Topic: Oil Cooling!

[GStarIndustries]

So I know that I'm new here and yes I did use the search. (although maybe not that well)

Being that our motors are air cooled and oil cooling is essential I thought it would be
very beneficial to have a thread talking about and discussing oil cooling.

I have seen a few examples while visiting this site for the short time I have been visiting.
I have seen setups using the ports on the motor that connect to the oil tank.

I have seen racing setups like this which I am very curious about and would very much like
to learn more about.







I have also seen setups using the oil filter adapter from shops such as Cycle X



Lets talk about the different options, the most beneficial for each set-up (Street, Race, Endurance, Forced Injection ECT.)
Pictures and descriptions are always welcome

[kghost]

Your pictures don't show.

[Pinhead]

I can see the pics. Very interesting, indeed. Please continue.

[kghost]

Got them now.......

Cool set up.

[bwaller]

That's Team Hansens 350F race bike. I'm not sure if TTR didn't do some parade stuff on that one. KOS might also have more info on this bike. Some of the plumbing and the tank is breather related.

[Ricky_Racer]

Damn, that's purty!!!     RR

[MRieck]

Very clean.

[dusterdude]

damn,thats cool!!!!!!!

[Soos]

I have my own I have rigged up.
I made a adapter for a spin on oil filter with oil cooler mounts for a '84('85?) DOHC cb650 oil cooler.
JUST fits into my fairing snugly with little room to spare.

Hate the fairing look, but enjoy the effects during the 50mile commute to and from work.(each way, 100 miles round trip!... each workday)


lets see if I can get a pic.


found one just before the 1st instillation of either unit.
Can't find a recent one of it's current instillation.

The black bit on the right is the '85 cb650 DOHC original adapter plate, one of the adapters you can see the flats cut on the larger OD area.
The other has no adapter mounts.


My adapter has no bypass though.

however a cover is tempting to make for cold weather riding. Something along what big semi trucks use in northern climates in winter.
Allow for partial blocking to fully blocking the wind.



l8r

[kos]

Quote " KOS might also have more info on this bike."

Terry constructs some very beautiful machines....BUT they never win and sometimes barely make the grid. He goes thru riders like I go thru martinis. Nothing to say about "how it works" as there is no dynamic (ie: running) data.


KOS

[turboguzzi]

very clean bike indeed, just cant see the logic of that vertical tube other then adding some oil capacity. maybe to make it look more "works" after all, team hansen claim that this is a 350 replica.... replica of what, I dont know.

Gstar, I understand your curiosity but cant think of so many different setups like your are listing. basically, you hook up to the oil filter entrance go to cooler and send back oil to the filter with the usual adapter plate.

that said, I have been racing my 500 for three season without problems without an oil cooler. I do change oil every race of course.

Now here's a statement that will cause a stir here....unless the oil cooler is of significant size (say like in air/oil early GSXR's), I just dont believe its going to do something REALLY meaningfull to the temperature of the oil that reaches the bearings.... The main oil gallery is burning hot at race temp. I am prety positive that the oil that goes back in it will pick up most of the heat back in no time. not to talk about the oil that slowly trickles up to the cams that has plenty of time to boil 

In other words, I am sure that even in a small oil cooler there will be some small temp drop between the inlet and exit pipes, but I still think the oil will pick up again that heat in the galleries

I was considering checking an oil cooler lately and try measure if it really drops down the working temp. If I do, I'll try fitting the biggest cooler I find.

OK, flame me now... 

TG

[lordmoonpie]

What's wrong with the good old CR750 cooler setup? It's clean and as KOS points out, it's well proven on track...

[eurban]

Here's the setup I have on my 836 project.  Uses the DOHC 650 cooler with a Lockhart thermostat (180f I think) and an aftermarket adapter plate.  The 650s adapter plate does not directly work with the contours of the 750's engine.  The curved stock 650 hoses coming from the cooler work very well with the spacing on the thermostat.  How much does it help?  Don't know . . .  .

[voxonda]

Have to look for it in my old documentation, but a oilcooler setup on a CB750 (810,836,850,.......)does work! That does not mean it does on a 500/550. It definitely drops the temperature back in the safe zone.
Fact is that a sportier riding style, on or off track gives a 750 a certain thermical load and even with it's, or maybe caused by the, dry sump it suffers from that.
Racing a 750 without a big cooler is asking for trouble.

[wannabridin]

eurban, nice setup there!  id love to have a setup on my bike much like this.  i've been wandering about what the bypass looks like, so that helps!!  so that cooler is directly from a 650?  whats the adapter plate from?  anymore info you can shed on this setup would be appreciated!!  thanks!

[turboguzzi]

Have to look for it in my old documentation, but a oilcooler setup on a CB750 (810,836,850,.......)does work! That does not mean it does on a 500/550. It definitely drops the temperature back in the safe zone.
Fact is that a sportier riding style, on or off track gives a 750 a certain thermical load and even with it's, or maybe caused by the, dry sump it suffers from that.
Racing a 750 without a big cooler is asking for trouble.

thats interesting, never thought about the dry sump having  a sort of negative effect,

in any case,  even big H itself fitted oil coolers on its works racers so hard to argue with that but it would be very interesting to see how much temp drop you actually get in the oil galleries after the cooled oil got heated up again.

dont let my thought stopping you from fitting a cooler though, just thinking aloud 

TG 

[Howell]

On our CB500 racer we use the Voxonda external oilfilter adaptor with a oilcooler of a CB700 Nighthawk and the oilpan of a CB650.
Total oilcapacity now almost 4 litres.
Also we use a temperaturegauge.
Yesterday on the circuit in Croix in French it was cold , but the oiltemperature was still a 110 degrees C.
But this circuit is very short , about two kilometers , and a short straight and many short turns.
When it is warmer and on fast circuits we will see what temperature it gives then.

[mec]

thats interesting, never thought about the dry sump having  a sort of negative effect,

in any case,  even big H itself fitted oil coolers on its works racers so hard to argue with that but it would be very interesting to see how much temp drop you actually get in the oil galleries after the cooled oil got heated up again.

dont let my thought stopping you from fitting a cooler though, just thinking aloud 

TG 

please explain what negative effect a dry sump can have???

every temp degree an oil cooler gives to the cooler air reduces the same amount oil temp which will effect in longer life span of your engine and more power output. regardless if your oil gallery is heating up oil or not.
thats all.

the correct way to go is: measure your oil temp under operating/racing conditions and decide pro or contra an oil cooler.

mec

[voxonda]

I mean to say that eventhough it has a dry sump it still suffers from high oil temps. I personally think a dry sump is the way to go. Also did Honda build the dry sump kit for the DOHC racers for a purpose. But look at the old GP racers they did not have dry sumps, they(Honda) all had wet sumps with big sumps under the engine. Look at the all conquering MV's, no dry sump.
So giving a certain engine a dry sump will not mean you can not have a oil temperature problem. 

[mystic_1]

very clean bike indeed, just cant see the logic of that vertical tube other then adding some oil capacity.

To me it looks like that tube adds capacity, and since it's connected directly to the oil pump, probably serves as a resevoir to make sure that the oil pump never starves for oil.  A fair amount of hydrostatic head there too, so it probably reduces resistance on the oil pump.

mystic_1

[bwaller]

Pretty sure it's just a coincidence the canister is attached near the pump and not actually to the oil pump.

It doesn't add much volume, I always thought it might be a scrubber of some sort, perhaps eliminating some frothing before the cooler??

[mystic_1]

Woops, I see it now.  You're right of course.

mystic_1

[kghost]

I have my own I have rigged up.
I made a adapter for a spin on oil filter with oil cooler mounts for a '84('85?) DOHC cb650 oil cooler.
JUST fits into my fairing snugly with little room to spare.

Hate the fairing look, but enjoy the effects during the 50mile commute to and from work.(each way, 100 miles round trip!... each workday)


lets see if I can get a pic.


found one just before the 1st instillation of either unit.
Can't find a recent one of it's current instillation.

The black bit on the right is the '85 cb650 DOHC original adapter plate, one of the adapters you can see the flats cut on the larger OD area.
The other has no adapter mounts.


My adapter has no bypass though.

however a cover is tempting to make for cold weather riding. Something along what big semi trucks use in northern climates in winter.
Allow for partial blocking to fully blocking the wind.



l8r

Thanks Soos..........

Thats the exact set up I have minus the lines.

Couldn't remember what I stole it off of.

Jogged the ol' memory that did

[eurban]

eurban, nice setup there!  id love to have a setup on my bike much like this.  i've been wandering about what the bypass looks like, so that helps!!  so that cooler is directly from a 650?  whats the adapter plate from?  anymore info you can shed on this setup would be appreciated!!  thanks!

Cooler is from a 80s DOHC 650 nighthawk.  Other DOHCs may use a similar setup.  As I said before, the Honda adapter plate for the DOHC does not work properly with the contours of the 750.  My adapter plate is old aftermarket, manufacturer unknown.  Terry from Australia should be able to hook you up with a similar adapter or one that will also allow you to use a spin on filter.  Perhaps cycleex has something that would work too.  I cut the stock rubber hose off of the curved tubes coming off of the cooler and used 3/8 hose with fuel injection type clamps.  You could of course use more expensive hoses and connectors but I've got about 4 years on my setup with no leaks or issues.  The lockhart thermostat seems to work fine although I do now notice a tiny bit of oil weeping from it.  At one point I did confirm its operation using an IR thermometer.  The thermostat does seem to open up on most rides but it does take a good while to do so.  Basically it seems to be doing its job and I really wouldn't consider (for a street bike) doing an oil cooler without a bypass or thermostat.

[turboguzzi]

thats interesting, never thought about the dry sump having  a sort of negative effect,

in any case,  even big H itself fitted oil coolers on its works racers so hard to argue with that but it would be very interesting to see how much temp drop you actually get in the oil galleries after the cooled oil got heated up again.

dont let my thought stopping you from fitting a cooler though, just thinking aloud 

TG 

please explain what negative effect a dry sump can have???

every temp degree an oil cooler gives to the cooler air reduces the same amount oil temp which will effect in longer life span of your engine and more power output. regardless if your oil gallery is heating up oil or not.
thats all.

the correct way to go is: measure your oil temp under operating/racing conditions and decide pro or contra an oil cooler.

mec

hei Mec

good to "see" you

an oil temp gauge wouldnt be a bad idea indeed.

BTW, we are racing on april 11 in Adria, near Venezia, feel invited

The one possible effect of dry sump is that the oil goes back to a tank that has no finning and little exposure to air, so not really cooling the oil whereas the wet sump is more exposed, has fins but on the other side hotter.... let's say its a dice...

hows the guzzi going?

TG