Topic: When will it all end?

[Old Scrambler]

I am mostly with you.......MC........and others............Honda sold a little more than 50,000 CB750s in each of the 10 years. That makes a little more than a half-million parked in various places in North America. I agree with the pricing plateau.......but note that the best condition NOS or used parts are still increasing.  I have the same economical problem.......I have my original K3 in stock condition, but what do I do with my K0? I have all of the hard to get parts and pieces. The rest is available new? Total cost of about $5000 with new paint, pipes and airbox. It might be worth $10,000 as a late production K0. Do I spend more and work for the profit.........or sell what I have for about the same profit?  Parting a bike makes more people happy! Or I could just hold on a few more years and call it an investment!

[strynboen]

vw sold 100,000 ++ of the transporter,,hippies like them and poor peapel,,then  all throv them all avay..today there is none of them for sale..after 30 years they all gone,,it kan alså happend for sohc even ther is made tons of them..
i just bay all i get klose to..but in europa they are rusty and vith lot of km on..all in bad kondision

[Laminar]

The only reason someone should buy a CB650 is to pull out the cam to use in a 550 and toss the rest of the bike.

*Runs and hides*

[MCRider]

I am mostly with you.......MC........and others............Honda sold a little more than 50,000 CB750s in each of the 10 years. That makes a little more than a half-million parked in various places in North America. I agree with the pricing plateau.......but note that the best condition NOS or used parts are still increasing.  I have the same economical problem.......I have my original K3 in stock condition, but what do I do with my K0? I have all of the hard to get parts and pieces. The rest is available new? Total cost of about $5000 with new paint, pipes and airbox. It might be worth $10,000 as a late production K0. Do I spend more and work for the profit.........or sell what I have for about the same profit?  Parting a bike makes more people happy! Or I could just hold on a few more years and call it an investment!

I've accepted years ago that a hobby is not an investment. Doesn't matter what it is. IT can sometimes be a business.

A 1969/70 CB750 sold around here for $1450. To get $10,000 for one today is about 4.9% per year. And that's bout best case.  From that 4.9% one subtracts the cost of holding and maintaining at the least and reconditioing at the worst. Better in the bank (until recently)  

So its for fun. I'd be thrilled if my project would sell for what I've got in it, looks like it could. But counting in my time, well its a hobby.

Another thing, to stray a bit, is the difference between rare and popular classic. Kit's 650 and a Norton Commando may be rare, the 32 Ford and CB750 are popular classics. Two completely differnt things. Neither better nor worse than each other.  Just different. And of course there is everything in between.

I'm afraid I would be frustrated to tears with a rare bike, though I love(d) the Nortons. And appreciate what others go thru to have their rarities.

[MickeyX]

The only reason someone should buy a CB650 is to pull out the cam to use in a 550 and toss the rest of the bike.

*Runs and hides*

I know. It's good there's some wonderfully engineered donor bike out there that can make those 550s worth something. 

[MCRider]

And back to mycb's original question: "At what point do you think these bikes will start to have real monetary value if ever?"

You'd have to define "real monetary value". I'd say never but that's true of all collectables IMO.  If you get your little time/value calculator out its usually the starting price plus inflation over time. Short time frames have price spurts and air pockets. Longer 20+ time frames, about inflation + a very little.

But short term its a lively market. You can buy and sell what you know, make a little here and there, maybe build something you're happy with, have some fun.

[Hush]

Laminar's blood will be on your hands Kit.
I think part of the charm of owning a SOHC4 is the search for parts (although many times frustraiting) to complete the bike the way you want to.
Barn finds are like gold panning, that glint of colour amongst the gravel and sand makes the heart race, if everyone had one they would be like Toyotas'......anyone seriously think a 2010 Toyota will be collectable in 2040?

[MickeyX]

Hmmm. Well, if you look at the fact that they sold for around $1500 back then, that equates to around $8500 these days. Give or take. That's new price, btw. Then account for everything the bike was put through, the miles added, the #$%* PO messing with it, etc. The fun factor is pretty high but it's hard to quantify so no bonus for that. You get the drift. It all comes down to what it is worth to the buyer.

I used to go to yard sales all the time and I'd make an offer on stuff. They'd spout off how much they paid new, blah blah blah. Then I'd say, I don't care how much you paid for it then, I care how much I'm going to pay for it now.   Yeah, I'm an ass sometimes.  

[The_Crippler]

Maybe I'm particularly sensitive to this because 650 aftermarket parts are rare as hen's teeth, (and NOS parts are getting harder and harder to find) but...If you want to see the writing on the wall that some of our bikes are just not as popular with the aftermarket crowd, try looking for stuff made specifically for the 650.   (oh and report back with your findings...) 

Although most of that was some full-on rage, this chunk is totally, "word."

[Frankenkit]

Although most of that was some full-on rage, this chunk is totally, "word."

rage? oh c'mon, in a spoken tone it was just me being a smartass.
"rage" is window smashing, brick throwing screaming and I haven't seen that since the last political thread.

[The_Crippler]

rage? oh c'mon, in a spoken tone it was just me being a smartass.
"rage" is window smashing, brick throwing screaming and I haven't seen that since the last political thread.

Sorry...internet rage.   

The only reason someone should buy a CB650 is to pull out the cam to use in a 550 and toss the rest of the bike.

*Runs and hides*

Ouch.

[Magpie]

"The only reason someone should buy a CB650 is to pull out the cam to use in a 550 and toss the rest of the bike."

Shouldn't that be on the Elitism thread?

Cliff.

[Henning]

Like the .dotCom bubble and the housing bubble, I believe we're in the middle of a .SOHC bubble and fast approaching the peak. Why? Back in the day the bikes were über desirable, then they became less interesting as newer and better riceburners became available. The market probably hit the bottom in the ninety's when nobody wanted them. Then, old farts like myself started buying them up out of pure nostalgia, and the prices went skyward. But, there's no sense in owning an SOHC these days apart from hobby, and prices are set to crash. These days you can get a four-wheeled tin box that does more miles to the gallon than a 750 and pollutes a lot less. Talk of the SOHC's being useful for 50 more years is just wishfull thinking.

Not that I care.

[Magpie]

Isn't that what's supposed to happen to Harleys too?
Cliff.

[MickeyX]

Isn't that what's supposed to happen to Harleys too?
Cliff.

Well, it's not as though they made Harleys for 10 years and then just quit. Overall, not much has really changed with them and they were considered good bikes but let's face it, none of them made the impact that the CB750 did. My Sportster can't keep up with the sport bikes of today (or yesterday) but it is still considered the sport bike of Harleys. Do I see many old harleys on the road or being resurrected? Nope. There isn't much interest because of the lack of change, I suspect. No nostalgia points when your current bike looks/sounds the same as a 50yo version. No need to keep 'em on the road past their original use for most Harley riders. Not that there aren't enthusiasts but they are rare compared to other brands of bikes that have had a lot of engineering/style changes. Shoot, even Sonny Barger, the head of the Hells Angels said that he wished they had switched to the Hondas years ago since they really are a much better bike overall. Had they done that, I wonder where Harley would be today?

But it makes me wonder a bit and I was just a tot when these were new so I don't know for sure... was the CB750 really that great of an advancement/achievement in motorcycles of the time or was it popular because Mr Honda made it in bulk and the price was $2000 less than other bikes of it's caliber? Not belittle the bike, but I've read many accounts of Honda dealers and buyers (and Soichiro) that accounted for most of the initial popularity coming from the fact that they finally could afford a bike like that with those features and at that larger size that didn't shake itself apart or leak oil everywhere. In reality, looking back at what else was out there at the time, the sizes, the features, this bike was definitely all around the better bike in many ways. Lets face it though, most Americans still had a bit of hatred for the Japanese so the most immediate impact Honda could make was in their wallets to gain attention, hoping that once people rode them, they would love them. The fact that they were making 5-25 bikes per day when they started production shows their initial apprehension. I can only imagine their delight when it was so well received. Then it took on a life of it's own and found its rightful reputation in regards to performance, style and reliability. I'm really glad this gamble paid off for Honda and us.  

[Stev-o]

Bottom line: it will not end in our lifetime!

[andy750]

But, there's no sense in owning an SOHC these days apart from hobby, and prices are set to crash.........Talk of the SOHC's being useful for 50 more years is just wishfull thinking.

A SOHC will continue being useful as long as it functions as a motorcycle....no wishful thinking there ;-). No reason a CB750 cant be rode across the USA, Europe or round the world...still useful for that . For some it may be a hobby but for others its still a mode of transport - the essence of motorcycling - getting from A to B in the best way possible.

[mycb750k6]

I think the actal number was closer to 400,000 I read in one of the forums - but that's world wide.

[Raul CB750K1]

They say that if one discussion is held for some time, Hitler pops up sooner or later.

The same seems to happen with Harley when a discussion about bikes is being held.... :-)

Now let's go to the extreme. All the CB750 has been dismantled and there are just two examples on the face on the earth, and both owners know each other.

One day, the engine of one blow completely, with a rod protruding out of the crankcase. He loves his bike and probably will try to convince the other owner to sell him the engine. How much should he have to offer to convince the other to sell him the engine? If he sells, he will have an unusable bike, so he would only sell the engine as long as the price is, at least, the price of the whole bike.

Then, it is either the man with the broken engine a) pays what the other guy is asking for his bike, b) sells the remains to the other owner or c) have the parts needed custom made. As long as option c) is cheaper than option a) -and chances are it will be-, the two bikes will remain on the road. If the chosen option is b), then the answer to the original question is that there will be parts bikes until the last bike vanishes. We are talking about parts bikes, not about the price of a parts bike. I bet that the price of the second-to-last CB750 ever would not be cheap, but there would be it.

As long as there has been parts bikes before, option c) is out of the question because it is always cheaper to use old parts. But if they doesn't exist, they can always be made. It is just an economic decision, whether the value -value, not cost- of the vehicle to the owner is higher than the cost of the repair.

There are not many Bugattis for parts, but I bet that if you have one, you can get any part you need....

[Nikkisixx]

There is a perception that it is hard to find parts for an old Brit bike .  I have two Triumphs and can testify that I can get ANY part brand new on my doorstep in just a few days from at least 4 reputable dealers.  I have some friends with Nortons, and they say the same.  One supplier in particular has such good customer service that I call him, tell him which bike, what part (no part number required), and my customer number.  Two days later a big brown truck drops the part at my door.

If there is a equivalent Honda parts supplier who and where?  Yes, I can go to my local Honda shop and get good service and [umost[/u] parts for my CBs, and yes there are a lot of after marklet parts available.  However, I can build a complete Norton or Triumph from a catalogue (provided I'm willing to give up my first born). 

There is probably a larger market for Honda parts compared to say Norton, since production numbers were so much higher.  So why do we need to pillage and plunder old bikes for parts?  My theory: The British OEMs never produced parts in large quantity and it was a cottage industry by comparison to the Japanese.  Since the cottages don't have to produce hundreds of thousands of parts to turn a profit, they can survive on the relatively small aftermarket.  Nikkei, Nippon and the like have no interest in making a few hundred parts.  Add to this the fact that the Brits may not have kept tooling and intellectual rights to the parts when production stopped in the eighties and the fact that there are just so many old Hondas to steal parts from with a ready 24/7 swap meet outlet on line, a clean early CB is worth more as parts than sitting on the side of the road with a "for sale" sign on it.


It will end when the only the people who own vintage bikes are in it for the love of it, not the money. 

[MCRider]

I worked in Triumph shops back in 1970 to 73. It is easier to get parts for them now than then!

I have a friend who is reconditioning Triumphs and he tells me the same thing.

The Honda supply liine is just as robust, though it may be different and not so concentrated, spread out over more dealers. And as you say the availability of parts bikes reduces the demand for OEM or pseudo OEM parts.

That's a response to demand from our age group. Its a great lively market.

[sangyo soichiro]

A couple folks mentioned the CBs as investment vs. hobby and I thought I'd throw in my 2¢.  More than anything else, my bike serves as an instrument to educate me.  I didn't know squat about engines before I bought my bike.  Now I'm the guy all my friends come to with their engine-trouble questions.  Having my bike has turned me into a fairly competent weekend mechanic. 

[MickeyX]

So, then my question is... why did they stop making the most popular of the superbikes? The one that really got them noticed around the globe.  I have really wondered about the logic of that move. Why drop that off the list or not offer it again in later production in the country it was most loved? 

Yeah, I read 400,000 world wide too but there is no evidence from Honda that I can find either way. Then there are the other CB sizes of lesser production that are getting harder to source too. I wonder if that affects the # of people wanting a 750? Like, if I had the choice of the 650 or the 750, I would pick the 750 mostly on the fact that it is easier to get parts and a lot cheaper too just because of production #s. The 650 is a good bike, fast enough, just as reliable and has some really good engineering in the power plant but it is so effing hard to get parts for... Will the effect of dwindling parts on the other sizes make more go for the 750 out of sheer ease and thus reduce what's available and drive up the prices eventually too, nostalgia aside? Just a thought. 

btw, I would never buy one of these or restore it as an investment. It's a losing battle.

[Laminar]

So, then my question is... why did they stop making the most popular of the superbikes? The one that really got them noticed around the globe.  I have really wondered about the logic of that move. Why drop that off the list or not offer it again in later production in the country it was most loved? 

Because nine years later is was old technology. Whether or not it was "good" was irrelevant. People wanted dual overhead cams, more displacement, electronic ignition, etc., so the "boring" SOHC was out.

[MickeyX]

Like I said, I wonder where Harley would be now, and the wannabees, if the most influential biker gang in the US had gone with Japanese bikes?  

Oh, and it's really mostly the US who wanted bigger/flashier, according to Honda. They probably still believe that and that is why we ended up with a chopper instead of the newer 750. Someone really needs to walk into their corporate headquarters and straighten them out.