Topic: health care bill

[Spanner 1]

But, but I earn $1-an-hour more than you, so I MUST be a better person than you, slacker, and thus deserve better healthcare that you just can't have... got it ?!

[traveler]

not better at all.

I have been VERY poor.....at no time did I ever think I was entitled to someone else paying my way.

Apparetnly, folks these days see things a bit differently.

No one is saying you can't have it....all there saying is you have to provide for your own needs.  If we want to provide for everyone's basic needs....then get ready for your taxes to go WAY up.  If I am truly in the minority on this....then why did it take congress 6+ months to get it through.

And again....why did Congress exempt themselves from this program?

Too many of you are trying to paint me as being aginst people who work......my problem is with those that work, but yet believe that more should be given and therefore less earned.  Used to be you sometimes had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.....now people are "comfy" and want to work only one, and have things they cannot afford paid for by someone else.  It's too easy to say "the government should provide it"....yet, not mention where the money will come from.  Just becaseu you have no problem having your taxes raised, dosen't mean everyone else does!

One of the reasons Illegals are doing more and more construction work, is becasue they are actually WILLING to bust their a$$ at work.  Americans are not as willing to give 100%.  I saw it all the time when I was slinging tools years ago.

~Joe

[traveler]

Where does it all end?  At some point, they will moan that everyone has the "right" to a house.  should we provide them with a house?  I mean...it's not their fault they can't earn 50,000+ as a waitress.....

"The problem with Socialism, is eventually you run out of other people's money"~Margaret Thatcher

~joe

[Spikeybike]

One of the reasons Illegals are doing more and more construction work, is becasue they are actually WILLING to bust their a$$ at work.  Americans are not as willing to give 100%.  I saw it all the time when I was slinging tools years ago.

~Joe

WRONG  ... they do it because, they'll take 60-70% less then us .. and they don't care about unions.. or vacations.. or health care.. or decent working conditions       .....ya know, the American way 

[Duke McDukiedook]

No kidding- they're literally willing to work for peanuts since NAFTA helped to ruin their economy.

And our borders are kept purposely loose to keep 'em coming north to take advantage of the better life here.

With no real want or need to reform illegal worker status, too many people are making money off it to change it.

And we all suffer in turn. 

[HavocTurbo]

Where does it all end?  At some point, they will moan that everyone has the "right" to a house.  should we provide them with a house?  I mean...it's not their fault they can't earn 50,000+ as a waitress.....

"The problem with Socialism, is eventually you run out of other people's money"~Margaret Thatcher

~joe

Well that's certainly not what I'm saying...

If you are a documented contributor to society (ie ss number, checkstub, picture ID, actual citizen) then why not get "free" medical care?

You'd think that if we took all of the money coming from Medicare/Medicaid and put it to good use, and then stopped using it when it wasn't needed, there'd be some sort of surplus at times. Maybe even all the time.

I'm not saying a free handout for everyone..... I'm saying a standard of medical care is a foundation of a modern society.

Come to think of it, aside from my two accidents this year... I haven't been to a doctor for anything.

I don't recall ever offering a free house to anyone. Or a motorcycle.

[HavocTurbo]

Free motorcycles, though, would be a major benefit for the psychiatric health of everyone. Sign me up for one. Maybe two.  I'm pretty sick.

I don't know that 100 bikes could cure what you have.

 

But Mickey.... she might be salvageable. That Honda disease is pretty hard to cure.

[ryder60]

"The problem with Socialism, is eventually you run out of other people's money"~Margaret Thatcher

~joe

-----------

I always love this quote.  It sounds so conclusive.  But wait a minute!  Didn't her own party throw her out?  Don't most of the economic woes of the country go back to her government?  Didn't she and Ronnie invent voodoo economics?  Apparently growing up over your father's grocery store makes you so much wiser than anybody else.  (What I will say is that she had bigger balls that Reagan and told him what to say and when to say it.)

The problem with laissez-faire capital is that sooner or later you lose it making foolish bets that are dictated by the ideology of the system itself.  You can quote me.

[Spanner 1]

It's NOT Socialism to have equal access to healthcare for everyone, irrespective of means , it's the right thing to do in a society that claims all that it claims ( about equality and Christian roots ) .... elsewhere healthcare is a SERVICE to the people, same as water, gas, electricity.. and if you have the money, there is always 'private' clinics etc., if you can't bear to be with the ' plebs'.......

[Markcb750]

Looks like Health and Human Services which covers the Federal part of government health care costs $2150 per citizen.

Estimated  with 350M people.

HHS budget for of $737B.


Each State picks up part of the government health care through mandates, I would have to do more research to know what that is for NC.

I looks like NC spends about $18.5B on healtcare, about 12.5B comes from something called "receipts" (might be federal money), leaving 6B for the NC taxpayer to provide.  

about 9.4M people leads to about $640/taxpayer

Making the total paid by our government $2750 per NC taxpayer...

Plus most of us have insurance, in our case this is another 6000 per year...

My Workers Comp is about 850 last year.

My wife's was smaller probably about 500 paid by her employer.

A lot of money, and it does not include the 1000 or so in copays for my drugs and doctor visits...  


How could a single payer be any worse?

[demon78]

Socialism seems to be a big Bugaboo to some but in the modern world what industrialize country isn't? All of them has post offices ,defense, federal police and so on, if you get to a certain size you need national services and to maintain that you need taxes, standing at the cabin door with squirrel gun ready to defend your rights as a freeman was OK a 100-150 years ago, but doesn't work now, you'd have to loose several billion people to make it work, so now catching up with 20th century why is it wrong to educate your citizenry, defend them, keep them healthy, ( a downside of not keeping them healthy, is, there is a bigger pool of disease, which means more mutations in the diseases and more chance to infect you.) I don't see why you wouldn't want them healthy and educated, it means you are protecting your own butt. Another thing, what country wasn't founded on personal achievement? I know mine was as sure as hell put together by individuals.
Bill the demon.

[DaytonGuy]

keep in mind that the republicans were supposedly against this bill. Lets see if they get control of congress and try to remove it.

Hell no they won't.....   Do you think they will take healthcare away from 25 million people who didn't have it before.  They would certainly loose votes the next time around.

I personally think Traveller is really missing the point, or maybe he just can't bring himself to look down far enough to see the real people at the bottom.  There are certainly people who abuse the wellfare system.  You see that everyday.  I agree that there should be something done about that, but to lump every other hard working American who happens to be in a low paying job into the " that dumb ass should have made a better decision before he decided to become a teacher" category is utterly ridiculous.  By your measure, that guy really need to get out and work 2 maybe 3 jobs, so he can provide healthcare for his family.

The fact of the matter is we all pay under either system.  We get taxed and pay into a system that helps provide healthcare for all or we subsidize those who can't afford care through increased insurance premiums because those folks don't pay their bills.  If I'm going to pay for this regardless, I much happier paying into a system that lets everyone have access to healthcare.

Private health insurance is a joke anyway.  Around here while the inflation rate was in the 1-2% range, our health insurance premiums were going up 28% - 30%.  WTF is that all about?  At that rate, how does anyone keep up regardless of their income level?

BTW...where do I sign the petition for the National Motocycle Bill?  Until I get my cb550 back together I figure I could ride one of Uncle Sam's bikes for while.  Sounds good to me!!!!

[BobbyR]

This is truly a circular argument and could become as large as the Babe Thread and much less fun. We have people on one hand that see universal Health care as a hand out, and some as a hand up. I would doubt that either side would have a moment of clarity and see the opposing point of view.

IN SHORT, THIS THING IS GOING NOWHERE AND NEVER WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaytonGuy]

BobbyR.....maybe you could post some babe pictures to support your arguments......Most of those women are very "healthy".  It would make this thing much more exciting too.......

[Markcb750]

This is truly a circular argument and could become as large as the Babe Thread and much less fun. We have people on one hand that see universal Health care as a hand out, and some as a hand up. I would doubt that either side would have a moment of clarity and see the opposing point of view.

IN SHORT, THIS THING IS GOING NOWHERE AND NEVER WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well neither does the Babe thread, its just boobs,butt, boobs, butt, butt...

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah but boobs and butts on women are nice to look at! Well some women anyways.

This is just like any other political thread though. They never get anywhere. I don't think I have ever seen one instance where a person totally or even partially changed their viewpoint.

[BobbyR]

This woman lives in a Country with Universal Health care. She is smiling and confident since she knows if she falls off that contraption, she will be cared for and not suffer economic hardship.  

[Inigo Montoya]

Wonder how much wind blows up the skirt!

[Retro Rocket]

Joe , you have no idea what you are talking about, "Crime went up 44% after guns were banned" , compared to what, that is the biggest load of #$%* i have ever heard and it is quite obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Our crime rate doesn't even compare to yours and gun crime is just about non existent and the rise in crime in Australia is more related to immigration than anything else. Some of the statements you have made are just uneducated rants, how the hell do expect any society to survive without the people that do the real work, people choose to be teachers because thats what they are good at and if you think we'll be any better off without education then you are off with the fairies, what about shop assistants, waiters, taxi drivers, bus drivers and even the police for that matter, none of which have high paying jobs. I think you need to start thinking of the roll on effect of having no one to do these jobs Joe as your wonderful society would cease to function without them, they are the life blood of our society so why shouldn't they be able to stay healthy and continue doing a great service to your community, i cannot believe that you are that ignorant of what these people do and stand for......Did you notice that you are not getting any support from either side on anything you are saying.....I wonder why..


Mick

[traveler]

Oh, I think the USA has done jsut fine setting the world standard for the last 200+ years.

If you want to see where the US is heading....go look at Greece or even California.

~Joe

[DaytonGuy]

OK.... I totally agree with BobbyR.  This is a man who knows what he it talking about!!!!  Keep talking sir.   

[andy750]

Oh, I think the USA has done jsut fine setting the world standard for the last 200+ years.

I would shorten that to last 50 yrs. Before that it was UK/European powers which had been dominant for the previous 2000+ yrs  in some form or other.

So maybe in the next 1950 yrs the USA will have universal healthcare as well   

[Rocking-M]

standing at the cabin door with squirrel gun ready to defend your rights as a freeman was OK a 100-150 years ago, but doesn't work now, you'd have to loose several billion people to make it work,
Bill the demon.

personally, if it was just me giving the orders, this would be the solution. I think I'd start with all the elitist however.

oh yea Traveller, if you ever think you can hang with my work schedule your welcome to come out and give it a try.
Oh yea, everything I have is paid for, except the farm and it's half paid for now. I wouldn't have done it with
a 12k a year health care payment. Had to come back and add, and a 12k a year health care payment for 2 healthy people
is fing ridiculous. The States are 27th in the world in health care. Wonder why?

[mark]

The guy that works at the car wash?
Neighborhood handyman?
Dish washer?
Wood chopper?
Independent logger?
Fire wood guy?
Barber, hairdresser?
small engine repair guy?
small independent contractor?
self employed skilled shipwright?
waiters/waitresses?
Cab driver?
Lawn guy?
Part time single Mother working at a very small business?
Artist?  "I'm sure that one will bring at least one comment"
The lower income people that society can't function without?
All of these people are healthy non lazy, and make the world go round. I'm very curious?

peasants.

simple peasants.

like butane lighters, toaster ovens, and that stick in the end of a corn dog - useful but disposable when they no longer function.

we have too many of them anyway. some should simply drop dead.

for that matter, some shouldn't be born in the first place.

forget all of the recent twaddle about Medicaid not funding abortion. Medicaid should cover a free scrape job and while we're at it, give the slut a tax credit for having her tubes tied and getting a job.

I'd much rather pay the doc for a quick procedure and be done with it, rather than pay an unwilling mom to raise an unwanted kid, put it through school, then jail it when it drops out.

[Retro Rocket]

     Some employers simply can't handle the high employee costs, and outsource the labor to countries like China, and Mexico where wages are negligible, and labor laws are pretty much non-existent. This leaves thousands of Americans without jobs.

I am glad you said some as most out sourced business is done purely for profit....nothing else. It won,t be too long before these "out source" countries become smarter and richer then there will be no cheap place to get anything made and it will all start over again. Get rid of huge conglomerates and cheap outsourcing and you will have a lot more home production leading to more jobs and more realistic out comes for the population. You are {and we} are being screwed by big business all in the name of profit, when we get back to doing things for our people and not for outrageous profits the whole world will be a better place.
Mark, that is a stupid post mate and that attitude is half the problem.

Mick