Topic: What's wrong with my bike? (Video)

[BigBoi]

Sounds like what you've got is correct, or close to, but the air screws might need to start at 3/4 turn.  You'll probably end up at 7/8 turn.  Yours sounds like it's running heavy on two cylinders.  Hear how it sounds like a vertical twin?  Make sure your points are set correctly.  Many will tell you to get rid of them.  Read your plugs.  Remember it's harder to jump a larger gap; I set mine at the small side of the normal range.  If I remember correctly, the manual calls out for a plug that many have discovered is a little cold.  If you're having fouling problems, do a search on that.

I went through my carbs with a fine tooth comb a few years ago.  I didn't trust float height, so I measured volume.  I pin drilled jets to put me in the ballpark, then bought the correct jets.  I drilled my emulsion tubes.  I messed with needles.  If there was something to tweak, I did it.  My problem turned out to be the needle bushings were worn out-  I was dealing with a 1/16 throttle choppiness.

I set my points with a dwell meter and they are spot on.

You've got it running, that's a start.  Now you have to give it a tune up.  Let the fun begin!

I'll also pull the plugs tomorrow to see what they look like.

[MJL]

Notes and new video:

- Checked the points today, adjusted them to spec.
- Seems to be no more blue smoke (Not sure because there's a lot of white but didn't see blue)
- Embarrassed, but the idle screw was all the way out, now it idles.   
- Still quite a bit of noise from the motor...I believe it may be the cam chain but I have no idea. Very new to this.
- Humidity in Ottawa is always high.
- One thing I noticed, is that my oil seems to be a little watery. I just put in this new oil yesterday (was none in the motor for a while, it sat...), Honda GN4 10w40. I'm going to change it again tomorrow to make sure it's kosher.

Updated video...it had been running for about 5-7 minutes at this point:

Also, unrelated note...I can't seem to get it in Neutral. There's no chain yet, that's why it's fine.

Imho the white smoke is probably from the hot exhaust meeting cold humid air, nothing to worry about at this point.

The motor sounds good, but could use a good vacuum sync. A bench sync will get you running, but it won't nessesarily idle smoothly unless your carbs happen to be near their ideal. My 650 carbs appeared to be way off, so I bench synced them and it wouldn't idle well. It would idle low, then race up for awhile, then go back low, etc.

Sometimes if you can't get it in neutral you have to rock it back and forth once or twice, and since you have no chain that obviously won't work for you right now. So again, nothing to worry about right now.

[BigBoi]

None at all.  First remove the starter cover (2 small bolts).  Then remove the 3 bolts that hold the adjuster on (1 on top 2 on the bottom), just make sure you are careful with the gasket.  Once it's off you should be able to push the adjuster with your fingers, and it should slide smoothly.  If not then a simple clean up is in order.  This has helped quiet 2 bikes i have worked on.

Good Luck

Travis

Hey Travis,

So thanks for the recommendation, it was definitely seized. I pulled it out, unscrewed the holding bolt while on my bench and nothing moved. There was quite a bit of gunk in there. So I cleaned it, threw some synthetic grease on the shaft and put it back in. (At 15 degrees past TDC 1.4) My only issue is that when I did, it still sounded pretty loud. I pulled it again, this time presetting the size to a little tighter. This caused all kinds of havoc. It ran terribly, and wouldn't even idle on it's own. I think the chain may have been too tight, not sure. So I pulled it again one more time, preset it to the loosest setting, and put it back in, dropped the bolt and let it tighten automatically. It's back to running ok, but you can still hear the chain quite a bit.

I did have time to check the valves on the number 4 cylinder before I finished, and they seem to be way out. My exhaust valve was at least at 0.005. I stopped after that saying that I'll do a full adjustment tomorrow. Hopefully I can get it running a little more smoothly. I know a carb synch is crucial...if only my Morgan would get here!

Also, attached is a picture of my plugs, cylinders 1 through 4, left to right. They look decent to me (not that I know), but there does seem to be quite a bit of carbon buildup after I wiped them. (Picture is before the wipe)

[BigBoi]

Imho the white smoke is probably from the hot exhaust meeting cold humid air, nothing to worry about at this point.

The motor sounds good, but could use a good vacuum sync. A bench sync will get you running, but it won't nessesarily idle smoothly unless your carbs happen to be near their ideal. My 650 carbs appeared to be way off, so I bench synced them and it wouldn't idle well. It would idle low, then race up for awhile, then go back low, etc.

Sometimes if you can't get it in neutral you have to rock it back and forth once or twice, and since you have no chain that obviously won't work for you right now. So again, nothing to worry about right now.

You were absolutely right about the neutral. I just moved the gear slightly by hand and it went right into neutral. Thanks for that...one less issue.

[BigBoi]

One last thing as well which is strange. My battery is losing charge when its plugged into the bike. And I mean completely. It was at 11.5V last night, tonight it was at like 0.25V.

Any idea what could be causing this? No, I didn't leave it on.

[70cbk0]

The battery will lose charge if the rectifier has gone bad. It lets the battery drain down, could be that. There are directions on here somewhere, of how to check that with a multimeter. Someone else may have some other suggestions.

[Loki]

hey there the battery could very much be no good any more, new one isnt that pricey.

 and here is a link for spark plugs.

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html

[BigBoi]

The battery will lose charge if the rectifier has gone bad. It lets the battery drain down, could be that. There are directions on here somewhere, of how to check that with a multimeter. Someone else may have some other suggestions.

I'm just confused as to why my battery is being drained when the bike is sitting there off? What could possibly be drawing power from the battery at that point?

[scottly]

Your battery was down to .25V??? I think you've just solved your starter problem!!!

[TwoTired]

The battery will lose charge if the rectifier has gone bad. It lets the battery drain down, could be that. There are directions on here somewhere, of how to check that with a multimeter. Someone else may have some other suggestions.

I'm just confused as to why my battery is being drained when the bike is sitting there off? What could possibly be drawing power from the battery at that point?

Could be many things:
One, is you using the park position on the key switch, which would leave the tail lamp on with bike off.

The next common one would be a damaged rectifier.  The charging system is neither switched nor fused in connection with the battery.  The rectifier is supposed to isolate the alternator stator windings from acting as a load on the battery.
There are six diodes inside the rectifier and a shorted or otherwise faulty diode would present a load to the battery, and prevent proper charging of the battery.
Look at the wire going to the rectifier.  If they show melted wiring insulation, it's a safe bet that someone, at sometime, reversed the battery connections, which is similar to swinging a sledge hammer to the rectifier.

Of course, melted, mangled wiring inside the wire harness can lead to all sorts of strange electrical behavior, including battery draining.

[climbingaz]

great info guys!

[Spanner 1]

+1 with Travi about the cam chain tensioner.... I bet more than 10 per cent of our bikes have stuck tensioners !!
Overzealous tightening of the tensioner bolt can 'burr' the shaft and when next loosened the shaft can not slide under the spring pressure
'cos the 'burr' makes it stick in the bore and the tensioner shoe won't contact the chain like it's supposed to.......

[8 Track]

The plugs look fine, 3 and 4 miiiiight be a little rich, but definitely nothing to worry about or cause it to run poorly.  Number 2 looks a little lean.  After you tune it up, put fresh ones in, then you'll get a better read.  But my opinion, they're fine.

Now...  You guys have me thinking about pulling my chain tensioner and checking it.  When I set mine, I did the allen wrench trick, applying a slight amount of pressure to the back side.  But is it right?  Hmm...

[73nancy]

i must say the this forum is probally the greatest. so much usefull diffrent was at looking at problems. great job guys. but ya the cam tensioner i had a little issue up on mine. after some good cleaning mine was good. but like said before triple check the valve clearances and make sure you follow it excatly what the book says. i had to redo mine three times untill i got the ticking to go back to where its normal. its alright to have a little tick to the valves but not to much theres a sweet spot. its better to have them a tad loose and its not good to have them to tight cause you can have problems with valves sticking. sounds like you have a few issues that are compounding to make it seem like a big issue. good luck looks like your making progress.

[BigBoi]

Well, the motor seems to be running smooth now after the valve adjustment. I'm also ashamed that I may have been slightly out of fuel, which is why it sounded so bad sputtering out.   

Live and learn I guess.

In the battery issue, I've got some info. When the motor was running, I measured the battery voltage and it was at 14->14.5. This was at 1100 RPM (idle for now).

I also checked the voltage on the battery when the bike was off, and it was at 11.57V. I unplugged the rectifier and the regulator. A half hour later, the voltage had dropped to 11.23V. So something else is drawing power.

Any tips on how to track this down? Is this a short to ground?

Thanks for all the help guys!

[scottly]

At first glance, this tells me your charging system is working, and you need to put the battery on a charger. Just to eliminate possible phantom loads, disconnect one of the battery leads before you let the bike set over night.

[8 Track]

You've got three fuses on the side, pull one at a time to isolate the drain and you'll have the problem circuit narrowed down.  Or, it won't be in there at all, but at least you'll narrow it down.

[Frostyboy]

You've got three fuses on the side, pull one at a time to isolate the drain and you'll have the problem circuit narrowed down.  Or, it won't be in there at all, but at least you'll narrow it down.

Try this, when you pull each fuse, one at a time, connect a test light across the fuse block terminals. If the light glows, there's a drain on that circuit.
If nothing is evident there, put all the fuses back in, disconnect the negative lead from the battery & put the light between the lead & the battery. If that lights up, the only circuit that could be active is a failed rectifier like TT explained, cos it's unfused.
Edit:
If nothing shows up anywhere, I think it's simply time for a new battery.

[8 Track]

Try this, when you pull each fuse, one at a time, connect a test light across the fuse block terminals. If the light glows, there's a drain on that circuit.
If nothing is evident there, put all the fuses back in, disconnect the negative lead from the battery & put the light between the lead & the battery. If that lights up, the only circuit that could be active is a failed rectifier like TT explained, cos it's unfused.
Edit:
If nothing shows up anywhere, I think it's simply time for a new battery.

Now I like that idea!

Ya know, working with these bikes is half the fun.  I had carb issues with mine and when I finally figured it out and the bike ran like a top, I stood back and asked, "now what do I do?"  Put gas in it, change the oil and ride.  That's it.  So it's fun to help others, that's what I'm getting at.

[BigBoi]

Dude...you guys are brilliant.

I actually used twostroke's method this morning (wrote down the current voltage in the battery, pulled 2 fuses out).

I'll use Frostyboy's method tonight.

Just out of curiousity though, I left the battery sitting on my workbench last night, and it was at 10.75V before I went to sleep and at 10.69V this morning. I'm assuming a minimal loss like this is typical in these batteries?

Thanks!

[8 Track]

... and it was at 10.75V before I went to sleep and at 10.69V this morning. I'm assuming a minimal loss like this is typical in these batteries?

Ehhhh, I'd get it checked at the auto parts store and be prepared to buy a new one for oh, say, $40?

My bike won't hold a solid charge for one month, but then I use the kick starter.  From day to day or a week, no problem.

Ugh, you guys are killing me.  35 degrees or not, I'm going for a ride!

[TwoTired]

Wet cell batteries will self discharge on there own. (8% - 40% per month)

But, a fully discharged battery will read 11.89 V (-ish).

If yours is reading less than that, you may wish to consider that one of the six cells in the battery is inoperative.

In any case, it needs to spend time on a charger to see if it will recover.  Using it "as is" can only damage it farther.
Don't expect you bike to do this.  It's charge rate is only 1-2 amps with the motor spinning @5000rpm.  So, you can expect to run the engine about 14 hours revved up to make a full recharge.

You may wish to invest in a battery tender.

[BigBoi]

Wet cell batteries will self discharge on there own. (8% - 40% per month)

But, a fully discharged battery will read 11.89 V (-ish).

If yours is reading less than that, you may wish to consider that one of the six cells in the battery is inoperative.

In any case, it needs to spend time on a charger to see if it will recover.  Using it "as is" can only damage it farther.
Don't expect you bike to do this.  It's charge rate is only 1-2 amps with the motor spinning @5000rpm.  So, you can expect to run the engine about 14 hours revved up to make a full recharge.

You may wish to invest in a battery tender.

I should have mentionned, it was after I had it plugged into the bike for a while. I do have a tender which I placed it on for a day. It was at around 11.85V after I took it off.

It's a new battery by the way...which I know could be faulty, but I'm certain at this point that I've got something draining it on the bike. Going to see about sorting that out tonight.

[8 Track]

Is it a smart tender?  If you leave a regular 1.5 amp (is that what they are?) tender hooked up all the time, it will ruin the battery.  The smart tenders shut off.  I did that once.

[TwoTired]

I should have mentionned, it was after I had it plugged into the bike for a while. I do have a tender which I placed it on for a day. It was at around 11.85V after I took it off.

It's a new battery by the way...which I know could be faulty, but I'm certain at this point that I've got something draining it on the bike. Going to see about sorting that out tonight.

If it is 11.85 v after being charged, it definitely has a bad cell or you have a faulty charger.  Better measure the charger output.  Straight off the charger it should read about 13.8 V.  Given the battery has six cells at a nominal 2v per cell, and your battery reads 2 v under nominal, I'd say your battery is bad.  Doesn't matter if it is "new".  It is known bad.  Even if your bike still has another issue, troubleshooting with known bad components in the circuit (the battery) doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

But, I've seen dogs chase their own tail and seem quite pleased with the effort.   Perhaps I'm missing something?  

Does your meter have ammeter capability?  Does you know it's measurement limit, if so?