Topic: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe

[Doctor_D]

I imagine you'll see from napoleanb's pics in the HiPo forum the way those pipes need to be set-up. You'll have no ground clearance as is.

Despite how it may look, we've got good ground clearance with the pipes exiting from under the frame the way they're set up here. Cornering clearance looks suspect on pipes 1 and 4, until you look at it with the alternator cover on. That said, I wish they were a bit more tucked-under as shown in some of the photos.

Looking at napoleonb's post and many other photos, I'm now realizing now that each set of 4 into 4's I've seen is different.  They look great and I'm sure they'll sound great and run great, but what a pain.

Still trying to figure out how I want to connect the lower megaphone to the upper megaphone, but it looks like I've found a solution in a picture on page 133 of Mick Duckworth's Honda CB750 book.

[bwaller]

Even with stock pipes the #1&4 header would touch on the track. The stock pipes are tucked in quite a bit more than the way you have those at the moment.

Even if you're not racing, once the suspension is loaded things change quickly re ground clearance.

Nice pipes, and I'm not poking insults, I'm sure they are a lot of work.

[Doctor_D]

Boy am I glad I didn't start modifying the exhaust... Simon, aka Lord Moonpie, has the correct headers winging their way to me as we speak.  Lost two weeks, but what ya gonna do, eh?

Waiting on 3 things to assemble the engine:
M3 slipper cam chain tensioner
Heavy duty cam chain
SKF non-sealed 6304 bearing

In the meantime, I'm checking the install of the APE crank studs.  They require a little attention be paid to correct seating depth, but the instructions from Dynoman are clear and easily understood.





The only other things we might have to do as part of the basic engine buildup is to mill the cylinders to get Mike Rieck's recommended squish.

I won't be able to fire it up until the exhaust goes out to be ceramic coated and the frame comes back from the powder-coaters, so that gives me a few weeks until the Dyna 2000, Dynoman clutch kit, and 520 chain conversion sprockets need to be purchased. Guessing a month to six-weeks until it'll move under it's own power.

[traveler]

Order the ignition stuff now, so it'll come in at the same time as the frame.

Looks good.

~Joe

[jaguar]

looking good.

[Doctor_D]

Hoped my M3 package would come today so I could build the engine over the weekend.  Alas, it did not.

So, triple checked the cleanliness of the oil passages in the cases, and put the rods on the crank. Pretty much all I can do without the cam chain and tensioner.



Stock rods were balanced, shot peened, cryo treated, polished, and fitted with the stronger F2 rod bolts.  New bearings, a little Permatex Ultra Slick engine assembly lube, and a torque wrench... then re-wrapped in bubble wrap, bagged, and shelved awaiting Mark's shipment.

So close...

[Ricky_Racer]

PRETTY rods!!!      RR

[traveler]

Did you order your ignition parts so they will be there when you need them?

Ther's got to be other parts you can work on, instead of waiting for kos to get around to your order.

~Joe

[Doctor_D]

Did you order your ignition parts so they will be there when you need them?

I will on Tuesday.  But that's not something I'm really worried about, because they're in stock and Dynoman has a good record of shipping promptly. Not as sure how Kenny at CycleX is on 520-chain conversion kits.  With my luck, they'll be six-weeks out.

There's got to be other parts you can work on, instead of waiting for kos to get around to your order.

Not really.  Every part has been cleaned, inspected, etc.  Threads have been chased, rings have been gapped... Frame mods are on hold until we get my steering damper, and make it's placement work with my oil-cooler. Want to turn down my rotor, and probably will next week, but I don't need a charging system to fire it up.

[tweakin]

The crank studs are pretty sick and I really dig the TDF flask in the background.  No worries when dealing with Buzz (dynoman) his customer service is second to none.  I emailed him with a tech question yesterday, 4th of July weekend, and he got back to me with in 2 hours.

Your build is epic.

[traveler]

Will this bike be hotter than your Norton?
 
~Joe

[Doctor_D]

The crank studs are pretty sick and I really dig the TDF flask in the background. 

Brought it out in celebration of Saturday morning's opening stage.  A niece put the sparkly sticker on it, and I don't have the heart to remove it - yet.

[Doctor_D]

Will this bike be hotter than your Norton?
 
~Joe

It'll definitely make more HP. Mike Rieck's guessing close to 90 rwhp vs 62 rwhp for the Norton. However, even if we can get the CB's weight down to the low-400's, it'll be nearly 100 lbs heavier. The Norton weighs 318 lbs wet, which would probably even the battle a little bit.

[Doctor_D]

Pretty lame update, but since I've been moaning about them... final three parts for engine assembly arrived this afternoon.



Now if only I had a long weekend to assemble everything.

[jaguar]

90rwhp should make things fun

what are you thinking about doing as far as weight savings?

[Doctor_D]

what are you thinking about doing as far as weight savings?

Weight savings are coming from e-start delete, Li-Ion battery, stripped down wiring harness - should save about 30lbs.  Centerstand, brackets and hardware should be good for 10+. All other brackets as well as the passenger peg loops are also gone.

Before and after on the wheels and rotors has us down another 8lbs. Cut down top triple-tree, alloy clip-ons, and a digital all-in-one gauge will be good for a pound or two. Fenders and sidecovers are worth about 5lbs. We took about 3lbs off the crank and 1lb off the rotor. Master cylinders, front and rear, are a good bit lighter, as are the rearsets when compared to stock footpegs and controls.

We're putting a few things on the bike too: oil cooler, rearset brackets, and gussets.

Best guess is that we'll be down in the 430lb range.  If anyone with experience thinks that's off the mark, please chime in.

[Retro Rocket]

195-6 kilo's sounds realistic, i am aiming for something near that as well, maybe a little more because my wheels are lighter and i should have 90-100 HP as well, maybe a little more.....

Mick

[Sam Green Racing]

Will this bike be hotter than your Norton?
 
~Joe

It'll definitely make more HP. Mike Rieck's guessing close to 90 rwhp vs 62 rwhp for the Norton. However, even if we can get the CB's weight down to the low-400's, it'll be nearly 100 lbs heavier. The Norton weighs 318 lbs wet, which would probably even the battle a little bit.

Dr Dave, looking at a similar spec motor (same cam ect) you can expect between 86 to 90bhp, hope it's the latter. or a bit more. it's looking very nice up to now.

Sam.

[Doctor_D]

Build day arrived yesterday. So we pulled what we thought was everything together, went over the case-halves one more time with compressed-air and carb-cleaner soaked rag.



Except for having to rummage around for bolts that mysteriously went missing between being bagged, cleaned and stored, things went pretty quickly. There were about a dozen fasteners (6x40's, etc.) that weren't anywhere to be found - though I'm sure everything was bagged and labeled.  It's like socks in the dryer - a universal mystery.  All I have to say is that it's a good thing there were parts motors in the shop.



Maybe things went together a bit too fast... (Note: cases sealed up - and something's missing.  Oh, we needed the kickstart when?)  Opened them back up, cleaned off the sealant, luckily we decided to flip through HondaMan's book at this point, which reminded me where the sheet-steel oiling dohicky for the output shaft went.



There sure are a lot of studs on these motors. A couple of false torque readings caused some identical studs to sit higher than others. Remove, clean threads, retorque, check installed length... tedious, but worthwhile.



Pistons, cylinders and base gasket went on to check the squish.  Edges of the pistons are about 0.025 down the bore, so off go the cylinders to be surfaced 0.020 to get us close to zero deck.  Once they're back, we can button up the rest of the motor.  In the meantime, I'll mothball the bottom end and get back to the chassis.

[Doctor_D]

Measured the squish again and found I only needed to take .011 off the cylinders. My machinist turned it around in 4 hours for $55, making it the fastest, cheapest thing on this whole build.

So, tomorrow I hope to tape and paint the head and cylinders with Duplicolor hi-temp flat black, with engine completion scheduled for Saturday.

Cycle-X 520-chain conversion sprockets came today.  Rear looks like alloy on their site, but it's silver-painted steel. Since I own it I'll run it for a while, but I'd prefer an aluminum one. Hard anodized aluminum with an embedded PTFE (can't recall the product name at the moment) wears well with a significant weight reduction.

Waiting on Simon's replacement headers and my steering damper so we can finish frame mods and get it off to be coated.

Tank came back from being stripped, tested, soldered/brazed, and sealed.  Last few bits of paint suggest that it was red and not Flake Sunrise Orange.

As only Candy Sapphire Blue and Flake Sunrise Orange are listed as colors for 1975 F models, I'm left scratching my head.  Is the base coat for Sunrise Orange red, or is it a 1976 Candy Antares Red tank?  Either way, I'm still up in the air on the final tank/oil tank colors (no side-covers, sorry if that bothers you), but I think I want to stick with 1975 colors and repaint the tank accurately.

[sangyo soichiro]

Looking forward to seeing the finished bike. 

[Doctor_D]

Looking forward to seeing the finished bike. 

You and me both.  Probably about a month away, which would put us 6 weeks behind schedule and $3k over budget.

(Come to think of it, sounds eerily like every construction project I've had done on the house.)

[sangyo soichiro]

Looking forward to seeing the finished bike. 

You and me both.  Probably about a month away, which would put us 6 weeks behind schedule and $3k over budget.

(Come to think of it, sounds eerily like every construction project I've had done on the house.)

I know what you mean about being behind schedule and over budget.  I lost steam back in the spring and never fully got it back.  Now I think I'm going to casually finish the bike on MY schedule.  Been a couple weeks since I touched it.  I "broke down" and bought a 2008 Honda CBR 600 RR (sort of wanted one anyway...).  But now I'm waiting for the seller to get the clear title in the mail before I hand over the money and finalize the deal. 

Wait, wait, wait.  Seems like all I do with these bikes.   

[traveler]

Things seem to be progressing well.  If you want an alloy rear sprocket, go through "sprocket specialists"....My rear sprocket is an alloy one from them, and fit/finish is top notch!

~Joe

[Doctor_D]

Blasted and painted the cylinders today.  Couldn't resist mocking up the motor to see if I liked the paint scheme.



I still have to work on my polishing of the alternator and gearshift covers, but am pretty pleased with the look.

Sadly, I only just remembered that we'd had to drill out two large pin dowels needed to complete the assembly. Ordered them from Direct Line tonight.  Usually takes 10 days to get anything from them.