Author Topic: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?  (Read 3581 times)

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Offline bill440cars

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What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« on: February 27, 2010, 07:43:28 PM »
       One of the Killer Whales took one of the workers down toward the bottom of the tank and drowned her. Man, that had to be traumatic! I can only imagine! And now, the show goes on, but nobody goes in the water! I think it was said that that particular Killer Whale has taken out 3 trainers over the years. I think I'd be rethinking having THAT one out there. ::)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 04:40:34 AM by SteveD CB500F »
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Offline 754

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Re: What About The Tragety At Seaworld?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2010, 08:17:54 PM »


  2 things, she did wrong;

  First she had a ponytail.. last one for a whale trainer..

  Second, She turned her back on a 5 ton beast.. lion trainers cant turn their back either..



  If for example, as little as her hairstyle was different, it could simply looked like the whale gave her a kiss, and everyone would have laughed..

 Its a bit like us playing with a kitten.. size wise..

 Very sad thing that happened though... :(
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Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: What About The Tragety At Seaworld?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 08:26:21 PM »
Trainers lose concentration after enough time goes by.  From pictures i saw, she was treating that beast like a puppy.  Happens with wild animals.  She was not supposed to be in the water- but she was in the water.  I don't blame the whale (orca?). 
I'm no fun;  I really think that many animals should not be in circuses and zoos.
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: What About The Tragety At Seaworld?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 09:01:05 PM »


   I've never been there, but have seen some of the acts on tv and thought it was really amazing what they could get those whales to do. They've been getting in the water with them for some time now and performing as teams. I've always thought the Killer Whales (Orca) were awesome!
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: What About The Tragety At Seaworld?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 09:02:57 PM »
Here's a good history. No gore I promise.

[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Offline demon78

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 05:49:27 AM »
You know I don't see why you want play with one of natures top predators in their element, if it's to titillate the masses, spiffy, (bread & circuses?) but at least a couple things follow, 1 you're going to wind up paying your staff more, 2 you're are going to lose a few every so often ( which is why more $). Every one can go Ohhh, but you are still screwing with with an intelligent, powerful predator, who for it's own reasons may decide that the person in the tank is better dead or the little boy who was throwing things into the tank looks like snackers, (elevenses perhaps?). I'm saying that the Orca's shouldn't be put in a tiny tank for awe and amazement of the great unwashed, it's wro0ng.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2010, 05:54:00 AM »
I tend to agree, Bill. I'm not a big fan of wild animals of any kind in captivity.
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2010, 06:53:09 AM »


       Yeah, I agree that that it isn't really right to have them like that. It is really awesome to see them perform and most of us would never have  had the opportunity otherwise. In my view, I wish there was some way that we could see them doing things, in a setting that would have both the whales and the people safe and content. I have always enjoyed seeing the whales moving in the water. It is so awesome, the way they can move fast enough to come up out of the water and all. I would want them to be treated in the most humane way though. I even enjoy seeing the larger whales rolling in the water to the point of seeing
nothing but the huge Whale Tail. 8)   
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Offline demon78

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2010, 06:57:38 AM »
Well Bob considering the range of Orca the tanks that they are kept in must seem like they are in a goldfish bowl and I would think that would drive them around the bend, I know our old cat who despises snow gets definitely flakey and after two weeks of storms wanders the house, "talking" in a way that lets everyone know that the world isn't right and bloody well change it, now. The size difference between what the cat has to put up with and the Orca must be even more pronounced, The cat's range maybe 1500 yards, the Orca's what 15000, miles I'm surprised that they are not all stir crazy.
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2010, 07:05:26 AM »
Well Bob considering the range of Orca the tanks that they are kept in must seem like they are in a goldfish bowl and I would think that would drive them around the bend, I know our old cat who despises snow gets definitely flakey and after two weeks of storms wanders the house, "talking" in a way that lets everyone know that the world isn't right and bloody well change it, now. The size difference between what the cat has to put up with and the Orca must be even more pronounced, The cat's range maybe 1500 yards, the Orca's what 15000, miles I'm surprised that they are not all stir crazy.
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    Now, I can definitely identify with your cat's feeling AND the way everyone obviously gives your cat it's "space" Bill. I never thought about the probable range that the Orca would be used to having either.
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Offline jamesb

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2010, 07:22:35 AM »
i agree with uncle ernie. it is awful what happened but how would you like to be kept in a contained area all your life just to have idiots come watch you be forced to do tricks for their entertainment.
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Offline bucky katt

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2010, 08:09:39 AM »
i've been around animals most of my life, i worked with and around horses for nearly 20 years. you can never EVER totally trust an animal.
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Offline 6pkrunner

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2010, 08:58:21 AM »
These animals may appear domesticated, but never tamed. To use a superb predator for amusement of the masses - well it has its risks. Next up wolverine juggling and colossal squid kissing.

I do feel bad for the trainer and her family, but given your line of work......

Offline socalenduro

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2010, 09:19:56 AM »
Isn't the risk of death WHY we want to watch the killer whale show in the first place?
Isn't the risk of death WHY we all don't grab a metal sled and rocket down an ice luge?
Don't we all, deep down, kinda wanna see the stunt man botch the landing?


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Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2010, 09:53:28 AM »
i've been around animals most of my life, i worked with and around horses for nearly 20 years. you can never EVER totally trust an animal.


This makes me recall epithets like, "You're an animal!"
I don't think any animal is as irrational and prone to unprovoked violence like rape and murder like the human animal.  We're also much less likey to accept that.
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Offline Alan F.

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2010, 11:08:06 AM »
I listened to a radio discussion about this the other week, am I the only one who wonders if this animal was born in captivity?  People were talking about killing it....or setting it free.....
I'm sure if it was a dog or a chimp, the police would've shot it and that's that.

People were calling in talking about the animal's feelings, and that the animal didn't want to be there, didn't want to be exploited.... yeah OK.

If I killed and ate 3 people, there would be consequences.

Seems like the definition of racism to give preference to any animal in the same situation, doesn't it? 



Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2010, 12:00:26 PM »
I listened to a radio discussion about this the other week, am I the only one who wonders if this animal was born in captivity?  People were talking about killing it....or setting it free.....
I'm sure if it was a dog or a chimp, the police would've shot it and that's that.

People were calling in talking about the animal's feelings, and that the animal didn't want to be there, didn't want to be exploited.... yeah OK.

If I killed and ate 3 people, there would be consequences.

Seems like the definition of racism to give preference to any animal in the same situation, doesn't it?  




Maybe if you were forced to live your life in a closet and made to do tricks for food who knows what you would be capable of doing.  Orcas are intelligent animals that live cooperatively in communities and travel long distances.  They are apex predators, are you suggesting it should be held responsible for being what it is?  The fault lies 100% with the people who confine these animals in small sterile concrete tanks.  
Dogs are domestic animals and this type of behavior would be considered abnormal.  It's not really comparable.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 12:09:33 PM by srust58 »

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Re: What About The Tragety At Seaworld?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2010, 12:56:16 PM »


  2 things, she did wrong;

  First she had a ponytail.. last one for a whale trainer..

  Second, She turned her back on a 5 ton beast.. lion trainers cant turn their back either..




If an Orca wants to pull you down into the water, it doesn't matter at all if you have a ponytail or not.  I agree with your second point though.

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2010, 10:35:15 AM »
Killer Whale, KILLER WHALE, killer whale.

I think the name says it all.
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Offline Alan F.

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2010, 09:00:58 PM »
 ::)

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2010, 10:14:56 PM »
Killer Whale, KILLER WHALE, killer whale.

I think the name says it all.


Don't for get all the huge sharp teeth at the pointy end... ;)
   
These are extremely intelligent animals that live in communities, have life long partners, they have their own language and have massive migratory paths, keeping them locked up for others amusement is the real crime here. I worked on a professional fishing boat for a while and would quite often see whales of all types including Orca's, these animals are awesome in their own environment but would suffer immensely in captivity, look at the curled fins on the animal in question, this is from being in cramped conditions for years. If my captivity was causing me to become deformed i would be pretty pissed off as well.


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Offline bucky katt

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2010, 01:40:02 AM »
this incident has brought back nightmares (literally) that i havent had in more than 10 years, it kind of reminds me that wild animals ARE dangerous no mattter how tame you might think they are. for 3 years in the early 90's i was a docent (volunteer educator) at the Lowry Park Zoo in Tampa Florida. on July 10th 1993 i was watching the lady that i thought was going to become Mrs Emmons, the elephant keeper working with Tilly, an asian elephant, the zoos' largest animal, when Tilly knocked Charlotte down and stomped her chest, killing her almost instantly, even then, he last thoughts were for the welfare of her charge. her last words were "dont hurt that elephant" then she died right there on the ground. i know that these critters are endangered and without these zoo or wildlife park animals we'd likely lose the different species that we're now keeping captive but this just shows how dangerous to both the keeper and the animal captivity programs can be. we were supposed to be going out that evening, our usual date night (saturday) to our favorite local resturant, The Stone Turtle and i was going to ask her to marry me that night. this incident at sea world is a terrible tragedy for this trainer and her family but also for the reputation of these whales. #$%*, i guess i rambled a bit, being awake since monday morning has scrambled my brain some but at least there are no nightmares when i'm awake.
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Offline Alan F.

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2010, 06:29:12 AM »
Awe Jeff, I'm really sorry. That's really a perspective changing story.  We're with you for what it's worth buddy.
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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2010, 06:45:48 AM »


   Aw man! Jeff, I had NO idea that when I started this that I would find out that you or anyone here had any thing remotely like that happen in their life. I Truly felt sorrow for the lady and her family and NOW, I am SO sorry for YOUR loss! Words can not express my feeling for what you, your lady and the family have gone through. Buddy, YOU are in my Prayers. How awful to have something like that haunting you for all this time. IF she was to be YOURS, she MUST have been a VERY Special Lady. You've got a PM coming,    Bill
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Offline Rocking-M

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Re: What About The Tragety At Seaworld?
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2010, 07:06:44 AM »
Trainers lose concentration after enough time goes by.  From pictures i saw, she was treating that beast like a puppy.  Happens with wild animals.  She was not supposed to be in the water- but she was in the water.  I don't blame the whale (orca?). 
I'm no fun;  I really think that many animals should not be in circuses and zoos.

This is true in any dangerous profession, it's just not as prone to be covered by the media.
 I never really think the large animal is at fault in any incident of this nature. Whether it be a kick to the head or any number of
horse related incidents for instance. They are much larger and the human frame is
very weak comparatively.

I went to Sea World down there many years ago.
I don't blame the Orca either and I wonder at the keeping them in a cage part.
The only benefit would be to that some folks might see them that never get a chance other wise
and it might increase their awareness of the sea environment. The environment we seem prone to
destroy. That said, and given the day and age, their are better ways to teach environmental
consciousness than keeping wild animals in captivity.

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Offline bucky katt

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2010, 08:30:42 AM »
i dont really care to see wild critters cooped up in too small enclosures/tanks but unfortunately not everyone gives a rats ass about preserving a species and/or their habitat. while living in Tampa i did volunteer work at a big cat sanctuary as well as at the zoo and one of the things i did at Big Cat Rescue was help to raise one of the very last snow leopards (i think there were 110 left in the world at the time) so if zoos (good ones with a proper amount of space for the critters) keep/breed endangered critters it may be the only way to preserve some. ok that response was a bit of gibberish i see but i dont want to take the time to fix it  :D i've been awake since monday morning except for an hour or 2 last night.
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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2010, 09:01:45 AM »
Bucky, I agree, if the facility has the proper environment it may be the only way to preserve the species and hopefully return it to the world, having said that I don't think that many of the endangered critters are going to be with us muck longer, now there will always be the scavenger, coyotes sea gulls vultures people etc.
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Offline bucky katt

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2010, 09:23:01 AM »
as long as theres still people we'll still lose endangered species, the extinct list gets longer all the time.
Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.
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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2010, 09:51:08 AM »
Bucky, I agree, if the facility has the proper environment it may be the only way to preserve the species and hopefully return it to the world, having said that I don't think that many of the endangered critters are going to be with us muck longer, now there will always be the scavenger, coyotes sea gulls vultures people etc.
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The 'proper environment' for whales is an ocean.  Very few zoos are equipped with those.

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Offline bucky katt

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2010, 09:53:14 AM »
Bucky, I agree, if the facility has the proper environment it may be the only way to preserve the species and hopefully return it to the world, having said that I don't think that many of the endangered critters are going to be with us muck longer, now there will always be the scavenger, coyotes sea gulls vultures people etc.
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The 'proper environment' for whales is an ocean.  Very few zoos are equipped with those.

mystic_1

this is very true but at least at seaworld they dont have Japanese whaling ships.........i mean research vessels going after them.
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: What About The Tragedy At Seaworld?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2010, 10:26:55 AM »
True that.

I wonder though, if a species only exists in zoos, completely removed from it's natural habitat and controlled by human influence, have we really preserved the species, or created a different one?

Consider Canis Lupus Familiaris and Felis Silvestris Catus.

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