Topic: Which engine is better - yamaha xs650 or cb650...

[elcid]

Ok so I have decided I am going to be building a custom old school bobber from the ground up (actually someone else is building it & I am designing it) & I have to choose an engine. So what are the positives & negatives with using a cb650 or xs650 engine? I have heard that the xs650is more asthetically pleasing because it isn't so wide in the frame but then I have heard the 4 cylinder cb650 is better if you are riding long distances - it is more solid. Does it really matter whether I get a 2 cylinder versus 4? Well break it down for me. I want to drive it everyday & take some roadtrips & also carry my girl on the back sometimes.

Also I want an engine that is easy to fix & easy to get parts for. I don't want a cool looking bike but then when I need spare parts, I have to wait months in order to find them. Is there any other engine that is easy to find & get parts for besides the two I mentioned? I want to stay at 650 becuase 750 is just too big for me. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I need a decent softail frame that is close to stock rake & trail of cb bikes BUT I do not want to go over $1500. Can any of you guys recommend any that are less expensive than others but are still good frames? I know of all the major brands of santee, paugcho etc. I think I need some smaller company who makes them for less...

[ofreen]

The 650 Yamaha twin has a fair amount of vibration, if that is a concern to you.  A friend of mine is queer for XS650s and says he doesn't notice.  He got 75,000 miles on one of his, so they can be reasonably durable.  Parts from Yamaha can be problematical, but those bikes have a following, so parts can be had.  As to which engine is "better", it depends on your preferences.  By most measurements, the CB650 is "better,"  but if you like parallel twins, the CB can't compare.

[scunny]

since this is a sohc/4 site, I'm picking the honda motor.

[scunny]

since this is a sohc/4 site, I'm picking the honda motor.

[Terry in Australia]

Geez, you don't want much mate? You want to build a custom for very little money, it has to be suitable for a wide variety of tasks, and parts have to be available over the counter for bikes that finished their production run 25 years ago? Ha ha, best of luck!

Seriously though, there are only two Jap engines that look good in "customs", they are the CB750 and TX/XS650 Yamaha twins, the rest just look silly. (IMLTHO) The 650 is a great engine, the looks of a British twin with Jap reliability, and oil tight. You can buy all sorts of big bore kits, cams, carb conversions, pipes etc, and they are nice engines for sure. If you don't want to go for a CB750 engine (probably the most versatile engine ever built) then go the Yam. Cheers, Terry.

[elcid]

wow thanx for the quick response guys! Now as far as the looks, does the cb650 look to wide for a bobber look? What are the benefits to a 4 cylin der versus 2? If I am driving everyday, taking roadtrips & taking a girl on back from time to time, will a 2 cylinder be fine? And yes I DO want it all at an "inexpensive" price ($3500-$4000) & I will get it. It takes some creative thinking but it will be done. Keep in mind it is a very basic design - a rat bike. No custom paint, not a lot of chrome, no crazy billet parts, etc... Anyone know who sells softail frames with minimal rake & trail for around $1000?

[KB02]

I used to ride two-up on a 400 parallel twin with no problems at all.

As for the CB vs. the XS situation, it's kinda of toss up. they're both good engines. But I'd say go with the CB simply for the fact that parts are more readily available. Honda is like that. Yamaha tends to discontinue muck quicker.

[bill440cars]

A lot of your decision is going to have to be based on your wants & needs. The XS650 (as previously stated) is an engine good enough to have created a large following, has quite a few parts available and a website (to check out stock, custom, cafe racer, bobber, & chopper styles) Also Mike's XS has a large on-line catalog. Now then while I personally thing they would be great around town and maybe short trips, I would have to say I don't believe you would want to try it on anything else. The CB650 on the other hand, is a great bike and I don't believe you'd have any problems with any situation that you put it in. I like both bikes. I like the XS because it is a simple design, has a "British look", and parts for it shouldn't be that hard to find. Also, you should check out the web site which is 650motorcycles.com because, there are plenty of ideas that you might like and could apply to the CB650 also. I like the CB650 (& CB550 & CB500 & CB400 too, myself & the CB750, etc) I think the CB650 would be "at home" no matter what the situation. But, the choice is yours. I hope I haven't alienated (I guess I spelled that right) anybody but, the fact is while I like so many of the Honda models, I do like the XS650 & SR500 Yamahas. Forgive me.     Bill                     

[volz1fsu]

If you are long distance cruising and want smooth and reliable it has to be the CB650 hands down.  The XS650 is a rough running engine that has both pistons going up at the same time with a balance shaft inside to "smooth" that operation out but it works very poorly.  The whole engine reminds me of a Harley with all the vibration and little power output for the size.  Also heard it breaks down a lot, also like a Harley.  
The CB650 has LOADS more power and torque and since this is the SOHC4 forum, you already know my recommendation.

[Gibson]

A four will run alot smother than a twin and it's been my experince that you can get annything for a Honda from Honda. both are good engine's and after i finnish my 350-4 i'm building a chopper with a SX 400 twin good luck you should be building it yourself.

[05c50]

I have a 1980 cb650 and a 1977 xs 650. A lot has already been said about the 4 cylinder being smoother then the two, but in my own experience I have found not much difference. The Honda is a quicker revving engine, but the Yam seems to have more torque. When cruising down the highway the yam seems to purr a long, but the Honda gets a little buzzy above 70 mph. The Honda will rev much higher. Red lines at 9500. I think that I would be picking up pieces of Yamaha long before that. Another consideration is that the Honda is much wider. ( it makes it harder to put forward controls on it ,but it can be done). As far as reliability, they both have thier little bugs,but nothing major. Up to now I haven't had getting parts for either on. Hope this helps.   Paul

[Uncle Ernie]

$4K?!  Before starting, go to the Library and check out a copy of Murphy's Laws.  Anyhoo, if this is looking like I imagine, don't worry about hauling a girlfriend; if she really loves you, she'll wait for you to get back.  As far as engines go, the Honda will be heavier, wider, and higher revving. The Yamaha power will be just fine, but will also have more of the classic Brit look.  It's a very versatile engine. Just saw one in a screaming kneeler where a Triumph used to be.  There's a cosmic way to figure out which one; toss a coin. If, in your heart of hearts, in that second the coin is in the air, you find yourself wishing it comes up one side or the other- that's the one to pick. 
for frames, check Ebay and Walnecks

[TwoTired]

Oh what the hey, here's my opinion.

Go for Yamaha.  The twin will be a torquier engine.  Twist the throttle and scoot.  The Cb650 you will have to downshift a gear or two to get scootability.  You need RPM for best power.

I've had Cb550's for years. (The cb650 without the steroids.)  Quite smooth.  I've also had a BSA650 twin that was a bobber before the bobber phrase was coined.  Wish I'd had the foresight to keep it.  
Vibration is actually a motorcycle enhancement for female passengers (or riders) as it provides stimulation only they can truly appreciate.  Probably a good thing to be in the vicinity after the ride.  Think about it.    

Cheers,

[elcid]

Wow guys. I forgot why I love this forum so muc. Very informative & for the most part, unbiased opinions. Thanx for that! My main thing is I have to basically take each engine & set into a frame to get an idea of what it looks like. It is always a battle between asthetics & performance/ practicality. I want the lines of the bike to flow. I don't want this killer looking bobber then you look at the engine & it looks like a twin mattress lengthwise sticking out. In the photos I have seen the xs 650 just looks better. It does have that classic British twin look which is a very quintisential look which I am going after. I just thought, which some of you agree with, that the cb650 would be a "better" bike for longer cruising. I have never seen either bike in person so that is the first step. Now have any of you guys taken an xs650 on long trips? Can I trust it as much? Especially if I take a passenger? But I actually saw another Honda 650 engine that looked like it was not as wide.CBX650. Although it doesn't have that classic look. Are these hard to find?  Decisions, decisions! I have to say I am very excited about this & your guys' help is appreciated. Oh & anyone know where to get a softail that is close to stock rake & trail of cb bike & for around $1000? Thanx!

[paulages]

why ride anything made by a company that makes trombones???

 

[oldbiker]

I played a Yamaha Cornet that was a beauty with a great tone, but I still preferred the Boosey and Hawkes.

[bryanj]

Yamaha parts are not at all easy to get for old engines and IMPOSSIBLE for the very first 650 twin (XS1) which has a different cam chain and therefore crank and cam as well!!! Honda parts are better but the worst served SOHC is the 650 with the carbs being a particular problem if you want the wet sump engine the best served for parts is the 500 believe it or not as although the 550 is newer a lot of parts, like pistons, are only available genuine and cost an arm and a leg with the rings costing the other limbs. 750 SOHC has to be the best served but needs an external oil tank. Bottom line is its your bike so your choice of engine and will mostly come down to what you can get locally at the right price!

[elcid]

ah jeeze now you guys are making it more diificult to choose! is there a 650 twin Jap engine that is easier to get parts for? is the cb650 engine as wide as 750? maybe it won't look so bad...

[bill440cars]

                          I believe each one deserves an even break so, I'm going to say it once again
                 (cause it seems like nobody remembers), check out Mikes XS. I don't remember the
                  exact site name but, you can find it on "650motorcycles.com". The parts can't be
                  that bad to find. Look at all the bikes that are posted on that site. Either the parts
                  aren't that hard to get or the bikes never wear out (and we know that's not true)
                  Like I've said before, there are a lot of good ideas on those bikes that might be used
                  on the Hondas as well. Check it out.     Gone for now,  Bill

[elcid]

Thanx bill 440. I guess they both have good & bad points. I just have to see each engine in a frame to see how it looks. I saw a cb650 chopper & it didn't seem as wide as cb750. it definitely takes up more space than the xs650 twin though. The twins just look so good! Does it really matter to have a 4 cylinder over a 2 if I want to drive on 500 + miles trips? I mean if I drive from Los Angeles down through Baja are you saying it wouldn't make as opposed to 4 cylinder would? Forgive me for being repetetive with my questioning - I just want to be clear...

[Gibson]

I belive you have asked a question that can't be dicited because their all good motor's it's just a matter of perferince. in my oppion if your not diehard Honda or you get a really good deal for look's alone i'd go with the XS 650 if you don't like the four's.