Topic: When will it all end?

[mycb750k6]

Each day I see CB750's being 'parted out' on ebay. Disassembled and sold as parts so that another might live. At what point will this reach equilibrium? When there are no more barn yard finds, no more parts from garage junks?  And yet the price of a descent 750 still lingers in the 3000's with the better preserved or more rare commanding twice that. Still this is not much money for the bike that changed history is it. At what point do you think these bikes will start to have real monetary value if ever? (misc ramblings from the rocket man)

[Don R]

  Until there only a few in museums and the ones owned by hardcore sohc'ers like us. Then they will be so desireable Honda will bring em back. The 2030 model retro K0! Made in the USA because the labor is so cheap.

[MCRider]

Remember many of the ones being parted out are otherwise unrideable and are making someone else's ride rideable.

As far as rideable bikes with good rubber on the ground, the numbers are likely growing.

[Frankenkit]

I think he means "when will we cease to see these bikes" like how it's a rare, rare thing to see an original Indian or Bridgestone on the street in real rideable condition.  Brand names live on (sometimes) but the actual bike models?  If Harleys and Indians are any workable indication, 50-60 years post-production seems to be the "common" lifespan of a model.  after that, it's the collectors, enthusiasts and mechanically inclined (who happen to find one cheap somehow) who seem to own them. Sometimes its sad seeing good-condition parts modified into something else, when you know they aren't made anymore and someday we can "run out" or find them too rare to afford.  I think that's why some of us are so dedicated to the stock build, if it's possible anymore with the bike we come across. That's not to say that beautiful café bikes aren't made, it's just that we'd prefer to see them built up from parts too far-gone to resurrect. 

Does that make any sense?

[Don R]

Prices are commonly as new to twice what they sold for new, but counting for inflation not so much.

[MCRider]

I think he means "when will we cease to see these bikes" like how it's a rare, rare thing to see an original Indian or Bridgestone on the street in real rideable condition.  Brand names live on (sometimes) but the actual bike models?  If Harleys and Indians are any workable indication, 50-60 years post-production seems to be the "common" lifespan of a model.  after that, it's the collectors, enthusiasts and mechanically inclined (who happen to find one cheap somehow) who seem to own them. Sometimes its sad seeing good-condition parts modified into something else, when you know they aren't made anymore and someday we can "run out" or find them too rare to afford.  I think that's why some of us are so dedicated to the stock build, if it's possible anymore with the bike we come across. That's not to say that beautiful café bikes aren't made, it's just that we'd prefer to see them built up from parts too far-gone to resurrect. 

Does that make any sense?

Well sure it makes sense But reasonable people can disagree.

AS far as the CB750 goes, Indians and Bridgestones never sold in any where near the volume. If that had anything to do with it, and I think it does, that would push your 50-60 years out to 200 years+. And I'm serious. Something we've never seen before. Unless we make a quantum leap forward in recreational transportation technology, CB750s will be around till then, +.

Look at Yamiya. Here's a bunch of kids that weren't even born when these things came out (kinda like you?) who are dedicated to the breed, and have resurrected the manufacture of many parts Honda has dropped. Likely they've gone back to the origianl manufacturers and said hey don't throw those molds out yet. Make us some and we'll sell them. I suspect that replica frames are not too far away. I suspect the trough in rideable CBs has already hit and from now on, even with the part outs, CBs put back in service will outnumber bikes taken out of service...forever.

I own and covet modern bikes but somehow the SOHC has soul, that crosses generations.

Now I'll just get loose and disconnected.

I was just with a girl who said her boyfriend was selling all his bits and pieces, guns jewelry etc to raise $3500 to buy a 73 Z1. Not a CB but same era, same idea. He was 8 years old when it was new.

I was just with a good old buddy. He was 24 and I was 17 in 1970, when I worked for him in a Honda parts dept. Now hes 64 and I'm 57. He's looking at my buildupand says Ron just before you got there, Romer (the owner) had sent him to a training sesion about the CB750. It was at that session, in 1969, one of the Honda people pulled him aside and said, "listen up and learn, unlike all the other models of all the other bikes ever made, this one is different. THis one can last. 30,40,50 years (I say 100-200 yrs) from now people will be working and riding these things like it was brand new."

Why? Its the first bike that is all someone really needs. Safety, comfort, dependability, 60hp+/-, any more is excess.

Ah nostalgia. Thick as peanut butter.  

[73nancy]

i agree the cb750 does have soul... im 20 years old own a 71 cb750 plus a bunch of old cars but i wasnt even thought of when this thing hit the showroom. i owned a r6 and sold it and bought the cb and im so glad i did because the old bikes are way more fun and interesting to ride.. that and it turns head everywhere you go.

[The_Crippler]

This thread made me feel ways about stuff.

Now I just want to go into my garage and pat my CB gently on the take.  She was built a year before I was born.

[Magpie]

Maybe it will be like the '32 Ford. There's more '32 Fords on the road now than were built in '32. Maybe Yamiya and others will get to the point that they are manufacturing so many replacement parts that you can build a bike from them. There must still be a ton of the old CB's still out there and not found by the numbers that keep showing up here. One member is closing in on a dozen in his collection alone. Call me jealous.
Cliff.

[HavocTurbo]

I think he means "when will we cease to see these bikes" like how it's a rare, rare thing to see an original Indian or Bridgestone on the street in real rideable condition.  Brand names live on (sometimes) but the actual bike models?  If Harleys and Indians are any workable indication, 50-60 years post-production seems to be the "common" lifespan of a model.  after that, it's the collectors, enthusiasts and mechanically inclined (who happen to find one cheap somehow) who seem to own them. Sometimes its sad seeing good-condition parts modified into something else, when you know they aren't made anymore and someday we can "run out" or find them too rare to afford.  I think that's why some of us are so dedicated to the stock build, if it's possible anymore with the bike we come across. That's not to say that beautiful café bikes aren't made, it's just that we'd prefer to see them built up from parts too far-gone to resurrect. 

Does that make any sense?

Well sure it makes sense But reasonable people can disagree.

AS far as the CB750 goes, Indians and Bridgestones never sold in any where near the volume. If that had anything to do with it, and I think it does, that would push your 50-60 years out to 200 years+. And I'm serious. Something we've never seen before. Unless we make a quantum leap forward in recreational transportation technology, CB750s will be around till then, +.

Look at Yamiya. Here's a bunch of kids that weren't even born when these things came out (kinda like you?) who are dedicated to the breed, and have resurrected the manufacture of many parts Honda has dropped. Likely they've gone back to the origianl manufacturers and said hey don't throw those molds out yet. Make us some and we'll sell them. I suspect that replica frames are not too far away. I suspect the trough in rideable CBs has already hit and from now on, even with the part outs, CBs put back in service will outnumber bikes taken out of service...forever.

I own and covet modern bikes but somehow the SOHC has soul, that crosses generations.

Now I'll just get loose and disconnected.

I was just with a girl who said her boyfriend was selling all his bits and pieces, guns jewelry etc to raise $3500 to buy a 73 Z1. Not a CB but same era, same idea. He was 8 years old when it was new.

I was just with a good old buddy. He was 24 and I was 17 in 1970, when I worked for him in a Honda parts dept. Now hes 64 and I'm 57. He's looking at my buildupand says Ron just before you got there, Romer (the owner) had sent him to a training sesion about the CB750. It was at that session, in 1969, one of the Honda people pulled him aside and said, "listen up and learn, unlike all the other models of all the other bikes ever made, this one is different. THis one can last. 30,40,50 years (I say 100-200 yrs) from now people will be working and riding these things like it was brand new."

Why? Its the first bike that is all someone really needs. Safety, comfort, dependability, 60hp+/-, any more is excess.

Ah nostalgia. Thick as peanut butter.  

You made me cry.

My 750 and my 550 are 78's. Neither run. But someday. And I get asked all the time why I have bikes in boxes. I just say SOHC Honda man.... and a CB750 to boot.

They all just shut up and nod.

People my age..... even though we weren't around yet..... we seem to understand the importance of roots and beginnings.

[mrbreeze]

I think he means "when will we cease to see these bikes" like how it's a rare, rare thing to see an original Indian or Bridgestone on the street in real rideable condition.  Brand names live on (sometimes) but the actual bike models?  If Harleys and Indians are any workable indication, 50-60 years post-production seems to be the "common" lifespan of a model.  after that, it's the collectors, enthusiasts and mechanically inclined (who happen to find one cheap somehow) who seem to own them. Sometimes its sad seeing good-condition parts modified into something else, when you know they aren't made anymore and someday we can "run out" or find them too rare to afford.  I think that's why some of us are so dedicated to the stock build, if it's possible anymore with the bike we come across. That's not to say that beautiful café bikes aren't made, it's just that we'd prefer to see them built up from parts too far-gone to resurrect. 

Does that make any sense?

Well sure it makes sense But reasonable people can disagree.

AS far as the CB750 goes, Indians and Bridgestones never sold in any where near the volume. If that had anything to do with it, and I think it does, that would push your 50-60 years out to 200 years+. And I'm serious. Something we've never seen before. Unless we make a quantum leap forward in recreational transportation technology, CB750s will be around till then, +.

Look at Yamiya. Here's a bunch of kids that weren't even born when these things came out (kinda like you?) who are dedicated to the breed, and have resurrected the manufacture of many parts Honda has dropped. Likely they've gone back to the origianl manufacturers and said hey don't throw those molds out yet. Make us some and we'll sell them. I suspect that replica frames are not too far away. I suspect the trough in rideable CBs has already hit and from now on, even with the part outs, CBs put back in service will outnumber bikes taken out of service...forever.

I own and covet modern bikes but somehow the SOHC has soul, that crosses generations.

Now I'll just get loose and disconnected.

I was just with a girl who said her boyfriend was selling all his bits and pieces, guns jewelry etc to raise $3500 to buy a 73 Z1. Not a CB but same era, same idea. He was 8 years old when it was new.

I was just with a good old buddy. He was 24 and I was 17 in 1970, when I worked for him in a Honda parts dept. Now hes 64 and I'm 57. He's looking at my buildupand says Ron just before you got there, Romer (the owner) had sent him to a training sesion about the CB750. It was at that session, in 1969, one of the Honda people pulled him aside and said, "listen up and learn, unlike all the other models of all the other bikes ever made, this one is different. THis one can last. 30,40,50 years (I say 100-200 yrs) from now people will be working and riding these things like it was brand new."

Why? Its the first bike that is all someone really needs. Safety, comfort, dependability, 60hp+/-, any more is excess.

Ah nostalgia. Thick as peanut butter.  

Sounds logical to me Ron!!!

[jcarthel]

MYSTIC OF THE ORIGINAL CB 750, K0-K6.  I WAS BORN 4 YEARS AFTER TO THE MONTH THAT MY 750 WAS BUILT!  I WANTED THE LEGEND!

JUSTIN

[mycb750k6]

OK let me ask the question a different way. Do yo think the number of parts for 750s appearing on ebay by parts companies and individuals is increasing? More people jumping on the bandwagon? I only have two years experience at this so I don't know. But the prices of 750s clearly are getting less by 20-25% over the past couple years. It seems it's like real estate and the economy, prices are woefully depressed. IMHO.

[MCRider]

OK let me ask the question a different way. Do yo think the number of parts for 750s appearing on ebay by parts companies and individuals is increasing? More people jumping on the bandwagon? I only have two years experience at this so I don't know. But the prices of 750s clearly are getting less by 20-25% over the past couple years. It seems it's like real estate and the economy, prices are woefully depressed. IMHO.

Two part question:
Number of parts available increasing? I'd say yes. The unasked question, does this decrease "available" roling stock? I'd say no. Counter intuitive perhaps, but the shadow inventory hidden in barns and open fields, storage lockers etc has yet to be tapped IMO.

Prices may have hit an air pocket in the last 2 years, I don't see it but I'd concede the point to someone who has been watching closer than I have. Perhaps sympathetic to the economy. Some cooling off is desirable. The price trend was getting ahead of itself.

Since 2000 though I'd say its a pretty steady trend up. Personally I want a firm trend but not one that is parabolic. Twice the average inflation rate is pretty good.

To get 6 to $10K for cafe racers with basically stock motors is beyond me. Pre-K1s are bringing $6 to $10k? K1 and later $3 to $6k I think. That's pretty good I think, maybe too good, keeping some people out of the market for anything except junk.

[Raul CB750K1]

OK let me ask the question a different way. Do yo think the number of parts for 750s appearing on ebay by parts companies and individuals is increasing? More people jumping on the bandwagon? I only have two years experience at this so I don't know. But the prices of 750s clearly are getting less by 20-25% over the past couple years. It seems it's like real estate and the economy, prices are woefully depressed. IMHO.

Compare old bikes to oil reserves. One day you stump into one.

If the cost of restoring the bike is higher than buying a bike in similar, restored bike, the economically-wise decision is to part it out or let it sit. With oil reserves, if the cost of extraction is so high that it is not a good investment as compared with other reserves, the wise decision is to let the reserve alone.

Time goes on and bikes are destroyed, for one reason or another. The more scarce and old, the more expensive. There comes a day when restoring a bike is economically wise, because the cost of restoration is more or less the same -man hours, plating etc- but the price of the finished bike is higher.

There comes a further moment when all the abandoned bikes has been restored, and nobody is willing to part his out. Or maybe he is, because the price of the parted bike could be higher than the price of the complete bike. In any case, it would have come a moment where it is economically wise to make parts, such as sidecovers, tanks or exhaust, because the bike is so expensive that the high price of parts is assumed, and then, making new parts is again economically wise.

[MCRider]

Agreeing with Raul, I was going to go the oil analogy route, but thought better of it for political reasons.   

One point I'm trying to make, and I may be wrong, is that the production volume of the CB750 was so high, relative to Indians or Bridgestones, or virtually anything before, that it will take a much longer time for the cycle of parting out and rebuilding to take place.

I'd like to know the numbers, but Honda is very guarded about such things.

But it goes something like this, there were more CB750s sold in any one year, than all the Nortons ever sold for example. I have no proof of that, but I'd like to be proven wrong.

That pool of shadow inventory is still out there and we'll be drawing from it past our lifetimes I think.

[andy750]

For comparison look at the Triumph market - it leveled out - same way the SOHC (predominantly CB750) market has. The last few years was inflated as Ron has already mentioned. More parts available from different vendors - definitely - look at Joker Machine, Yamiya etc...making parts again for 30+ year old bikes. For the record Yamiya arent a bunch of kids - they are 40 -50 yr olds  ...but then I guess it depends on what your definition of "kids" is  . Yamiya is also one of many Japanese firms making parts of CB750s...we just hear of the rest since they only sell in Japan.

In any case if you are looking to invest in a CB750 with an idea of making some money of it in the long term you are going to have an awful long wait....unless its a K0.

[ekpent]

The only 750's that are getting harder to find are the true original,unmolested survivors.With all the aftermarket stuff in the day quite a few got "customized" Their only original once so a little more value there.

[traveler]

As far as my '77 550K  I can't ever imagine the day, that ANY 550 will be worth more than $2500.  So, I cafe'd my bike....and even then, putting money in it is a bad move, as you would never get it back.  I am therefore building it for me...and I just want it clean and mechanically sound.

Personally, I just can't see CB's ever being a high dollar bike.  Sandcasts that are 100% stock pull alot of money, but the people that have that kind of money to spend AND crave an ancient K0 are pretty slim.

The fact that Honda just cranked out a ton of them, and the perception that Jap bikes are not highly desireable/disposable bikes will always keep them down.  The 750 seems to be the only one with the high level of appeal....probably due to racing successes, and it being such a groundbreaking bike in late '68.

Look at my bike.  I cannot imagine ANYONE ever being willing to spend a dime over $2500 for it, irregardless of how nice it is.

~Joe

[Laminar]

If the cost of restoring the bike is higher than buying a bike in similar, restored bike, the economically-wise decision is to part it out or let it sit.

But restoring a bike is rarely a decision driven by economically wise reasoning.

[edbikerii]

To tell the truth, I don't think the prices of the SOHC4s have gone up at all, relative to the prices of other things.

For example, when I bought my CB550 back in the mid-nineties, I paid $650.00.  At the time, my rent was about $700 for my studio apartment on the upper east side of Manhattan.

Right now, I figure I could sell my CB550 in MUCH BETTER CONDITION (near perfect, really) than when I bought it, with many upgrades, including Koni shocks, electronic ignition, LEDs, much improved cosmetics, stainless steel brake lines, billet aluminum turn signals, and various other upgrades and improvements for maybe $2500 at best.  The same apartment in Manhattan easily rents for $2500 right now.

In all those years I spent nearly $5000 in maintenance, parts, repairs, upgrades, etc.

So, relative to the cost of living, I think that SOHC4s have not really appreciated at all, with the possible exception of the highly sought after sand-cast model.

In fact, I see SOHC4 CB750s regularly on craigslist for well under $1000 in "when I parked it 15 years ago it ran fine -- needs carbs cleaned, new battery" condition all day long.

However, I don't think SOHC4s have depreciated as much as other bikes have, either.  So, maybe it wasn't the worst investment.  If I had bought a Kawasaki 400 ltd back then, for instance, i'd have to pay someone to drag it away today.  Plus, I got to ride my relatively cool CB550 for all that time, so I'm happy.

[socalenduro]

these bikes seem to be like old VWs. They are somewhat uncommon to see someone driving/riding down the road. But there certainly isnt a shortage of them...

[Simpson]

I live in a group of cities with a combined population of around a million. Only once have I maybe seen a CB750 or another SOHC on the road in the last 4 years. I think we will get to the point where supply will become increasingly scarce. Wear items like brake pads or even master cylinder rebuild parts will always be around. In another 10-20 years all the rat rods and rough stockers will rust out completely leaving just the garaged cafe, restorations and low mileage stock time capsules. These probably have a long life ahead of them. I'd say NOS parts will dry up significantly in the next ten years.

[Frankenkit]

I live in a group of cities with a combined population of around a million. Only once have I maybe seen a CB750 or another SOHC on the road in the last 4 years. I think we will get to the point where supply will become increasingly scarce. Wear items like brake pads or even master cylinder rebuild parts will always be around. In another 10-20 years all the rat rods and rough stockers will rust out completely leaving just the garaged cafe, restorations and low mileage stock time capsules. These probably have a long life ahead of them. I'd say NOS parts will dry up significantly in the next ten years.

Particularly for bikes that are NOT the 750.  Maybe I'm particularly sensitive to this because 650 aftermarket parts are rare as hen's teeth, (and NOS parts are getting harder and harder to find) but...  There will likely come a time when the only SOHC that people outside of, say, Japan, Thailand and Korea make parts for will be the 750 and only because it's still used there as a taxi/family "car" etc etc, even with 400,000 miles on it.

750 (and to a much lesser extent, 500/550 owners) are spoiled sometimes by companies like Yamiya, Carpy, etc etc who still make aftermarket goods for their bikes.  If you want to see the writing on the wall that some of our bikes are just not as popular with the aftermarket crowd, try looking for stuff made specifically for the 650.   (oh and report back with your findings...)  I love my bike.  I have a 650 "parts" bike to sacrifice to her every need- but that's one more 1980 650c that is no longer on the road.

To say that SOHCs will be around "forever" and are "increasing in number" is to assume somehow that they're still being made.  How does that number work???  If they made, say, 20 million units from 69-79 (just bear with the imaginary numbers here)  and a certain number were wrecked as cager/bike accident casualties,  and many of them ended up backyard bone yards, rotting in the open air because a lot of salvage yards aren't covered... we're left with the few parted with parts kept in a garage/warehouse somewhere, garaged time capsules and bikes that were actually kept in decent condition.   Because we're still riding these bikes, and because cagers and accidents still happen, this running and rideable number is still slowly diminishing.  Look at craigslist.  How many are running or rideable and how many are just degraded shells of what they once were?

I'm all for optimistim, and people are free to disagree with me, but there is just no way you can say we have more CBs on the road now than we did 30 years ago.

[MCRider]

First of all relax.  Sorry about your 650. I'd even forgotten they were made till I started hanging around here.  ITs a rare bird.

I never said "more than 30 years ago". That was the end of the run and probably the highest level of rolling stock ever. The tooling was barely cooled.

I said more from the trough, which probably came 10 years ago. Where the level of actual rideable 750s was at it least. From that trough moving forward, there will be more and more rideable bikes as the ones that were parked get the covers pulled off of them from decades of hibernation. And I say, though I can't prove it, that number is HUGE.

If 3 are uncovered and 2 are parted that still increases the fleet by one.

Just like the comment there are more 32 Fords now than when they were being made. And as long as cars rule the planet there will be 32 Fords. That's nearly 80 years and they aren't peaking. Even if they went into decline from here, it would take another 80 years to wash them out. Same for CB750s. Except I don't expect resurrected numbers to exceed manufactured numbers, it will be a healthy number and support a lively market ... for as long as there are motorcycles.