Topic: Starter mystery

[BigBoi]

Hey all,

As some of you know, I've just finished a rebuild on my bike and I'm trying to sort out a few issues, one being the starter.

Quite simply put, it doesn't work. I've got a good charge on the battery, but when I hit the starter, I hear the click and nothing happens. I've tracked it down to a possible short, but want to know what you guys think.

I used my voltage meter to check the voltage on the post which connects to the starter when I push the button. I get no voltage. So, to skip the solenoid, I unhooked the cable to touched it to the other side of the solenoid. Nothing happens, but I checked the voltage and I don't get 12V at the other end of the starter cable (just a bit before entering the starter). I think I might have a short somewhere.

Here's where it gets tricky. I used my volt meter to check the ground connection. I hooked the black side up to the frame, and the other side up to the starters wire going into the starter (see pictures). I beeps when I do so.

Does this mean I have a short?

Also, big question...is there any way to get the starter out without removing the tensioner assembly? I tried, and there doesn't seem to be enough room...even when I use the trick with the long screws in the starter (also see pic). Has anyone managed it?

Thanks

[scottly]

Sounds like an open, not a short. Check the connection between the battery + and the solenoid, the "fat" wire. 

[BigBoi]

Sounds like an open, not a short. Check the connection between the battery + and the solenoid, the "fat" wire. 

The connection at the other side of the solenoid (from the battery) is showing 12V at all times.

[scottly]

Sorry, this doesn't seem to jive: you have 12V going in to the solenoid, and 0V coming out. When you jumped the starter lead directly to the battery lead, at the solenoid, you had 0V. You had no arcing, which you would even with a normal starter, much less a shorted one. You claim there is 12V at the battery lead of the solenoid, under all conditions. Doesn't add up...

[scottly]

D'oh! Check the main Ground connection from the battery to the frame.... Take apart, clean, etc. Bad grounds can REALLY mess with meter readings, especially when using digital meters! I've been bit on the backside more than once...

PS might even relate to your running issues?

[Frostyboy]

A good way to check grounds is to place neg lead of your meter to neg battery post. Place the pos lead of meter on the crankcase somewhere, then switch on ign & press the starter button. Anything you read on the meter will be voltage drop across your ground connections. The secret to finding voltage drops is to ensure that the circuit is loaded. Anything over .5v is certainly going to be an issue.

[scottly]

1+ to everything Frostyboy said.

[BigBoi]

Just so we're clear though...if everything is working correctly, when I hit the starter button, I should be seeing 12V at the starter side of the solenoid right?

To test this, I'm going to remove the starter cable from the solenoid, and hit the starter button. The post should read 12V. When I add the starter cable to the solenoid post and hit it again, I'll record it as well. I'll try and take a video of it.

[scottly]

Do Frosty's test first.

[8 Track]

Are you in neutral?  You said in the other thread that neutral was hard to find and if you're pulling in the clutch while in gear, there's another switch that could be messing things up for you.

[BigBoi]

Are you in neutral?  You said in the other thread that neutral was hard to find and if you're pulling in the clutch while in gear, there's another switch that could be messing things up for you.

There's no safety switch on my K2...shouldn't be a problem. The test I'm going to perform (mentioned above) should rule this out as a possibility. I'll report back with my findings.

[scottly]

You have already verified the solenoid is operating, from the audible "click".

[8 Track]

You have already verified the solenoid is operating, from the audible "click".

True.  Duh.  Where's my sign?

[BigBoi]

I opened up the starter tonight. I don't really like what I saw. (See pics)

Not sure what happened, but this is the source of my issue. My solenoid is just fine. See the last couple of pictures, where the two brushes meet the copper tube. They should both be making direct contact I wouldn't think. The ground is in turn grounding my 12V brush, which is grounding the wire.

Any idea what it's supposed to look like in there?

[scottly]

Other than the crap inside the housing in the first pic, I don't see anything that looks bad. The brushes should be in direct contact, under spring pressure, against the commutator (the copper tube). There should be a specification for the length of the brushes somewhere.

[scottly]

My Clymer 750 manual lists a minimum of .217 in. (5.5 mm) for the starter brush length.