Author Topic: Field and Stator coil question (Read 8144 times)

NickC · « **Reply #25 on:** March 04, 2010, 06:24:17 PM »

Got some baseline tests done at the battery. Battery is fully charged and tested good.
Ignition off- 13.35
Ignition on- Drops fairly quickly to 11.87
Ignition on, no light fuses- 12.11

That seems like a helluva draw, I'm guessing I have a short somewhere. Whats the best way to trace it short of checking every connection?

scottly · « **Reply #26 on:** March 04, 2010, 06:38:34 PM »

The "hellava draw" was the headlight. It's time to start over. You started this thread asking about how to test a field and stator. Just what are we trying to fix here??

TwoTired · « **Reply #27 on:** March 04, 2010, 06:41:12 PM »

Is this a new battery or an older one? Can you estimate the number of discharge cycles?

Does the bike have electrical components other than factory installed?

What does the fully charged battery measure after a 2 hr rest, unconnected?

NickC · « **Reply #28 on:** March 04, 2010, 06:52:24 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on March 04, 2010, 06:41:12 PM

Is this a new battery or an older one? Can you estimate the number of discharge cycles?

Does the bike have electrical components other than factory installed?

What does the fully charged battery measure after a 2 hr rest, unconnected?

Battery is ~5 months old. Tested good with a load test. Discharge cycles? It's been between 10-11 volts likely around 10 times.

Electrical components other than factory would be a Dyna-S and some mini turn signals.

NickC · « **Reply #29 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:54:02 PM »

Battery sat off the charger for a few hours, @ 12.9 right now.

TwoTired · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2010, 10:48:35 PM »

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 04, 2010, 09:54:02 PM

Battery sat off the charger for a few hours, @ 12.9 right now.

That's a happy report for the battery! √

Are you using standard sized fuses for the bike? Are any of them running hot to the touch?

NickC · « **Reply #31 on:** March 05, 2010, 07:17:20 AM »

Yes, running standard fuses. The only one I can feel any difference with is the main fuse, slightly warm.

TwoTired · « **Reply #32 on:** March 05, 2010, 11:16:37 AM »

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 05, 2010, 07:17:20 AM

Yes, running standard fuses. The only one I can feel any difference with is the main fuse, slightly warm.

That's ok, so long as it doesn't get hot after, say, 5-10 minutes of freeway riding.

So, what is the problem you are trying to solve?

You do know that the dyna-s will suck more power out of the battery than the stock points, right? (particularly when the engine isn't turning)

NickC · « **Reply #33 on:** March 05, 2010, 11:43:19 AM »

Trying to solve a charging (lack thereof) problem. I'm only getting a max of 12.9 when the bike is running at say, 5k rpm. I can ride for about 15-20 miles before it starts cutting out on me...

scottly · « **Reply #34 on:** March 05, 2010, 12:28:36 PM »

That's what I thought... Did you ever jump the regulator like you were going to try?

NickC · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2010, 12:41:05 PM »

I was going to, but then I saw the draw it had with the key on, and started chasing other junk. I may do the jump tommorow morning whne i get home from the boat....

scottly · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2010, 12:42:40 PM »

You may want to leave the headlight fuse out for the time being.

TwoTired · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2010, 12:48:59 PM »

Ok, here's your checklist...
Field coil resistance - √
Stator coil resistance - √
Battery - √
Rectifier diodes - ?
Vreg - ?
Interconnect wires/integrity - ?
Increased power loading over stock - ?

So far, so good...

NickC · « **Reply #38 on:** March 05, 2010, 01:26:56 PM »

I'm fairly certain my Diode checked out ok, but will confirm tommorow morning.
Vreg came out to be good with a resistance check (can't remember the spec), and an internal points gap check.
So if the rectifier checks out ok, what would be the best method of tracing down the ground? Pick a system and trace it through?

scottly · « **Reply #39 on:** March 05, 2010, 01:36:22 PM »

One step at a time, Nick, one step at a time. If you aren't sure which terminals to jump on the reg, you can check it with your voltmeter. Check the "Not charging CB550 thread.

TwoTired · « **Reply #40 on:** March 05, 2010, 02:35:58 PM »

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 05, 2010, 01:26:56 PM

I'm fairly certain my Diode checked out ok, but will confirm tommorow morning.

Um... the rectifier has six diodes... Is this a grammar issue or an understanding issue?

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 05, 2010, 01:26:56 PM

Vreg came out to be good with a resistance check (can't remember the spec), and an internal points gap check.

Did you measure voltage in (black wire), And also voltage out (White wire)?

Did you measure voltage loss between battery and Vreg black?
Didi you measure voltage loss between Vreg Green and the NEG battery post?

Did you ever do the battery voltage vs RPM check; Idle, 2000, 3000, 4000 and 5000 RPM, starting with a fully charged battery and not using electric start?

NickC · « **Reply #41 on:** March 05, 2010, 02:59:48 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on March 05, 2010, 02:35:58 PM

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 05, 2010, 01:26:56 PM
I'm fairly certain my Diode checked out ok, but will confirm tommorow morning.

Um... the rectifier has six diodes... Is this a grammar issue or an understanding issue?
--Grammer issue, i was thinking rectifier.

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 05, 2010, 01:26:56 PM
Vreg came out to be good with a resistance check (can't remember the spec), and an internal points gap check.
Did you measure voltage in (black wire), And also voltage out (White wire)?
-Will check in the morning
Did you measure voltage loss between battery and Vreg black?
Didi you measure voltage loss between Vreg Green and the NEG battery post?
-Will check in the morning
Did you ever do the battery voltage vs RPM check; Idle, 2000, 3000, 4000 and 5000 RPM, starting with a fully charged battery and not using electric start?
-Fully charged battery with no electric start produced, 12, ~12.5 for all other RPMS, and 12.9 at 5k

TwoTired · « **Reply #42 on:** March 05, 2010, 03:28:52 PM »

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 05, 2010, 02:59:48 PM

Quote from: TwoTired on March 05, 2010, 02:35:58 PM
Did you ever do the battery voltage vs RPM check; Idle, 2000, 3000, 4000 and 5000 RPM, starting with a fully charged battery and not using electric start?
-Fully charged battery with no electric start produced, 12, ~12.5 for all other RPMS, and 12.9 at 5k

That's pretty awful unless the battery was depleted and being very slowly recharged.

Here are unloaded battery voltage values.

NickC · « **Reply #43 on:** March 05, 2010, 08:16:02 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on March 05, 2010, 03:28:52 PM

Quote from: Nick@lockitup on March 05, 2010, 02:59:48 PM
Quote from: TwoTired on March 05, 2010, 02:35:58 PM
Did you ever do the battery voltage vs RPM check; Idle, 2000, 3000, 4000 and 5000 RPM, starting with a fully charged battery and not using electric start?
-Fully charged battery with no electric start produced, 12, ~12.5 for all other RPMS, and 12.9 at 5k
That's pretty awful unless the battery was depleted and being very slowly recharged.

Here are unloaded battery voltage values.

Unfortunately that was fully charged....

TwoTired · « **Reply #44 on:** March 06, 2010, 01:19:22 AM »

The chart was for a battery with no load on it. The voltage will sag commensurate with the load placed on it.

dave500 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 06, 2010, 01:45:49 AM »

ummm,,errrr ,flame me now,,have you access to a rec/reg from say a boldor??or some other electronic unit?,,truly,,after all these years,,the factory ones can develop these dramas,,now matter how reliable others have had these things be,,they do do this stuff,,temperature sensitive 35 year old rectifier???,,i dont know,,if you can swap it over easy try it.,if the field and stator test true??i think its a good try.

NickC · « **Reply #46 on:** March 06, 2010, 01:55:45 PM »

Ok, here are this mornings measurements.

Battery, ign off: 12.8 (sitting for 2 days on no charger)
Battery, ign on: 11.98
Battery, running @2k: 12.5

Voltage reg, running:
Black to green: 11.3V
White to green: 10.8V
Black to Neg battery terminal: 12V
Green to Neg battery terminal: .1V

Also went back and tested my rectfier via the following:
Green to all yellow
Red to all yellow

All yielded Inf. resistance.

Reversed testing leads

All yielded inf. resistance.

So, with all that, do I need to be looking for a rectifier?
I really appreciate everyone's patience!

Bodi · « **Reply #47 on:** March 06, 2010, 02:17:52 PM »

Your rectifier test says all 6 diodes are blown, but that can't be right because some alternator power is getting through, proven since your running voltage is higher than not running.
So the rectifier is still unknown, it may have some bad diodes.
Some meters don't measure diodes very well (or at all) since the diode forward voltage drop is more than the resistance sensing voltage they provide.
You can try a different meter. Any meter with a diode test function will work - this usually reads out the voltage drop directly. many digital multimeters have this.
You can test it using a normal smoke detector 9V battery and the your meter. Get the meter reading the battery voltage across the 9V battery terminals. Hold one probe against one battery terminal. Touch the red wire to the other battery terminal. measure voltage to each yellow wire: it may be 0V or a bit less than the battery reading. Whatever, all three yellows should read the same. Reverse the battery polarity in this hookup, rmeasure at the yellows again. It should be the opposite of what you just measured. All three must read the same, 0V or ~9V. Now touch the battery terminal to the green wire and repeat the two sets of readings. Same deal, reversed sets but each set consistent across all three wires.
To be exact:
with the battery "+" terminal on the red wire, yellows should read 0V.
with the battery "-" terminal on the red wire, yellows should read ~9V
with the battery "+" terminal on the green wire, yellows should read ~9V
with the battery "-" terminal on the green wire, yellows should read 0V

You CAN use the bike battery for this, but it has enough power to fry your rectifier instantly if you connect it one of many wrong ways. A 9V dry cell does not have enough oomph to damage the diodes.

If your meter is super sensitive it might read flaky when 0V is expected, some electricity may flow through dirt or your fingers.

scottly · « **Reply #48 on:** March 06, 2010, 02:31:04 PM »

I just ran the ohmmeter test with a Kawasaki rectifier (hey, it was handy, and my Honda works so I don't want to mess with it). To get a good reading, I had to go to the 300K ohms scale, and then it read 200K+. Using the diode test function gave consistent readings. If your meter has the diode test, use it.

TwoTired · « **Reply #49 on:** March 06, 2010, 03:27:57 PM »

I guess I wasn't specific enough.
I'd like to see a measurement from the Vreg Black to the Battery POS in the same conditions as your previous collection of data.

Just to reinforce earlier statements. If your DMM has a diode test position, use that to test the rectifier diodes. There may be a symbol that looks like this -<|-. That's a diode symbol.

You don't want to replace the rectifier, unless necessary.

Looks to be a .5 V drop through the regulator. The upper point contacts may need cleaning. When the battery is in a low state, ALL the voltage needs to be passed to the alternator field.
There also seems to be some voltage loss between the Battery POS and the Vreg Black.
Both of these issues will weaken alternator output.

However, if one or more diodes in the rectifier are open, as your above test report states, that will also cause reduced battery charge capability.

News:

Author Topic: Field and Stator coil question (Read 8144 times)