Author Topic: CB350F - Cafe in the Living Room  (Read 15732 times)

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Offline wingman

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CB350F - Cafe in the Living Room
« on: March 21, 2010, 07:51:51 PM »
There don't seem to be a ton of build threads for 350fs here, but I feel like I got enough to start a build thread.

The project started out innocently enough.  A 6k mile bike that sat inside a climate controlled midwestern garage.  It needed the basics - a stuck caliper, a leaky MC eating the right side hand control, a new rear tire.  The original owner who I got it from decided that it was going to be a chopper.  The king and queen seat were a good start, the sissy bar added to it, but the open exhaust with VW tips welded to them was the finishing touch.  I got it running, albeit badly as the carbs needed a rebuild, it wouldn't idle and it sounded like no 350 should ever sound, not with that exhaust.  


I knew I wanted to make it a cafe bike from the minute I saw it.  I ordered up a set of carb rebuild kits and got to work.  Ordered a cafe seat off of ebay, some drag bars, and a couple of cans of truck bed liner.  This version of the bike was to the "rat cafe" version.

After a summer of working on it - with a lot of help from members here (especially Owned, who if you ever meet is one of the coolest guys ever) I ended up with the bike looking like this.  I sourced the exhaust from another member of the forums.  I put about 800 miles on it, but the old tires, smokey exhaust and leaky head gasket let me know that she was going to need a rebuild.  The good news was that all of the dirt and grease on the bike let me know that I would be working with OEM stuff here, that anything I would mess up (and oh would I), would be on me and no one else.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 08:38:34 AM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline fasturd

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Re: CB350F - F is for....
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 08:33:09 PM »
Dude nice project. Great vintage grime on that rear wheel too!

Good luck on the rebuild.
13 in the garage and counting...

Link to my link...   http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=58422.0

Offline Hoosier Daddy

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Re: CB350F - F is for....
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 09:21:47 AM »
Gonna keep an eye on this one, seems I am a year behind you. Plan on doing a mild cafe (clubmans, seat, no fenders) on mine to ride this summer and then do the major strip down / rebuild over next winter.
  So tell me about the VW tips, that is what I was going to try... ::)
These Empi pieces that expand to 2" are not priced too bad.

'81 GL1100 "Bomber" cafe build - Yea, it's a GoldWing.... Wha?!
'74 CB350f "Lil Sister" - Waiting her turn to dance.

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F - F is for....
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 08:39:16 PM »
I have no idea what the VW tips were on there.  The stickers were pretty worn.  I sold mine on ebay a while ago to a guy who wanted the header pipes to build his own exhaust.  The tips that were on there didn't have a flair.  Not sure if you are familiar with VW Beetles but I am thinking of the 1967 stock beetle exhaust with the slip on pipes.  Those were pretty damn close to what was on there.  You could probably score a set on ebay for next to nothing (at least some repos).

Ok, time for a fast forward as this is starting to drag.  I tore the bike down in November after the replacement master cylinder gave up the ghost and piddled it's contents all over the floor and hand control.  The bike was torn down, bagged, and the motor sat for a couple of months until I collected all the parts for an engine rebuild.  During the time, I started to plan the changes to the frame.  

This is where I learned my first lesson.  Friends who work for beer might not always give you the best results.  I had a friend who claimed he could mod my frame and what I got back from him was the most unsafe piece of metal I have ever seen.  My friend used an arc welder and probably drank all the beer I paid him before he got started.  The frame was a wreck.  On the left side where the seat rails begin to connect to the back bone, the metal was burned through.  He tried to use nails, etc. to get patch the weak spot.



Once I got the frame back, I was tempted to start over and find a new frame with a fresh title.  Fortunately, Owned introduced me to a local guy, Cliff Meyer of Meyer Metal Works http://meyerbuiltmetalworks.blogspot.com/ who was able to not only rebuild the frame from the backbone to the rear shock supports, but round out the tail as well.  As Cliff put it, it was the worst welding he had ever seen.  I don't blame him.  Cliff added supports to make sure that the frame stayed square and then welded in new seat rails.



Cliff has done some other work for Owned and charged what I thought was a very reasonable price for what he did.  He added some supports to the seat frame rails which I think give the bike a really interesting look.  We had discussed frame guessests but decided against as the rounded tubing opened up more for the frame.


During this time, I had a friend roll a seat hump for me.  Cliff was able to work it into the rear of the frame and create a type of inner fender for the bike.  This is going to be a rider and so while I didn't want the inner black plastic fender blocking up the frame, the aluminum rear inner fender Cliff came up with worked perfectly and gave me a place to mount my Hondaman Ignition, Oregon Regulator/Rectifier (a super cheap ebay find) and the starter solenoid.  Cliff also designed and built a small battery box for mounting under the seat.  The idea again is that it wouldn't be too obtrusive in the hallowed "triangle".




Lesson of the story here:  Friends+Arc Welders+ Beer = professional grade work by Cliff - He is a seriously cool guy and has some of the most amazing fabrication skills I have ever seen.  Check out his website for other awesome work he has done.  

« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 11:12:02 AM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F - F is for....
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 08:22:35 AM »
After getting an awesome deal on some 33mm clipons, I decided that I was going to ditch the factory triple tree with it's integrated handlebar mounts.  I briefly considered clubmans, but those have been done before and I wanted something a little different.  Plus I am super short.  Like 5'5" on a good day, so I was pretty sure I could pull off clipons and rearsets mounted to the passenger foot rest locations.  I would just lay myself across the top of the bike and curl up like a little ball.  I thought about buying a new triple tree from TRR400, but the price was way out of my league.  I decided to go with the front end off of a cb360 and leave off the handlebar mounts (more on that later).  After some cunning ebaying (thank you jbidwatcher), I managed to find this complete front end, with forks.  At the time, I didn't think I needed forks, but the cost was so cheap, it was like buying the triples and getting the forks for free.


Imagine my surprise when the tree showed up sporting a tapered lower bearing.  Clearly, this was off of a bike that somebody had put some time into before.  I pulled the trees apart and as I expected, they fit the neck tube perfectly.  Rake remained the same and I now had a set of triple trees with a smooth top tree.  I started looking over the forks and noticed the the fork master Frank had rebuilt them at some point.  My forks off the 350f were rusted too bad (water got in the ears and sat in the seals) to be used, so now I have a set of Forks by Frank that I am going to rebuild and use with the 360 triples.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 11:15:53 AM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 08:24:23 AM »
After the getting the frame finished up, I had it powdercoated a bright red - hard to go wrong with the color and matches the polished seat and battery box quite well.  Here is a mock up on my kitchen table.  I also had the tank powdercoated silver.  I thought about painting it, but the powdercoater I used was so cheap and did such a great job, I decided to have them do it.  $60 later, I have a perfect tank ready to be mounted.



At this point, I decided to have the wheels and hubs powder coated black.  They are now in the process of being built by TAS Motorsports, just up the road from me.


« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 08:26:21 AM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 08:29:15 AM »
The seat, battery box, and inner fender were polished and is currently waiting for upholstery tomorrow - I hope to get it off to the shop tomorrow.  I want some red stitching to go with the seat as it will be a great accent for the seat.

1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 08:47:50 AM »
Here is the bike as it currently sits, strapped to my build table in my living room.



I rebuilt the triples with the all balls tapered bearings kit.  The only suggestion I have for that is that an oven, a freezer and a solid piece of PVC pipe are the most necessary tools for installation.

The rear swingarm was installed with bronze bushings and swings quite freely.  I removed the factory Honda grease fitting and tapped the hole for a 6mm thread and added a normal zerk grease fitting so I can grease it quite easily now.


Here is the swingarm bolt with the honda fitting:
 

Removed the Honda Fitting:

It was easy at that point to tap and run a regular zerk fitting into new 6mm hole.



As previously mentioned, I wanted a clean top triple tree and decided to use one from a cb360.  I am going to mount LED lights for neutral and oil pressure in the holes where the handlebars would normally go.   I wanted to go the clip on route.  Being vertically challenged, between that and the rear sets in the factory passenger location, I am still rolled up on the bike, but I wouldn't say it is super uncomfortable.  

The CB360 forks were from Frank, rebuilt with cartridges and 15w fork oil.  The lower forks were polished and the forks were cleaned up with some polish.  The forks are smooth but make whooshing noises when compressed - not that I am going to hear them when I am riding.  They do rebound rather smoothly and I think they should provide a nice ride.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 09:56:52 AM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 08:50:59 AM »
And since I am building this in my living room that is entirely lined with glass, I thought it would be only fitting to take a night shot from the road of the bike.

1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2010, 09:03:34 AM »
Your seat is just gorgeous. 
(The one on the bike, that is.)


Subscribed.


I love that you're putting it together in your living room.  My neighbor had his Harley in his living room a couple years ago and, I must say, it was really nice to see through the window.
1974 CB 750
1972 CB 750 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,57974.0.html
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Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 09:19:46 AM »
My favorite thing to do it climb on it when I get home from work and "ride" it through the living room while all the neighbors come home from work.  I am already the weirdest guy on the block.  I don't want to disappoint.

I decided that my tach needed some refreshing.  I am going with a tach only setup - don't ask how I will every pass an BMV inspection, I guess I will deal with that when the time comes.  I started by taking the tach apart with a paint can opener, compliments of CBGBs great post in tips and tricks.  My silver trim ring got a little more mangled that I would have cared for, but since those rings are nearly impossible to source, I guess I will leave it until I come up with something better.  Once I got the tach apart, I took aircraft stripper and got rid of the factory paint.  I next washed and dried it and then cleaned it with acetone.  After that, I sprayed with satin gloss engine enamel (powdercoat in a can!) after a good coat of primer.  Bake at 225 for two hours and my tach is cured.


As for the lenses, it was a bit nasty, having seen it's fair share of scratches.  I used just a dab of toothpaste smeared on with my finger and a microfiber cloth to clean up the plastic.  It really removed the scratches and cleaned on the 30+ year old contaminants.  It sparkles like new now.  It also smells minty fresh.


1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 10:00:35 AM »
Since I keep jumping around in the chronology of this build (my history professor would be so disappointed), now might be a good time to cover the engine build.  I originally pulled the engine for a rebuild after I noticed the head gasket weeping getting worse and worse.  I decided that a tear down was in order to ensure that everything would fine.  When I started, I only planned on doing the top end and calling it quits.  The transmission shifted well and I didn't see any reason to pull everything apart.  As I got it onto the engine stand, I began to notice a couple of leaky seals on the bottom end.  Not the pretteist engine, but hey, it had an even level of grim everywhere which indicated that no one had messed with it since new.




These plugs should have been my first indication that I was in for a carbon rich surprise when I got the head off.



The rockers showed what I thought was a lot of wear for only having about 7k miles on them.  I ran them by my friendly machine shop who told me not to worry.  I have OCD and decided that I didn't want missing chrome from my rockers.  I sourced a set of a rockers from a 400f with 29k miles that looked considerably better than my rockers.  I have also spoken to other who said that for whatever reason, the 400f rockers wear much more slowly than the 350f rockers.  Maybe it has something to do with the chrome plating.  Whatever the reason, the rest of the rocker box looked great.

On to the camshaft and chain.  Both looked good. 


When it came time to find the pistons in the engine, I could barley locate them.  There must have been a good 1/16 of a inch of carbon on them.  I couldn't make out any markings on them.  This bike had run really rich - probably a result of the open pipes and the lack of rejetting with pods.



The cylinder came off without much of a fight.  Just a solid tug up and off it came.


Again, as you can tell, the pistons were coated in enough carbon think that there was a fire on top of them at some point.


I guess it would be one thing if the carbon was even, but as carbon goes, it is never even or smooth.  Instead I end up with this after I get the wrist pins out.


My oil pan had been cross threaded at some point.  A quick trip to Ebay and I got a new one with some good threads on it.  Far easier to get a used one for $4 than it would be to try to fix it.


Up Next.....Splitting the cases - Like I said, so much for just rebuilding the top end.  Taking things apart is far to easy....putting them back together - that is where the headache starts.
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline UK Pete

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 10:20:30 AM »
Loving your work Wingman, WOW that first post with the king & queen seat , man thats ugly, but then turned in to a beutifull cafe, good luck with the engine, oh year having it sitting on the kitchen table is so cool
pete

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2010, 11:56:34 AM »
Splitting the cases is a pretty easy affair - remove all the bolts tap gently with a rubber mallet and they come part pretty easy.  I pulled the crank out and settled back for a beer.  While it took me about two nights to tear the thing apart, it would take me about 3 weeks to get it back together.



After the tear down, all cases and engine parts were taken to IDS blasting.  The parts were degreased and blasted with a plastic media to clean up all of the gasket surfaces.  Once the parts came back, I spent quite a few hours cleaning out all of the oil passages with with brushes and simple green, trying to get all of the media out of the engine.  I was very impressed with the blasting work and IDS did a great job of making sure that all the parts would be ready for a good coat of paint once cleaned.

1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2010, 12:19:10 PM »
Once the engine parts came back from blasting, I decided to rebuild the head.  Friends had reported smoke coming out of my pipes at high RPM, meaning either head gasket or valve guides.  Have the motor in this state, I figured that doing the valve guides would be the easiest.  The plastic media was a real pain to get out of the valve guides while they were assembled, so it was easier to take them apart and clean everything really well.



After pulling all the valves and scrubbing the head, I ended up with this


The head was painstakingly assembled from new parts, the valves lapped and carefully reinserted into the head.  It is interesting to note that both the intake and exhaust valves had provisions for oil seal valves.  Depending on the serial number, not all of these heads do.  Owned is rebuilding a CB400f that does not have provisions for exhaust side oil seal valves.


During this time, I dropped the cylinder head off at my friendly machine shop who honed the cylinders, installed the piston rings and measured the end gap to make sure that the pistons and the cylinders would get along together as well as possible.  They did excellent work and the cylinders have some really nice cross hatching.

Up next came the fun part - paint.  After much searching for VHT paint, I decided to go with Duplicolor.  You can buy the stuff nearly anywhere and VHT and Duplicolor are made by the same companies which makes me think that they probably use a similar paint formula.

My buddy (a very different buddy who doesn't own a welder) has a really steady hand and is an expert at masking.  For the price of a couple of beers, he masked my entire engine.  Took a lot of tape but I think the old adage for paint is that it is all in the prep.





I followed the instructions on the can for the primer and the paint - two light coats, followed by a heavier coat.  Same with the silver (color) coat.  Two light coats followed by a slightly heavier paint to avoid runs.  Once the paint set, I fired up the old oven and went to town.  I believe I bake the parts at 225 for about 2.5 hours each.  Let the parts cool in the oven overnight, burn some incense so the landlord doesn't think you are cooking meth and take some Tylenol cause you will have a headache (at least I did - I have a sensitive nose).

 



I was pretty happy with the results.  I have read about some people clear coating over the tops of their engines.  I decided not only because I didn't think it was necessary.  The paint has proven pretty tough despite some heavy handling and assembly.










« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 05:17:32 PM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2010, 12:31:47 PM »
After paint came time for the rebuild.  Owned and I were working at pretty much the same pace and living within about 20 minutes of each other, it make it easy to run over to his place, build and mate his lower cases and then do the same to mine in the same afternoon.

Here is the upper case ready to be mated with the lower case.  We used some hondabond HT and spread a thin layer around all the edges of the cases.  I read somewhere on the internet (the source of all great information) that you mate the cases, finger tighten the cases and leave to dry overnight before you torque to spec.  For good measure, I used blue thread lock while rebuilding the engine to keep the bolts from getting any ideas of coming loss.  Where available, I replaced every bolt with a stainless allen head screws.  Why?  Cause the place I get them from sells them cheap and in bulk.  And since Honda used about 5 different lengths of 6mm bolts, I didn't have a problem buying the bolts in packs of 50 (anyone want to buy some extra bolts :)?)

[img width= height=]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_e2VkMmNNCug/S4FLLLJReoI/AAAAAAAACTw/pPptbwPrqNk/s800/DSC_0005.JPG[/img]


I did remove the baffle in the oil pan and replace them will allen screws.  Why?  I have no idea.  I had to drill the screws out and decided that allen heads, since the cost the same as the screws, would make the baffle more "race".  So ha!

Here is the engine back in the stand, waiting for the rest of the parts to be bolted back on - in this case, the oil pan.  All parts were scrubbed with brake/carb cleaner before they were reinstalled in the engine.  I made sure that my garage was as clean as possible before I build the engine.  I don't need some small piece of floating crap to take out all my hard work.  Not like I have ton of money in the engine, but at this point I don't have a lot time in the engine.



1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline mothgils

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2010, 01:26:49 PM »
Looks good man!  Can't wait to see it on the road.

Where are you at in Indy?  I am down on the southside.

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2010, 01:58:26 PM »
Say WINGMAN, your build looks super clean and very nice!

A while back you described that you had powdercoated the tank.  Did the powdercoating do the inside as well?  Or did you prep it any other way?

Offline IainC

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2010, 02:02:16 PM »
Looks great, I'll be cleaning and repainting my engine shortly and I hope it turns out as well as your's did. Makes me really miss my 350f.... this forum will have me convinced to buy a new one as soon at I'm done with my 650... I know it.

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2010, 04:09:18 PM »
Looks good man!  Can't wait to see it on the road.

Where are you at in Indy?  I am down on the southside.
I live over by the IMA - at least for the time being.  I am moving to New Mexico within a month or so which is why all energies are being focused on getting this thing
 built.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 04:14:33 PM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2010, 04:11:43 PM »
Say WINGMAN, your build looks super clean and very nice!

A while back you described that you had powdercoated the tank.  Did the powdercoating do the inside as well?  Or did you prep it any other way?

I had stripped the tank of the factory paint or what was left of it.  The powdercoaters burned the old paint off (put it in an oven at around 800 degrees) sandblasted it, and then did a two stage powdercoat on it - one for color, one for clear.

Turned out great for the price.  Looks almost like paint and should be much more durable.
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2010, 04:25:54 PM »
Looks great!  Much better this time around, than the first time, IMHO.

~Joe

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2010, 05:19:48 PM »
Thanks - this time around I am working on a full rebuild.  I am currently untangling the rat's nest know as the wiring harness......
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2010, 07:38:55 PM »
Say WINGMAN, your build looks super clean and very nice!

A while back you described that you had powdercoated the tank.  Did the powdercoating do the inside as well?  Or did you prep it any other way?

I had stripped the tank of the factory paint or what was left of it.  The powdercoaters burned the old paint off (put it in an oven at around 800 degrees) sandblasted it, and then did a two stage powdercoat on it - one for color, one for clear.

Turned out great for the price.  Looks almost like paint and should be much more durable.

I was interested to know about the inside of the tank.  Did that part get powdercoated as well?

Offline wingman

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Re: CB350F Living Room Build
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2010, 08:13:00 PM »
The inside of the tank was not powdercoated.   I used some acid to clean the inside of the tank to make sure that it was really clean before it was powdered.  There is still a little dust left over from the sandblasting of the tank but nothing that can't be washed out with acetone  
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 05:57:21 AM by wingman »
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0