Topic: 76cb550 brake system.

[onesickrace]

hello everyone. ive got a quick question that hopefully, most likely all of you will know the answer too.  i have a 76 cb550 with some front brake issues.  due to a lack of tools, im very limited to working on the bike myself, so ...well, heres maybe my first mistake.... i met with and got to know a local phoenix area bike mechanic, felt comfortable taking my bike to him to fix the squeaky brake problem.  as far as i could tell, the brake didnt need adjustment nor did it need pads.  the disc does have very slight grooves, but with my knowledge from cars, i wouldnt think that these grooves would cause this horrible sound... so in the shop, out of the shop and 140 dollars later, the bill i received with "current problems" listed (being front brake squeaks)...now read "SERVICED"  and so off i rode back to my house...this is after my bike sat inside his shop...which i will explain in a second.  i get the bike home, no deal, drive around all nite, no deal, fall asleep, wake up and get on it to ride the next day about noon or so and the front brake is clamped and after getting it off the center stand, getting it back on is pretty hard, just because of the front brake dragging.  weird.. and so it goes,, when the bike is sitting either in the sun or whenever its warm, 70 degrees or more, the brake is grabbing pretty hard.  so... heres my question, i managed to get the bike, back to the shop, with the shop owner saying "i will take care of it"  since the previous bill read "serviced".... so i get it back there a few days ago and today i get a call saying that its fixed and he replaced the master cylinder... now please, correct me if im wrong, but... there was consistant pressure on the brake lever, it didnt leak, and when it was cold/nite here in arizona, the brake worked fine and didnt squeak...what would the master cylinder have to do with this?  am i blatantly being ripped off?  seems to me that i am and once i make it back up there, im going to raise hell. thanks for any and all input.. anything will help... thank you, lee bender.

[TwoTired]

I think this is why many shops refuse work on older bikes.  If all the problems on the poorly maintained older bikes are fixed at once, the bill is so high that customers hit the roof.

A dragging front brake often means the piston isn't releasing due to crud buildup at the caliper, preventing caliper piston retraction.
So, he rebuilt that, attempting to minimizing the charge to you.
Now that the piston retracts properly, increased hydraulic back pressure from the caliper piston movement wasn't properly relieved by the master cylinder, keeping the front brake applied.  So, the master failed shortly after other parts of the system worked better.

Would you have felt better if he had rebuilt the entire system, regardless of immediate needs, and presented a bigger bill at first service?

Or, would you rather have your mechanic repair items as they fail?

Also, as to billing, are you willing to pay the shop rate for the time to write a lengthy detailed report about just what procedures were performed while rebuilding the front caliper?

This is why many shops refuse to work on older bikes, as there is no way to please a customer who doesn't understand what it takes to keep these old bikes operating properly.

Sell your old bike and buy a new one.  If you can't work on this one yourself or feel comfortable paying someone else to keep it running properly, it will be a constant source of aggravation.  If you rail on your mechanic, you can expect future work to become much more expensive, if they will even do business with you again at all.
A new bike will solve that and you can ride on without dealing with old bike maintenance issues.

Well, that's my opinion.
But, I could be wrong... 

Best of luck!

[dusterdude]

tt,you wrong? nawwwww

[SteveD CB500F]

A bit harsh tt, but true.

I'll bet there aren't many members here who haven't rebuilt the front brake at some time - as you say "they all do it, unless you fix it properly".

[bryanj]

Don't know what the hourly charge out rate is over there but in UK its about £40 per hour out of which the Mechanic might get £8. The rest goes to "overheads" like the receptionist, the electric, the gas, the local taxes (usually 100% higher than domestic) etc, etc. Now to do a proper caliper clean out and rebuild i would expect to take 2-3 hours to do a master about the same so I donr think your first bill was unreasonable EXCEPT that if it had been me working on it I would have tried to explain the problems and given you the option of doing it all at the same time so less labour was involved (only bleeding it once!) BUT i would also have insisted on changing the flexible hoses as well as if i work on it and it fails causing an accident its me who is in DEEP Ka-Ka

[Gordon]

 If you can't work on this one yourself or feel comfortable paying someone else to keep it running properly, it will be a constant source of aggravation.

This is absolutely true, but I don't agree that you should sell it and buy a newer bike (unless you really want a newer bike).  Take the money you would otherwise be spending on a mechanic and go buy yourself some tools and a repair manual.  With those items and help from these forums, the knowledge and confidance you will gain will be priceless. 

[fastbroshi]

Woh, hold up man!  I don't think he was trying to condescend, but rather look at it from another point of view.  He probably just threw those examples out there because, as you said, you don't have a lot of tools, and he thought you were a novice mechanic.  Nothing wrong with that, I consider myself a couple small notches above that just because I have enough tools to do some damage.  If you look at the post again he wished you the best of luck.

[jaknight]

 
Hey onesickrace,

   TwoTired was trying to help you.  I think there is a brutal question that has to be settled in your own mind.

   Would you prefer to have an older, classic type of bike or a new (trendy if you will) motorcycle?

   If you really like old bikes the best, you will have to come to grips with the reality that they will quite often be harder to deal with maintenance and repair.  Not just for the at home mechanic, but also the professional mechanics due to the logistics of getting parts and sometimes even proper tools or tooling.  New bikes will more than likely be easier to maintain and repair due to the availability of parts and tools and even repair/maintain literature from the bike makers.

   That mechanic may have eaten up more time/money reworking what existed on your bike and thought the best way to go was new equipment = less time and money.  I do believe that the mechanic should have communicated with you in a better manner than what he did.

   As for TwoTired's advice........... he was trying to bump you into that area of making the decision about the easy way (new bike; paid professional repair work) or the bumpier (but better, imho) older classic bike/buy your own tools do it yourself repair/ zone. 

   It has been said that the art of diplomacy is telling someone to go to hell, in such a way, that they look forward to the trip.  It is not always easy to couch things in such a superb way.
P.S.---------> PM me by email through this site.  Remember, I live in the Phoenix area.  I would like to know whom you were dealing with................
   ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[78 k550]

TT has provided you with the more than great example info and you want to diss. him like that. I think you should step back and think. What mechanical experience do you have cars? First thing most people do when getting something new is read up about it.  Owners manual or service manual are good place's to start. If you think it is a job you can tackle go for it, if not take it to someone. Sorry if you or any one else took his post harsh but I read it and wouldn't of been offended like yourself. Stick around ask more Q or have a nice day.

Thank's TT for all the experience you bring to the board.

Paul

[rob]

onesickrace,

Taking apart the brake caliper and removing the piston and changing the brake fluid doesn't require any more tools than you would need to work on most aspects of your bike (2 or 3 sockets, screw driver).  Same with the master cylinder (you'll maybe need a special pair of plilers to remove the retaining ring on the cylinder).  In any case, tools are a one-time cost versus paying to take things to a mechanic everytime there is a problem.   I think you should tackle taking apart your brakes and seeing if you can fix them up, even just for the experience.  You'll learn more, save money, and be more in synch with the specific mechanical needs of your 30 year old motorcycle.   

A quick look through this forum and you will quickly find that every aspect of these old Hondas becomes a mechanical issue, so its a matter of when things will break, not if they will break.   Part of the thrill of having an older classic bike is the constant day-to-day battle of keeping the damn things running.

Rob

[onesickrace]

i do appologize to the board and to tt...for what was said.. a long list of things mounted that day to bring me to the point of.. however you may want to describe it...just came home to unwind and hope that there would be something a little more on the encouraging side..thanks for the cut up...jak, ill tell you once i get my bike back from the shop...