Topic: from one scientist to the next...

[Duke McDukiedook]

Any of you tried this?

Chat with Albert

Very polite AI

Ask it about the meaning of life, you will be amused.

[Caaveman82]

Any of you tried this?

Chat with Albert

Very polite AI

Ask it about the meaning of life, you will be amused.

That is pretty dang good haha.

EDIT: YOU SAID: Are you pretty much like a magic eight ball?
ALBERT2.0: I don't know whether I am or notmuch like a magic eight ball. But I am I think therefore I am.

[Markcb750]

I have reduced Albert 2.0 to asking what cloths I wear.  It responds odly to questions such as, "what would the lack of detectable gravity waves by the proposed space based laser interferometer would mean to General Relativity?  The AI is promply reduced to asking what I believe it would mean.


when I told it that did not answer my question, it asked about my wardrobe.

 

Planck was another giant in physics, his understanding that infinite frequency required infinite radiation was fundamental to the development of the science that makes modern technology posible.

If you have a chance to read Isaac Asimov's science essays on the development of atomic theory in the first half of the 20th century you will find an interesting story about some really great minds trying to predict the behavior of something they could not see. 

[Caaveman82]

Planck was another giant in physics, his understanding that infinite frequency required infinite radiation was fundamental to the development of the science that makes modern technology posible.

If you have a chance to read Isaac Asimov's science essays on the development of atomic theory in the first half of the 20th century you will find an interesting story about some really great minds trying to predict the behavior of something they could not see. 

I will have to check that out.

[wannabridin]

damn dirty work is keeping me from posting anything in depth currently!!  but great discussions cave and mark!  interesting articles i will need to read asap!

i have always wondered about our observation and how it affects experimental data.  it goes to the simple thought exercise "if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there, does it make a sound?"  we can predict things all day long, but there is no TRUE way to know!!  if an observer is consciously knowing of an experiment happening, how does that affect said experiment?  ALL science could be a fraction of a degree off theoretically.  now when will this new field emerge?  thought physics, or conscious hypothetical physics... 

has anyone read about the experiment where scientists froze light?  interesting to say the least...  http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/18/science/18LIGH.html?pagewanted=1

i shall continue later on.  i love this thread!!  i hope it goes on for a long time!!!

i'll leave you with another great website.  besides sciencedaily.com as my homepage, i have this one as well.  absolutely beautiful and thought-provoking images, which just make you smile 

APOD: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/

[Caaveman82]

i have always wondered about our observation and how it affects experimental data.  it goes to the simple thought exercise "if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there, does it make a sound?"  we can predict things all day long, but there is no TRUE way to know!!  if an observer is consciously knowing of an experiment happening, how does that affect said experiment?  ALL science could be a fraction of a degree off theoretically.  now when will this new field emerge?  thought physics, or conscious hypothetical physics... 

There was a thread on this some time ago, the anwser was "The tree doesn't exist if you are not around."


That is a lot to think about.

[wannabridin]

it's like when a baby closes it's eyes and thinks the world around them disappears if they're not around.  the problem is that we can never remove the observer from the world for experimental purposes.  i guess we need to just wait until our time is up to figure out what really happens... 


there's some amazingly simple concepts in this world that science will never be able to answer with any certainty...

[Caaveman82]

it's like when a baby closes it's eyes and thinks the world around them disappears if they're not around.  the problem is that we can never remove the observer from the world for experimental purposes.  i guess we need to just wait until our time is up to figure out what really happens... 


there's some amazingly simple concepts in this world that science will never be able to answer with any certainty...

Dude I watched this program tonight on the National Geographic channel about planets out of our solar system. IT WAS CRAZY!!

It talked about these planets called 'hot Jupiters' and 'Planemos'. Strange stuff....

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-earth/3637/Videos#tab-Videos/07059_00 - Planemos
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-earth/3637/Videos#tab-Videos/07080_00 - Pulsars
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-earth/3637/Videos#tab-Videos/07058_00 - hot Jupiters

[Markcb750]

it's like when a baby closes it's eyes and thinks the world around them disappears if they're not around.  the problem is that we can never remove the observer from the world for experimental purposes.  i guess we need to just wait until our time is up to figure out what really happens... 


there's some amazingly simple concepts in this world that science will never be able to answer with any certainty...

Heisenberg postulated  that it is impossible to determine both the position and velocity of an electron or any other basic particle with any certainty at the same time.


Measure one more precisely,  the other is known less precisely.


He was not a commenting about the limits of a research,  it is a statement about the nature of particles.


Despite this limit on our ability to measure things we have developed the ability to precisely predict the behavior of atoms to the extent that billions of transistors can be packed onto a wafer the size of your thumbnail.



I guess I do not believe   “there's some amazingly simple concepts in this world that science will never be able to answer with any certainty...”

I think it is amazing how far we have come from believing the world was made of earth, fire, water, and air.

[wannabridin]

i had forgotten i'd said it like that.  it should read, "with precise certainty."  i thought about it for awhile after i posted it, but i just never got around to changing it.  i too agree with you that it's amazing how far we've come from out old ideals.  now can you imagine where we'd be if it wasn't for the dark ages??  400+ years of intellectual suppression

our grasp on how electrons, and other atomic particles behave is astounding, but it's still not the complete picture.  if only we could get the LHC to run the way it's supposed to, maybe we could find some answers...  there will certainly be more questions generated, but a few answers would be nice

sorry this discussion has been slow lately, i haven't been stoking the fire as much as i should be, just have other stuff on my plate and i can't get around to here if i need to talk about something when i need to.  my gf doesn't understand this, nor does she want to, so i can't talk to her either!  thanks for the comments Mark, i look forward to more!

now who here is familiar with Schrodinger?  i have yet to read either In Search of Schrodinger's Cat, or Schrodinger's Kittens, which are sitting on my shelf...  either way, i'd like to hear peoples opinions and thoughts on his work.  with every particle having it's own independent wave function, which describes all necessary attributes, shouldn't one be able to "know" both the momentum and position of a particle?  this is just a thought i've never been able to grasp since i first was introduced to quantum mechanics 5-6 years ago... 

[Caaveman82]

I only know of him because of the movie 'A Serious Man' which is the best movie of all time, to me, replacing ' The Big Lebowski'

[Markcb750]

**Erwin Schrödinger, a quantum mechanics physicist, a contemporary of Niels Bohr.

This website has a nice discussion with Albert 2.0 :

Journey by Starlight

Page down to "Quantum mechanics for cat lovers – Newton strikes back."


As Albert 2.0 points out this feline based experiment points out that attempting to apply rules that seem to apply to atoms to objects containing trillions of atoms is fraught with problems.  

I found the book, "Who’s afraid of Schrödinger’s Cat", by Ian Marshall, Danah Zohar, to be a great source of information about this and other technological wonders.

As a side note, I do not like to just cut and paste, but if y’all would like the information here, rather then clicking on a link  let me know.

[dave500]

the answer is nothing,,like, who remembers what there was before you were born?thats what happens when you die.,but so you dont get scared,religion was invented,of which you have many choices.,i didnt want one.

[Caaveman82]

the answer is nothing,,like, who remembers what there was before you were born?thats what happens when you die.,but so you dont get scared,religion was invented,of which you have many choices.,i didnt want one.

I think religion is more of a tool to scare people, scare them into doing what you want them to do.

[wannabridin]

no religion talk in here!!  this is about science only!!  religion can be appreciated, but not discussed, because that opens up a WHOLE other can of worms!!

[Markcb750]

no religion talk in here!!  this is about science only!!  religion can be appreciated, but not discussed, because that opens up a WHOLE other can of worms!!

What are you going to do with those who believe that science is a religion?


I know it is *******, but people hold their views.


I believe science is the evolution of religion, each attempting to explain the universe. 

************************************************
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I just can't help myself.


But; I support the discussion of religion ban.

**********edits to remove unnecessary baiting

[Caaveman82]

You are bad Mark. 

I agree, no god talk in here. I was just shooting my opinion out there.

[gnarlycharlie4u]

I also am really interested in this sort of thing.
Although my poor little brain can only take so much of this type of thinking before it just gives up.
So most of the time rather than strain to comprehend the incomprehensible like infinity (or zero for that matter) or WHY things work; I'm happy to just accept that things work. Well... that is, if I put it back together the right way

but anywho, excellent post! Good to see so much appreciation for this school of thought.
You all might want to check these out.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html <-about the universe and string theory

Also, some stuff about Steven Hawking and the Black Hole Paradox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox
Hawking Paradox Part 1 Hawking Paradox Part 2
Hawking Paradox Part 3 Hawking Paradox Part 4
3 is where it gets interesting and 4 is something about the rim of the hole
Hawking Paradox Part 5

[Bob Wessner]

They say Hubble has been improved to the point where we can now see back in time to a point 1 billion years after the Big Bang. If it continues to improve to the point where we can see back an additional 1 billion years plus 1, what will we see? 

[wannabridin]

actually, hubble can see even better than that.  but this statement goes back to an area of discussion earlier in this thread about the real "size" of the universe...

Mark, i agree with you that some base science on religion, and just for the record, i believe that they both must be appreciated to understand each other.  i also agree with you that both have stemmed from one another, so it's just like "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"  this is not what that thread is about, but i do believe you shouldn't have to edit any of your opinions, those that can't welcome them like a scientist (ie open to learning even more) can just not post on here...

ok, small rant over   

[sangyo soichiro]

now who here is familiar with Schrodinger?

'dinger's major contribution to QM is this equation:


On the left is the energy operator, and on the right is the Hamiltonian operator.  It is an eigenvalue equation, and in its simplest form can be written as:

Wiki


His other contribution was his gedanken experiment of the cat in the box.

[Markcb750]

actually, hubble can see even better than that.  but this statement goes back to an area of discussion earlier in this thread about the real "size" of the universe...

Mark, i agree with you that some base science on religion, and just for the record, i believe that they both must be appreciated to understand each other.  i also agree with you that both have stemmed from one another, so it's just like "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"  this is not what that thread is about, but i do believe you shouldn't have to edit any of your opinions, those that can't welcome them like a scientist (ie open to learning even more) can just not post on here...

ok, small rant over   

Rant, that's not a rant...

Religion needs to be understood as a part of human history  Religion has no need of science.  With the possible exception of finding more people to convince to give money.

Science needs religion only to understand its own biases. 

Like dinosaurs and birds diverged, Science and Religion have diverged.  Who knows which one will survive in the future, but I’ll place my bet on the magic at Intel, those who want to place their bets on the magic of Moses and Mohammad  have at it.





Back to the size thing.

down the rabbit hole.


The link above takes you to a brief article titles “Our Universe at Home Within a Larger Universe? So Suggests Physicist's Wormhole Research’  it is a report on physicists working on solutions to Einstein’s equations and how particles travel as they enter the event horizon of a black hole. This work points out how this predicted motion resembles the predicted motion through an Einstein-Rosen Bridge (wormhole). 


It is pointed out that this motion also fits the black hole-Einstein-Rosen Bridge-white hole scenario predicted by some scientist/philosophers.  It opens the we live in a black hole with matter/energy flowing from the event horizon of a black hole in another universe.

It connects with the multiverse theory of everything…

It connects with current string theories need for 11 dimensions to be a theoretically correct method of describing the nature of things.

Tracks in the snow. (As I am found of saying.)


Back to the 10^70 J of energy;  is this closer to zero or infinity?

This type of thought problem leads me to my belief that we exist in an infinity, in a black hole, on a membrane, doesn’t matter as long as our ability to understand it allows me to live a better life. 


Mark

[wannabridin]

Science needs religion only to understand its own biases.  



Back to the 10^70 J of energy;  is this closer to zero or infinity?

good things there Mark.  i like the way you put this, but being that i believe in science and faith, i think one helps explain the other, but only on certain ends, not in the middle.  that's what constants are for!!  




what exists between zero and infinity?

[Caaveman82]

what exists between zero and infinity?

Five.

[Markcb750]

Everything exists between zero and infinity, whatever you concieve that to be.

The middle of an infinity is a non sequitur.

Any point you can name has an infinity to each side...


Back to my question...

Back to the 10^70 J of energy;  is this closer to zero or infinity?