Topic: health care bill

[tramp]

looks like the health care passes, now what
whats your take
i think that health care did need revamping just not right now
not enough money in the till
i believe we will be a hurting unit in about four years

[Bob Wessner]

I also believe that this thread will devolve very soon after this into another "debate" and/or shouting match in text form.  It may be locked because as we state and reiterate our beliefs, we try in vain to convince others they are wrong instead of just leaving a statement of our feelings on the matter for others to read and process as they will.

Let's hope not.

They had to start some place, though it falls short of what I feel is needed. It focuses on healthcare financing reform more than healthcare reform, but perhaps that will come. 

[BeSeeingYou]

The idea of putting it off is just an excuse for doing nothing.  This has been a growing problem for decades and nothing was done because it's a tough issue.  We finally have some political leaders who have the courage to do something about it. This is hardly perfect but I look at it as a framework for long term reform.  On thing I found dismaying about the whole debate is how the obvious special interest/corporate influence makes it difficult to enact any real change that is a benefit to all Americans and not just the special few.

[patriotictex]

Last I checked our country was developed becuase we were trying to get away from the ideals of having a government run country.  Our country was built on the idea that we would not have only one religion, and we had freedoms.  Now the government gets to tell us if we get to live by pursuing treatment or die because they don't want to spend the money.  Good bye to all the grandmothers and grandfathers in the United States.  I knew this was going to be bad when the first presidential decision made by Nobama was to shut down Gitmo and invite the terrorists who are in custody for murdering thousands of Americans into our country on our soil.

[BeSeeingYou]

Last I checked our country was developed becuase we were trying to get away from the ideals of having a government run country.  Our country was built on the idea that we would not have only one religion, and we had freedoms.  Now the government gets to tell us if we get to live by pursuing treatment or die because they don't want to spend the money.  Good bye to all the grandmothers and grandfathers in the United States.  I knew this was going to be bad when the first presidential decision made by Nobama was to shut down Gitmo and invite the terrorists who are in custody for murdering thousands of Americans into our country on our soil.

Welcome to the forum Sarah Palin.   Let's try and stay with the facts and not silly talking points.

[patriotictex]

Last I checked our country was developed becuase we were trying to get away from the ideals of having a government run country.  Our country was built on the idea that we would not have only one religion, and we had freedoms.  Now the government gets to tell us if we get to live by pursuing treatment or die because they don't want to spend the money.  Good bye to all the grandmothers and grandfathers in the United States.  I knew this was going to be bad when the first presidential decision made by Nobama was to shut down Gitmo and invite the terrorists who are in custody for murdering thousands of Americans into our country on our soil.

Welcome to the forum Sarah Palin.   Let's try and stay with the facts and not silly talking points.

Okay will do there Barack........your health care reform is not needed and all it does is once again make the people who have worked their way to the top pay for those who choose to feed off the rest of us.  Or am I mistaken that they have reported numerous times that we don't have the money for this reform and as such taxes may need to be increased again.

[BobbyR]

It is not over yet. It is supposed to roll out over a protracted period of time. A lot can happen and probably will. Interesting backstory. It idea first started with Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman had a version and surprisingly Richard Nixon had a plan many consider the best thought out plan. Here is the timeline and a lot can change over the years.

This is the last I will post on this topic. This is just information. Here is the time line as it stands today:



WASHINGTON - Here are the effective dates of major provisions of the health care overhaul legislation now being considered in Congress:

WITHIN A YEAR

- Would provide a $250 rebate this year to Medicare prescription drug beneficiaries whose initial benefits run out.

90 days after enactment:

- Would provide immediate access to high-risk pools for people with no insurance because of pre-existing conditions.

Six months after enactment:

- Would bar insurers from denying people coverage when they get sick.

- Would bar insurers from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.

- Would bar insurers from imposing lifetime caps on coverage.

- Would require insurers to allow people to stay on their parents' policies until they turn 26.

2011

- Would require individual and small group market plans to spend 80 percent of premium dollars on medical services. Large group plans would have to spend at least 85 percent.

2013

- Would increase the Medicare payroll tax and expand it to dividend, interest and other unearned income for singles earning more than $200,000 and joint filers making more than $250,000.

2014

- Would provide subsidies for families earning up to 400 percent of poverty level, currently about $88,000 a year, to purchase health insurance.

- Would require most employers to provide coverage or face penalties.

- Would require most people to obtain coverage or face penalties.

2018

- Would impose a 40 percent excise tax on high-end insurance policies.

2019

- Would expand health insurance coverage to 32 million people.

SOURCES: Speaker of the House, Congressional Budget Office, Kaiser Family Foundation

[demon78]

I hope it works out for you guys and as a thought it is a measure of the civility of a nation in how it treats all of it's citizenry.
Bill the demon.

[BeSeeingYou]

Last I checked our country was developed becuase we were trying to get away from the ideals of having a government run country.  Our country was built on the idea that we would not have only one religion, and we had freedoms.  Now the government gets to tell us if we get to live by pursuing treatment or die because they don't want to spend the money.  Good bye to all the grandmothers and grandfathers in the United States.  I knew this was going to be bad when the first presidential decision made by Nobama was to shut down Gitmo and invite the terrorists who are in custody for murdering thousands of Americans into our country on our soil.

Welcome to the forum Sarah Palin.  Let's try and stay with the facts and not silly talking points.

Okay will do there Barack........your health care reform is not needed and all it does is once again make the people who have worked their way to the top pay for those who choose to feed off the rest of us.  Or am I mistaken that they have reported numerous times that we don't have the money for this reform and as such taxes may need to be increased again.

More talking points.  Thank goodness for the ignore button. You're on a roll.  8 posts and already three members ignoring you.

[TwoTired]

My Brother in law sent me this from Texas.  Hope you enjoy reading it.  

As Ms. Pelosi said this week: "We need to pass this bill so that we can find out what's in it"!!!  Well here's a preview of what is going to be crammed down your throat next week.
    
THIS IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL
Subject: : Judge Kithil of  Marble Falls  ,  TX  - HB3200 highlighted pages most egregious
Please read this........ especially the reference to pages 58 & 59

JUDGE KITHIL wrote:
"I have reviewed selected sections of the bill, and find it unbelievable that our Congress, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, could come up with a bill loaded with so many wrong-headed elements."
"Both Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the financial mess of both Social Security and Medicare programs."
"I am opposed to HB 3200 for a number of reasons. To start with, it is estimated that a federal bureaucracy of more than 150,000 new employees will be required to administer HB3200.  That is an unacceptable expansion of a government that is already too intrusive in our lives.  If we are going to hire 150,000 new employees, let's put them to work protecting our borders, fighting the massive drug problem and putting more law enforcement/firefighters out there."

                  
JUDGE KITHIL continued:  "Other problems I have with this bill include:

** Page 50/section 152:  The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

** Page 65/section 164:  The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

** Page 203/line 14-15:  The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax.  (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

** Page 241 and 253:  Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.

** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations.  Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counceling.)

** Page 429,  line 13-25:  The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

HAD ENOUGH?  Judge Kithil then goes on:

"Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress.  Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick 'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future."

                   Honorable David Kithil
                     Marble Falls  ,  Texas

[BeSeeingYou]

It is not over yet. It is supposed to roll out over a protracted period of time. A lot can happen and probably will. Interesting backstory. It idea first started with Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman had a version and surprisingly Richard Nixon had a plan many consider the best thought out plan. Here is the timeline and a lot can change over the years.

This is the last I will post on this topic. This is just information. Here is the time line as it stands today:



WASHINGTON - Here are the effective dates of major provisions of the health care overhaul legislation now being considered in Congress:

WITHIN A YEAR

- Would provide a $250 rebate this year to Medicare prescription drug beneficiaries whose initial benefits run out.

90 days after enactment:

- Would provide immediate access to high-risk pools for people with no insurance because of pre-existing conditions.

Six months after enactment:

- Would bar insurers from denying people coverage when they get sick.

- Would bar insurers from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.

- Would bar insurers from imposing lifetime caps on coverage.

- Would require insurers to allow people to stay on their parents' policies until they turn 26.

2011

- Would require individual and small group market plans to spend 80 percent of premium dollars on medical services. Large group plans would have to spend at least 85 percent.

2013

- Would increase the Medicare payroll tax and expand it to dividend, interest and other unearned income for singles earning more than $200,000 and joint filers making more than $250,000.

2014

- Would provide subsidies for families earning up to 400 percent of poverty level, currently about $88,000 a year, to purchase health insurance.

- Would require most employers to provide coverage or face penalties.

- Would require most people to obtain coverage or face penalties.

2018

- Would impose a 40 percent excise tax on high-end insurance policies.

2019

- Would expand health insurance coverage to 32 million people.

SOURCES: Speaker of the House, Congressional Budget Office, Kaiser Family Foundation

thanks for that concise explanation Bobby.
One thing I would add as it's so easy to demonize is the required buy in.  It goes hand in hand with the preexisting condition provision.  Otherwise people would wait till they got sick or needed serious medical care and only then buy insurance.

[Spanner 1]

Great countries, both big and small, realise that their PEOPLE are their major asset and educate them accordingly, give them equal access to the care of their health ( helped according to means ) and do not allow any of their citizens live in poverty................ ( I think I just described Europe!).

[Bob Wessner]

My Brother in law sent me this from Texas.  Hope you enjoy reading it.  

As Ms. Pelosi said this week: "We need to pass this bill so that we can find out what's in it"!!!  Well here's a preview of what is going to be crammed down your throat next week.
    
THIS IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL
Subject: : Judge Kithil of  Marble Falls  ,  TX  - HB3200 highlighted pages most egregious
Please read this........ especially the reference to pages 58 & 59

JUDGE KITHIL wrote:
"I have reviewed selected sections of the bill, and find it unbelievable that our Congress, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, could come up with a bill loaded with so many wrong-headed elements."
"Both Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the financial mess of both Social Security and Medicare programs."
"I am opposed to HB 3200 for a number of reasons. To start with, it is estimated that a federal bureaucracy of more than 150,000 new employees will be required to administer HB3200.  That is an unacceptable expansion of a government that is already too intrusive in our lives.  If we are going to hire 150,000 new employees, let's put them to work protecting our borders, fighting the massive drug problem and putting more law enforcement/firefighters out there."

                  
JUDGE KITHIL continued:  "Other problems I have with this bill include:

** Page 50/section 152:  The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

** Page 65/section 164:  The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

** Page 203/line 14-15:  The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax.  (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

** Page 241 and 253:  Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.

** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations.  Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counceling.)

** Page 429,  line 13-25:  The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

HAD ENOUGH?  Judge Kithil then goes on:

"Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress.  Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick 'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future."

                   Honorable David Kithil
                     Marble Falls  ,  Texas

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

[BobbyR]

A bit more information about what is in the Bill. While they are not really conflicting I see more clarity and still I do not understand it all.

By CBS News Capitol Hill Producers Jill Jackson and John Nolen

Coverage:

    * Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.

Health Insurance Exchanges:

    * The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
    * Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.
    * Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.

Subsidies:

    * Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

Federal Poverty Level for family of four is $22,050

Paying for the Plan:

    * Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
    * Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
    * Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

Medicare:

    * Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.
    * Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.

Medicaid:

    * Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.
    * Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.
    * Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.
    * Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.

Insurance Reforms:

    * Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.
    * Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.
    * Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans through age 26.

Abortion:

    * The bill segregates private insurance premium funds from taxpayer funds. Individuals would have to pay for abortion coverage by making two separate payments, private funds would have to be kept in a separate account from federal and taxpayer funds.
    * No health care plan would be required to offer abortion coverage. States could pass legislation choosing to opt out of offering abortion coverage through the exchange.

**Separately, anti-abortion Democrats worked out language with the White House on an executive order that would state that no federal funds can be used to pay for abortions except in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother. (Read more here)

Individual Mandate:

    * In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Employer Mandate:

    * Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

Immigration:

    * Illegal immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the exchanges -- even if they pay completely with their own money.

[turin39789]

It's a good start but it doesn't go far enough, and I'm a career health insurance employee.

The one big thing it does fix is coverage for pre-existing conditions. There are a lot of people who are unable to buy insurance at any cost now because in one way or another they were pushed out and can't get back in. A lot of these people are very sick, and there is no way to let these people get into the insurance pool unless we also add a lot of health people - so everyone has to get covered. 

If you look at the cost of extensive emergency care, NICU's and senior care, the amount of $$ money you expect to be able to take in as a benefit only works if you are paying in for a long period of time.  Since we can't expect the 3 day old to have $250k+ saved up for insurance bills, or the 20 year old who has a catastrophic accident, or even the adult who has saved to be able to pay for chemo, we have insurance that we pay into to pool our risk.

There is more that can be done on the physician and general reimbursement side but that will come down the road. Most of these vague talking points that are posted about on page xxx of the bill come off as laughable to me, most of them are twisted or exagerated to say something they actually do not say, or they involve a lot of the stupid bull#$%* language that is common in the industry that has built up over the years and are very counterintuitive to understand. 
y
There was probabl more compormise in this bill thatn their needed to be, because of politices the repubs had to make it a bill to stop at any costs, because they want it to be a failed presidency, and there has been a lot of horese#$%* flung around(I'm inkentucky so I know my horse#$%* too).  Getting pre-ex finally taken care of is very freeing and beneficial for not just the sick but also for small business ownsers.  AS a young professional, once I got used to having group insurance, it meant I couldn't take many opportunities because the only responsibile route was to stay with a major corporation so I could obtain group subsidized employer healthcare, now we are sharing the burden more evenly and takign it off of those who have tried to prop up the system on their own.

[BeSeeingYou]

My Brother in law sent me this from Texas.  Hope you enjoy reading it.  

As Ms. Pelosi said this week: "We need to pass this bill so that we can find out what's in it"!!!  Well here's a preview of what is going to be crammed down your throat next week.
    
THIS IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL
Subject: : Judge Kithil of  Marble Falls  ,  TX  - HB3200 highlighted pages most egregious
Please read this........ especially the reference to pages 58 & 59

JUDGE KITHIL wrote:
"I have reviewed selected sections of the bill, and find it unbelievable that our Congress, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, could come up with a bill loaded with so many wrong-headed elements."
"Both Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the financial mess of both Social Security and Medicare programs."
"I am opposed to HB 3200 for a number of reasons. To start with, it is estimated that a federal bureaucracy of more than 150,000 new employees will be required to administer HB3200.  That is an unacceptable expansion of a government that is already too intrusive in our lives.  If we are going to hire 150,000 new employees, let's put them to work protecting our borders, fighting the massive drug problem and putting more law enforcement/firefighters out there."

                  
JUDGE KITHIL continued:  "Other problems I have with this bill include:

** Page 50/section 152:  The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

** Page 65/section 164:  The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

** Page 203/line 14-15:  The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax.  (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

** Page 241 and 253:  Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.

** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations.  Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counceling.)

** Page 429,  line 13-25:  The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

HAD ENOUGH?  Judge Kithil then goes on:

"Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress.  Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick 'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future."

                   Honorable David Kithil
                     Marble Falls  ,  Texas

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Good reason not to believe everything you hear from a brother in law in Texas much less the Honorable David Kithil.  In the interest of full disclosure I have two brothers in Texas but they have not sent me any emails yet.  When they do I will let you know.

[bucky katt]

some good and some bad there, i'm on medicaidfinally 3 years after breaking my neck. i truly hope this works out but i'm not going to hold my breath.

[BeSeeingYou]

It's a good start but it doesn't go far enough, and I'm a career health insurance employee.

The one big thing it does fix is coverage for pre-existing conditions. There are a lot of people who are unable to buy insurance at any cost now because in one way or another they were pushed out and can't get back in. A lot of these people are very sick, and there is no way to let these people get into the insurance pool unless we also add a lot of health people - so everyone has to get covered.  

If you look at the cost of extensive emergency care, NICU's and senior care, the amount of $$ money you expect to be able to take in as a benefit only works if you are paying in for a long period of time.  Since we can't expect the 3 day old to have $250k+ saved up for insurance bills, or the 20 year old who has a catastrophic accident, or even the adult who has saved to be able to pay for chemo, we have insurance that we pay into to pool our risk.

There is more that can be done on the physician and general reimbursement side but that will come down the road. Most of these vague talking points that are posted about on page xxx of the bill come off as laughable to me, most of them are twisted or exagerated to say something they actually do not say, or they involve a lot of the stupid bull#$%* language that is common in the industry that has built up over the years and are very counterintuitive to understand.  
y
There was probabl more compormise in this bill thatn their needed to be, because of politices the repubs had to make it a bill to stop at any costs, because they want it to be a failed presidency, and there has been a lot of horese#$%* flung around(I'm inkentucky so I know my horse#$%* too).  Getting pre-ex finally taken care of is very freeing and beneficial for not just the sick but also for small business ownsers.  AS a young professional, once I got used to having group insurance, it meant I couldn't take many opportunities because the only responsibile route was to stay with a major corporation so I could obtain group subsidized employer healthcare, now we are sharing the burden more evenly and takign it off of those who have tried to prop up the system on their own.

Thanks for that post turin
     We are good friends with a couple who have been teaching overseas in various countries for the last 20 years and came back to the U.S. to retire.  She was not old enough to qualify for medicare and having had cancer 30 years ago could not get insurance or what was available was so expensive as to be impossible.  They lasted one year in the U.S. and had to go back overseas for two years.  They were in a sense "health care refugees".  Luckily they landed great jobs in Bangkok.
      My wife and I are both self employed so we have to buy insurance on our own.  My wife takes a prescription med for migraines and the insurance companies consider it a preexisting condition and she can only get a high deductible plan.
      What has been really disgusting is the display put on by the opposition activists.  The shouts of ni**er and fa**ot, the Tea Party protesters being abusive to the man with Parkinson's, spitting on members of Congress, etc, etc.   It's no longer just the health care bill, it's about the Republicans' shameful silence in the face of escalating hatred and divisiveness on the part of Tea Party members.  The fact that some Republicans' officials seem to encourage it is even more distressing.  I guess they showed their true colors.  
      

[GammaFlat]

Good reason not to believe everything you hear from a brother in law in Texas much less the Honorable David Kithil.  In the interest of full disclosure I have two brothers in Texas but they have not sent me any emails yet.  When they do I will let you know.

I have read Kithil's claims and the "rebuttal".  I am leaning toward the judge's arguments.  I'm concerned that the "fact check" is not being completely "factual" or open.  Our constitution is what is at stake.  Our constitution does not allow the government to force us to buy a product (health insurance).  This plan forces the issue.  It is unconstitutional.  As one "point of fact" that "fact check" is disputing: Illegal aliens (or undocumented citizens as they're called now... which happen to be a marvellous voting block for those giving away all the candy) are the next target by the Dems... for amnesty, after which they'll get health care - so who is fooling who?  This is really a huge shell game to empower the Dems.  I dislike most politicians and political groups.  I like those groups less that are trying to grab more power.  More power to the government means more money out of my wallet and less personal control over my own life.  Why am I paying for other people who are less responsible with their health and finances?  ...and by the way, it's pretty hard to be turned down (before this new law) for health care.  Just show up in an emergency room and tell them you have a cold.  

I believe the largest problem to attack in health care (I'd be fine if it were just left alone) is our legal system.  We cannot have people "winning the lottery" by suing a doctor for millions when things didn't go perfectly.  

[Spanner 1]

This health care bill gives YOU more power, Gamma, NOT the health care corporations, NOT the Government......in 5 years time this will be a total non-issue as you will have enjoyed, along with countless other Americans, better health care access and it will be 'taken for granted' and some other issue will be argued... how about education for all ( including free college)...I'm such a SOCIALIST..!!

[Duke McDukiedook]

Until the public option happens this is all just a joke.

All the clowns in Washington and the insurance companies are laughing at the us all the way to the bank.

[BeSeeingYou]

Paying for the Plan:

    * Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

Ahh...This may be part of the reason that Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner opposes the bill.  One look at him and you realize this will cost him a fortune.

[Don R]

I know a kid who was born with heart problems had them repaired under his dads insurance grew up and is now uninsurable. He works and deserves some protection. If anyone is worried about paying for uninsured people, don't worry you already are.

[Spanner 1]

The U.S may never catch-up with the rest of the developed world as regards health care and education...sorry, got left behind on that one..... 3rd. world countries are way ahead and taking the jobs.........feeding the Corporations is the duty of all U.S. citizens at minimum wage...

[BeSeeingYou]

I know a kid who was born with heart problems had them repaired under his dads insurance grew up and is now uninsurable. He works and deserves some protection. If anyone is worried about paying for uninsured people, don't worry you already are.

Well, I guess according to some here he is just "less responsible with his health and finances".

A similar situation to my friends mentioned earlier and a good point about paying for the uninsured.