference... god i miss that car... 

[TwoTired]

edelbrock carbs are crap. imo. holley is the way to go if your budget minded, if not get a demon and call it a day! my chevelle came with an edelbrock and gave me nothing but hell  (never did figure out what the problem was)...

Well, IMO, that disqualifies you as an authority or reference.
You were unable to fix your test case of one, and side stepped the problem by replacing the entire unit instead of finding the flaw in your carb (be it damage, dirt, or design, you will never know).

bought a well used holley 750 and most of my problems went away with some time consuming tuning. borrowed a demon 650, and what a #$%*ing difference... god i miss that car... 

You could have fixed the original problem by replacing the entire car, too.  Oh wait, you did replace the entire car.... 

[bucky katt]

the edelbrock carb is going to be more trouble free in the long run with no gaskets below fuel level. really easy to change out jets and metering rods too for tuning. i ran a holley on both 5.0 litre motors and the 514 big block i had in the mustang but that car was torn down at the middle and end of racing season here and only did maybe 2000 street miles a year. edelbrock has an 800 cfm carb that would be just right for a street driven 440.  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1813/

[wannabridin]

i have an edelbrock 600 4v in my 66 mustang 289.  not much performance work, about 225 horse or so.  it's more carb than the motor needs, but i got it for cheap, and it's better than the 2v that was on there!!  i haven't touched the thing in 8 years and it fires right up once a week or so, and she drives and idles very well all the time.  great carb IMO, but i have no experience with holley, so don't take my word for much.  just stating what i do know...

[domer]

well i wont lie, replaced the edelbrock cause i could never get it right. yup i gave up. did i know what i was doing? hell no! what i do know is that after trying and trying, i finally listened to the opinions of others who did know what they were doing and went with holley. i rebuilt the edelbrock, which seemed a little easier than the holley but i could never get it right. rebuilt the holley and after some jetting and a/f adjustments i never had a problem.
am i an expert... no. thats just my opinion from my experience.

[bill440cars]

        Hey, I appreciate ALL of the input here and hope you all realize that I am not trying to start a feud over the two carbs. Only problem I have with the Holley that is on there now, is not the carb itself. it's the cheap choke cable that the P.O. put on there. After you put on the choke, you have to pop the hood and pull it back off! The carb performs well. Now, I have to say that after a buddy told me that the Holleys (in his opinion) were bad about "washing down the cylinders" and THAT THOUGHT is in the back of my mind, everytime I start it up.

        I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. I sure do like the way it revs, when asked to! Comment has been made about whether the 750 Holley was big enough for my 440 or not and it may not be, but it works well AND drinks enough gasoline as it is.

          Thinking about selling the 83' GPZ and see about one of those Keisler 5 or 6 sp trans, to help with the mileage, give the engine a break while cruising down the hwy AND still have the UMP! when I want to feel the Power! Shame I can't make a deal with them and just swap the bike for the trans. I'd even deliver the bike and puickup the trans.

[TwoTired]

well i wont lie,... am i an expert... no. thats just my opinion from my experience.

Don't feel bad. The original question simply begged for unsupportable conjecture and vague, meaningless testimonials.  You just took the bait.

Since both Edelbrock/Carter and Holley/clone carbs have been used successfully on thousands (millions) of vehicles, by what metric do you decide if one is better than the other, without even a cursory glance at application, or the application required parameters?

The thread at the outset reminded me of the school yard kids poking at a dog pile, just to see the flies get agitated and buzz around wildly.  You can expect the same level of "conclusive, scientific test results" here, I imagine.

So which is best? Coke or Pepsi? ... A broken right finger or a broken left finger?
Ford or Chevy.
Mopar or Mack?
John Deer or Caterpillar?
Honda or Toyota?
Betty Crocker or Pilsbury?
Trojan or Paradise?

Consumer brand loyalty is really a very stupid concept.  As none of your favorite "trusted" brands have any loyalty to their customer base, and will change their product at the whim of increased profits, even if it means a different selection set of "customers".  (Yup, my old 84 Toyota was a really reliable car without accelerator problems.  My even older 55 Chevy was a great car.  My 89 Chev Camaro is a piece of engineered Sh!T.) Do you think any brand will change back to the old product or product recipe/process to satisfy 100 old customers rather than sell to 10,000 new customers (plus the old ones who can't tell the difference)?

Sigh...
I may have said too much...

Maybe that dog pile is safe to land on again?   

[domer]

  ha ha

[mark]

So which is best? Coke or Pepsi?

It used to be Coke until that 'New Coke' business. 'Classic' just doesn't cut it.

add an ice cube or three and Coke goes to water instantly.

Pepsi cans are a nice patriotic red, white, and blue.

Coke cans are commie red.

 

[TwoTired]

Coke cans are commie red.

So what's this?  The Brit version?

[Inigo Montoya]

Funny how he says brand loyalty is stupid but brand hatred seems to work just fine for him.

[Don R]

I like the AVS carter or Edelbrock, the air valve secondary makes it work on a variety of engines with less tuning. For put it on and forget it, theCarter. For tunability and for horsepower making the Holley is the king. Last year I heard the demons had a falloff in quality, shavings in the carb etc, could be bull, I don't know. I run a quick fuel 1250 dominator style on the race car, it's been great.
 I took an 1850 type 600 holley and put center hung float bowls on it and a secondary plate with removable jets with an air horn to smooth the air entry without milling off the top. It worked so well the guy I loaned it to never gave it back. I had a total of 50 bucks in it.

[TwoTired]

Funny how he says brand loyalty is stupid but brand hatred seems to work just fine for him.

Funny how I never said I hated any brands, but you assumed (and claimed) I did.   

What axe have you to grind?

[dave500]

qjet.

[MRieck]

well i wont lie,... am i an expert... no. thats just my opinion from my experience.

Don't feel bad. The original question simply begged for unsupportable conjecture and vague, meaningless testimonials.  You just took the bait.

Since both Edelbrock/Carter and Holley/clone carbs have been used successfully on thousands (millions) of vehicles, by what metric do you decide if one is better than the other, without even a cursory glance at application, or the application required parameters?

The thread at the outset reminded me of the school yard kids poking at a dog pile, just to see the flies get agitated and buzz around wildly.  You can expect the same level of "conclusive, scientific test results" here, I imagine.

So which is best? Coke or Pepsi? ... A broken right finger or a broken left finger?
Ford or Chevy.
Mopar or Mack?
John Deer or Caterpillar?
Honda or Toyota?
Betty Crocker or Pilsbury?
Trojan or Paradise?

Consumer brand loyalty is really a very stupid concept.  As none of your favorite "trusted" brands have any loyalty to their customer base, and will change their product at the whim of increased profits, even if it means a different selection set of "customers".  (Yup, my old 84 Toyota was a really reliable car without accelerator problems.  My even older 55 Chevy was a great car.  My 89 Chev Camaro is a piece of engineered Sh!T.) Do you think any brand will change back to the old product or product recipe/process to satisfy 100 old customers rather than sell to 10,000 new customers (plus the old ones who can't tell the difference)?

Sigh...
I may have said too much...

Maybe that dog pile is safe to land on again?   

   That would depend on hand dominance Loyd.

[Sam Green Racing]

You put your right hands in you pull your right hands out, in out in out shake it all about, you do the coke a cola and you turn around that's what it Holley about.

Sam.

[MRieck]

You put your right hands in you pull your right hands out, in out in out shake it all about, you do the coke a cola and you turn around that's what it Holley about.

Sam.

You hitting the hard stuff?? 

[Sam Green Racing]

Hard at work mate and thinking about home time while eyeing up the nice new cleaner, very dishy.

Sam.

[bill440cars]

You put your right hands in you pull your right hands out, in out in out shake it all about, you do the coke a cola and you turn around that's what it Holley about.

Sam.

                     

           Sam, YOU definitely have TOO much time on your hands!

                                   WAY too much time!


          Take care, Bill

[Inigo Montoya]

Funny how I never said I hated any brands, but you assumed (and claimed) I did

It was a touch of sarcasm.
Look at the list of honda motorcycles you have. You might have others but that list would indicate a good deal of brand loyalty. Also, since you say brand loyalty is stupid, and the disdain you show for it, kinda indicates brand hatred or at the very least overall brand dislike.

I am sure you see the sarcasm and irony there.

Besides, I doubt there is ANYONE who does not have some amount of brand loyalty. Anything a person buys, they will look at a particular brand first for whatever reason. I think the difference is brand loyalty and BLIND brand loyalty.

[6pkrunner]

You buy something and have good luck with it, you will usually buy the same item again hoping for the same level of success. Why go out for another unknown when your expectations have already be satisfied? When that level of expectation is not met, then you start shopping again. Brand loyalty - level of expectation are the same to me. During the past few decades most people were more than satisfied with the level of service that their Toyotas gave them. They were repeat customers and it made Toyota the largest car manufacturer in the world. Their resolve will now be tested. Conversely GM for decades was one of the pillars in manufacturing. With near market domination they gutted quality for profits. Drove the customers away for the better perceived value in the Asians. Their expectations were met and they stuck.

However for me now price is the single most determining factor. I feel that most stuff is just marketed junk with quality tossed out the window and the "If you don't buy it, someone will" attitude. Most electronics and appliances fall into this category - for me anyway. Yes others have different experiences - the ones I had make me feel this way. And price is also the reason I'll never buy a new car again. Too much depreciation for the privilege of being the first in the seat.

[Inigo Montoya]

You buy something and have good luck with it, you will usually buy the same item again hoping for the same level of success. Why go out for another unknown when your expectations have already be satisfied?

Exactly.

[bill440cars]

You buy something and have good luck with it, you will usually buy the same item again hoping for the same level of success. Why go out for another unknown when your expectations have already be satisfied?

Exactly.

     And THAT'S why I'll probably leave the Holley alone, unless I start experiencing problems (that I can't resolve) or happen upon an incredible deal on a Carter (Edelbrock).

[cruzin69]

Oh Boy. Dont get all ya knickers in a knot.

Ive used both 600 and 750 vac square bore Holleys on my Mopars. They work ok, but Holleys do have a tendancy to "suck the Joose", leak fuel, and get vapour lock.

Ive also used a beat up 383 AVS, and those things work like a charm, just like the are suppose to be there.

But my Favorite carb is the big Ol Scary, Spaceage carb ...the Carter Thermoquad.!!

What a great design with fantastic drivability, brilliant throttle response, excellent fuel useage, never heat soaks or leaks fuel. With the added bonus of that Huge intake noise when the 2 1/4" secondarys open up...If ya dont know what I mean, watch "Blues Brothers" again, and listen to the intake raw of the '74 440 with a thermy.

The TQ can be fiddly, but once its sorted is way ahead of the mainstream Holleys, and on Par with annular race 850s/ Demons etc.
Admittedly, they are all second hand now, but most parts are still available, and make a real headf#$@ statement to everyone, when you open the hood.
Only Problem is they are a Spreadbore carb, so you need an adaptor, or the correct manifold pattern.
I love them and am building a big primary one (440 TQ) for my stroked 340 ,( 360), to put in my 69 Dart again, Should run high 11s with a .508" 3500 stall, 4.1s....High 10s with some sniff.

[bill440cars]

Oh Boy. Dont get all ya knickers in a knot.

Ive used both 600 and 750 vac square bore Holleys on my Mopars. They work ok, but Holleys do have a tendancy to "suck the Joose", leak fuel, and get vapour lock.

Ive also used a beat up 383 AVS, and those things work like a charm, just like the are suppose to be there.

But my Favorite carb is the big Ol Scary, Spaceage carb ...the Carter Thermoquad.!!

What a great design with fantastic drivability, brilliant throttle response, excellent fuel useage, never heat soaks or leaks fuel. With the added bonus of that Huge intake noise when the 2 1/4" secondarys open up...If ya dont know what I mean, watch "Blues Brothers" again, and listen to the intake raw of the '74 440 with a thermy.

The TQ can be fiddly, but once its sorted is way ahead of the mainstream Holleys, and on Par with annular race 850s/ Demons etc.
Admittedly, they are all second hand now, but most parts are still available, and make a real headf#$@ statement to everyone, when you open the hood.
Only Problem is they are a Spreadbore carb, so you need an adaptor, or the correct manifold pattern.
I love them and am building a big primary one (440 TQ) for my stroked 340 ,( 360), to put in my 69 Dart again, Should run high 11s with a .508" 3500 stall, 4.1s....High 10s with some sniff.

 Had a '74 Dodge Royal Monaco (ex Arkansas State Police Car) and the 440 Interceptor had the ol' Thermoquad and, Yes, it DID sound off when you nailed it. Never had to do ANYTHING to that one either.
 

[dave500]

qjet/thermoquad.,i like spreadbores.,keep off adaptor plates though.,use the proper manifold.

[bill440cars]

qjet/thermoquad.,i like spreadbores.,keep off adaptor plates though.,use the proper manifold.

  I hear ya, adapters seem to be the way, but aren't ALWAYS the ticket.