Author Topic: Need some advice....  (Read 2176 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

jeez

  • Guest
Need some advice....
« on: March 10, 2010, 05:49:04 AM »
While I'm new to the rebuild of the CB750, in fact this is my first motorcycle engine, I've done many different auto engines.  I know trouble when I see it....

When I split the crankcase yesterday, I noticed a significant issue.  One of the engine mounting holes on the bottom of the motor had a significant crack in it and in fact crumbled away on inspection.  There isn't much left for the bolt to grab.  To me, this means that the case is now crap.

So, what are my options at this point?  I'm assuming there are 3, but I need input from the experts:
1. Junk the project. 
2. Locate another engine.
3. Locate another crankcase. 

Can you guys please give me your thoughts?  What a crappy Day!!!

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 05:57:25 AM »
Is it possible to post a pic of the problem area so the experts can assess it a little better ?

Offline fang

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 401
    • Food Renegade
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 05:59:38 AM »
Check your PMs.  I sent you my phone number.
Download Nervous Norvus' "The Fang"  HERE.
Tired of eating CRAP!

Offline KB02

  • Take it easy there, Sonny, I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,760
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 06:06:56 AM »
Is it possible to post a pic of the problem area so the experts can assess it a little better ?

+1

Option #4 - Weld it back in place.

With the posting of a pic, we'll be better able to tell if that is a viable option or not.
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
...and a pedal bike

Join the AMA today!!

My project thread Part I: K8 Project "Parts Bike"
My project thread Part II: Finishing (yeah, right) touches on Project "Parts Bike"

jeez

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 07:30:58 AM »







Here are some pics (hope this works).

Also, the missing piece is unavailable.  It crumbled away....nothing left.

jeez

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 07:32:06 AM »
And Fang...thanks for the PM!

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 08:28:30 AM »
What is the white filler by the oil filter mount hiding? It looks it has holes drilled it in. I would have a look there as well to see what's happening.
If you can get a new bottom case for not too much money, I think I would start fresh. That's a strange place for a break like that.
Cliff.

jeez

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 08:30:58 AM »
HAHA!!  the white stuff by the oil filter is a dirt dobber next...This was a barn find.  There are dirt dobber nests everywhere on this thing.
Can you buy just 1/2 a case?  I'd have thought they would have been only a set so that the journals could be machined together?

Offline markb

  • When I finish my current project I might be a
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,615
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 08:33:59 AM »
Since that mount is on the bottom and it sets onto a bolt at that point, in other words its still supported, I don't think the engine will go anywhere.
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 08:44:40 AM »
If that's all it is I would go with markb's advice. Once the motor's in place and the long bolt goes through, it's not going anywhere.
Cliff.

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 09:20:07 AM »
Weld it.

 DO NOT mix cases.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

jeez

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 11:09:48 AM »
I think it was put in the barn because of engine vibration, which would be explained by a broken mount.  Billybob, tell me where the 4 motors are....

754 - Yea, mixing cases can't be a good thing....

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2010, 11:18:05 AM »
I have one with that mount broken tho not that bad. Had it welded back up no problem.

In my case the bike had taken a hit to the lower right side, denting the frame rail. Was your frame beat up in that area?  I figure the PO slid into a curb or hopped a curb or something. Tho I can't imagine what kind of damage to what kind of exhaust pipe.

Could have taken a hit from road debris.

754's right you can't mix and match cases, they are linebored from the factory. I have a set of spares, but welding may be better and quicker. My guy charged me $25, yours needs more build up.

And you could just leave it alone.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 11:21:38 AM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Old Scrambler

  • My CB750K3 has been in 39 States & 5 Provinces
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,812
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2010, 11:22:19 AM »
Weld it and re-drill the hole...............probable cause is dropping the motor on the concrete or a stone in the dirt.

Frank.........My local wrecker has more than a dozen motors..........maybe I should bring a few along on my next trip west..........Oh, its hard to carry more than one on the back of a bike!
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
'66 CL77 Red
'67 Triumph T100C
'73 750K3 Owned since New
'77 750F2 Cafe Project
2020 ROYAL ENFIELD Himalayan

jeez

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2010, 11:26:29 AM »
crap, where the heck do you find a welder to build that up?  That would certainly be cheaper...By the look of it, it appears to have been cracked for many moons.  probably why it was put in a barn at 14K.

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2010, 11:36:25 AM »
crap, where the heck do you find a welder to build that up?  That would certainly be cheaper...By the look of it, it appears to have been cracked for many moons.  probably why it was put in a barn at 14K.
I'm guessing a machinist welder would make a piece and weld it in.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline markb

  • When I finish my current project I might be a
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,615
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2010, 11:41:53 AM »
Even though I said use it I would personally have it welded too.  Where are you?  That might help locate a welder.  If you pull the motor apart I would look for other sources of vibration.  There's a mount on each side above the bottom mount so I don't see the motor vibrating.  For one, these fours are pretty smooth.  Maybe motor vibration caused the break?  Maybe I'm all wet but what does everyone else think?
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)

jeez

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2010, 11:58:06 AM »
I'm in Hillsboro, tx....small town.  I called the machine shop (notice I said, "the").  They said they don't do aluminum any longer, the guy quit, but they gave me his personal phone number to call!  Called and left a message...we'll see what he says.

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2010, 04:34:46 PM »
my welding guy can fix that
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

DaveL

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2010, 04:59:42 PM »
I think I'd mill it out to get to clean aluminum and weld a short piece of heavy wall aluminum tube in there. It'd cause much less heat than building the whole area up with weld.

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2010, 05:09:02 PM »
Looks like the motor's been dropped at some time. If it was in the bike when that happened I would think there would serious major damage to the bike.
Cliff.

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2010, 06:56:24 PM »
Ol Scrambler.. between 1080 and myself, we have 25 or more 750 motors.. :o

 Probably at least 20 with good cases..so I think we are good for a few months...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,480
  • Central Texas
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2010, 03:00:23 AM »
I'm in Hillsboro, tx....small town.  I called the machine shop (notice I said, "the").  They said they don't do aluminum any longer, the guy quit, but they gave me his personal phone number to call!  Called and left a message...we'll see what he says.

Contact a welder that can handle aluminum
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline sangyo soichiro

  • Tuck
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,167
  • ☢ the atomic playboy ☠
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2010, 08:11:42 AM »
I used to be pretty handy with a welder myself.  Personally, I think I'd leave it the way it is.


But if you choose to have it fixed, here's the way I would do it if I were the welder (this is only my semi-experienced opinion):
I wouldn't build it up.  I just have a funny feeling about dumping that much heat and material in a casing like that.  Things move in funny ways when you add enough heat to melt the metal.  Instead, I would mill that area as little as possible, but enough to make it flat.  But when doing this, it's important not to make a sharp edge in the corner as this creates a spot that can crack easy under stress.  Then I'd machine up the mating part that will end up welded in that spot.  I would give both the mating part, and the case a good 45o edge so that when they mate they form a "V".  This allows the weld to fill it in nicely and gives it more strength.  Once I'm happy with the way it fits, it's welding time.  I would use a TIG welder.  And for aluminum, I've always had the welder set on AC (as opposed to DC).  Aluminum is more difficult to weld than steel because it conducts heat away much faster.  Another complication is that cast metals are porous and tend to "spit" and "pop" when melted.  To minimize this "spitting," I'd probably lay the weld down in small strips and build it up that way.  

You can imagine, what I just described might cost a good chunk of money.  Machining the casing and matching part takes time.  

It would be cheaper to just build it up with weld.  And I suppose I could do that too, but it would involve adding material in small strips little by little.  I would probably try a test run just to see how it goes.  But then again, I'd be welding on your case with no guarantees for that test spot.


I have never welded something like that before.  I think a really important question to ask the welder is if they have.  I would find someone that has actually welded something like that before.

Anyway, I hope that might help you when talking to the guy that welds it.  
1974 CB 750
1972 CB 750 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,57974.0.html
1971 CL 350 Scrambler
1966 Black Bomber
Too many others to name…
My cross country trip: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,138625.0.html

Offline strynboen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,889
    • http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=qc99i82hf14ajqcg3o55f9l2b6&/topic,60973.0.html
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2010, 08:59:47 AM »
i vill kut that bad off and get veldet a massive pises of aleminiun i blok..then bore hole up again,,it can easy be done vith mig velding..find a of shore velder,,they make that stoff every day
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

jeez

  • Guest
Re: Need some advice....
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2010, 07:53:49 AM »
Well, I found a donor bike on Craig's list that I picked up yesterday.  Motor isn't seized and the case looks pristine.  The donor bike is a '78 and not a '75 such as mine.  Donor bike had 40,000 miles on it.  My '75 has less than 14,000 miles.

So, new question for the experts....
Looking at the stats, it doesn't appear there are many statistical differences between the 75 and 78 engines.  My thought is to insert the '75 workings into the '78 case.  Anyone have experience or see any issues?
Thanks in advance.