Author Topic: Transistorized Ignitions, aka Hondaman Ignition in Dual, Single, and now Triple!  (Read 69062 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Points would last forever...but probably a good idea to keep the cam lobe in there greased.

~Joe


And a drop of oil in the pivots now and then (once a year), if you have the cheaper points. Some of the TEC and Hitachi points have bronze bushings in there, which don't need it.  ;)
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Hi Mark
Does the box have to be in a place with airflow for cooling?  I was thinking about putting one in the rear cowl storage box on my 76F.  I may have to extend the wires?  May want one for an dual points XS650 and from your description this should be no problem too.  You mention the "basic" version.  Is there a deluxe one that does a little extra?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 12:48:23 am by srust58 »

Offline HondaMan

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Hi Mark
Does the box have to be in a place with airflow for cooling?  I was thinking about putting one in the rear cowl storage box on my 76F.  I may have to extend the wires?  May want one for an dual points XS650 and from your description this should be no problem too.  You mention the "basic" version.  Is there a deluxe one that does a little extra?

There are several out there where the "F" owner(s) asked me to extend the wires so they could mount it back there. It works out well, the box does not need special cooling. It does cost about $5 more for the extra wire (almost twice as much as a standard unit!) and the (non-'standard') assembly time it takes me to make those.

There's also customized, colored, anodized cases available (red, green, blue, black, silver, gold), and a Security Switch that disables the coils, even if the bike was hotwired (unless the thief also knows where the switch is and what it does). It's not a terribly "obvious" switch, which helps a little. Inside the "F" tailtrunk, it becomes fairly effective though, as the thief can't see the switch unless he gets in there. On the other bikes, if he pokes around long enough it can be found (IMO). On the K2-K8 bikes, removing the tools from the tooltray and mounting the box there can make the switch hard to reach when the seat is locked.

The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.

I haven't sold one of the customs in probably two years, mostly for their price. They can cost $100 or more with everything added, but the Forum gets $2 donation for these fancy units, as there ends up being pictures, talk, etc., from them.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 06:53:33 am by HondaMan »
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline wannabridin

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ok mark, so just how much would one cost w/ security switch and the resistors for some hotter coils?  i'll mount it myself and it will probably be under the seat cowl so no need for schmancy colors!  and i can splice in my own wires for added length right?  it'll be a mildly hopped up stock displacement motor with k&n filter and pumper carbs on a '76K.  thanks!!
1976 CB750K, currently under construction:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64468.0

-And if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do...

Offline HondaMan

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ok mark, so just how much would one cost w/ security switch and the resistors for some hotter coils?  i'll mount it myself and it will probably be under the seat cowl so no need for schmancy colors!  and i can splice in my own wires for added length right?  it'll be a mildly hopped up stock displacement motor with k&n filter and pumper carbs on a '76K.  thanks!!

Splicing in wires can be testy: soldered wires on the coil side must be done perfectly or the high surge currents will slowly eat the solder. So, I'd rather that you gave me an estimate of the length (or the location on the bike where you will mount the box) and let me make longer wires, just for reliability. Worst case: the CB750F mounted-in-the-tail versions require $5 extra wire length.

Basic units are $68. The Security Switch is $20 extra (and takes several days to assemble!). Shipping in the U.S. is $8 or $7, depending on where you live.

The Resistor Pack is $15 now (the resistors went 'way up in April.  :( ).

Drop me an e-mail: mgparis@concentric.net .
 :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 09:48:49 pm by HondaMan »
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline spitcrazy

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Mark, Question,

I finally (thank you international post) received the ignition today! Plugged her in and wow! I have been battling a rich condition from 4500 to 7000, sputtering etc. I removed the air filter and she definitely went lean. So with your ignition, as soon as the plugs cleaned a bit, the range mostly smoothed over, just a little rich, I think, almost there. What do you think I should try: drop the needle a notch or drop the mains from 100 to 98's?

BTW; started her cold a few mins ago, choke on and she fired IMMEDIATELY! Turned choke off and she just kept ticking... wow awesome. Nice kit, nice warranty statement! Great schematic, hardest part was figuring where to put the box.
1973 CB500 FOUR - German Model.... Funky Tailight!

Offline GammaFlat

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Drop me an e-mail: mgpariis@concentric.net .
 :)

I thiink hee meeant mgparis@concentric.net
K6
K7 
Suzuki GN400 - Ignition fixed!
03 KLR650 - Doesn't do anything very well but.. well.. does everything.

Offline HondaMan

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Drop me an e-mail: mgpariis@concentric.net .
 :)

I thiink hee meeant mgparis@concentric.net

Thanks, GF!
You can tell it's been a loong week already.  :D
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Mark, Question,

I finally (thank you international post) received the ignition today! Plugged her in and wow! I have been battling a rich condition from 4500 to 7000, sputtering etc. I removed the air filter and she definitely went lean. So with your ignition, as soon as the plugs cleaned a bit, the range mostly smoothed over, just a little rich, I think, almost there. What do you think I should try: drop the needle a notch or drop the mains from 100 to 98's?

BTW; started her cold a few mins ago, choke on and she fired IMMEDIATELY! Turned choke off and she just kept ticking... wow awesome. Nice kit, nice warranty statement! Great schematic, hardest part was figuring where to put the box.

Cool!  8)

Drop the mains first, then the needles if it's not enough. Needles are about 1.5% per notch.
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline wannabridin

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    • 1976 CB750K, under construction:
Mark,

do you think the prices will go up for us on the forums if you go commercial with these boxes?
1976 CB750K, currently under construction:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64468.0

-And if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do...

Offline HondaMan

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Mark,

do you think the prices will go up for us on the forums if you go commercial with these boxes?

Nope, not here. That's just for the "general public" and all the hassles that will likely come from it. SOHC4 is more like a concentrated "family group" of riders who like to talk about how to fix things rather than blame someone else for something they did wrong themselves.  ;)

I used to make these units back in the 1970s, but the finger-pointing and yelling (by self-appointed, know-it-all home wrenches and even shop mechanics!) caused me to quit them. They work perfectly, but must be installed as directed: making up your own methods just don't work. Here in these forums, people write and ask if something is amiss, and it's easy to straighten out the installations. I fully expect the general public won't be that amiable.   ::)
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline rangelov

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Mark,

I have a CB750K4 with an 832 kit, pod filters, MAC header.  I'm using Andrews coils (for Honda SOHC, now Andrews is mainly Harley stuff).  I I have been using these coils w/o any special wiring.  I haven't noticed abnormal points wear. 

Do I need a standard HMIM or....?

Thanks, Dimitar


The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=76835
-----------------------------------------------
CB750K4, Boss maroon metallic, 836cc, RC Engrg 4 into 1, Forks by Frank, air assisted front forks,  JC Whitney 16" rear.

Offline HondaMan

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Mark,

I have a CB750K4 with an 832 kit, pod filters, MAC header.  I'm using Andrews coils (for Honda SOHC, now Andrews is mainly Harley stuff).  I I have been using these coils w/o any special wiring.  I haven't noticed abnormal points wear. 

Do I need a standard HMIM or....?

Thanks, Dimitar


The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.


I'm not familiar with those coils, Dimitar. Do you know the resistance of the primary windings? That will determine whether the Resistor Pack is needed, or not.
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline GammaFlat

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I have some blue Andrew coils on my K8.  hmmmm, I guess I'll have to measure them...maybe I'll need resistors... 
K6
K7 
Suzuki GN400 - Ignition fixed!
03 KLR650 - Doesn't do anything very well but.. well.. does everything.

Offline rangelov

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I'm not familiar with those coils, Dimitar. Do you know the resistance of the primary windings? That will determine whether the Resistor Pack is needed, or not.
Mark,

I have the red (orangey red) Andrews coils.  The primary resistance measured about 3.5 Ohms ( 3.4-3.8 ).

Thanks, Dimitar
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 10:55:07 am by rangelov »
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=76835
-----------------------------------------------
CB750K4, Boss maroon metallic, 836cc, RC Engrg 4 into 1, Forks by Frank, air assisted front forks,  JC Whitney 16" rear.

Offline HondaMan

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The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.

Mark,

I have a CB750K4 with an 832 kit, pod filters, MAC header.  I'm using Andrews coils (for Honda SOHC, now Andrews is mainly Harley stuff).  I I have been using these coils w/o any special wiring.  I haven't noticed abnormal points wear. 

Do I need a standard HMIM or....?

Thanks, Dimitar

I'm not familiar with those coils, Dimitar. Do you know the resistance of the primary windings? That will determine whether the Resistor Pack is needed, or not.
Mark,

I have the red (orangey red) coils.  The primary resistance measured about 3.5 Ohms (3.4-3.8).

I have Andrews literature somewhere, but all I found was Kaw Z-1 cam install sheet w/ cam specs and transmission gear literature.
Thanks, Dimitar

3.5 ohms will be OK. Personally, I'd still use a 1 ohm Resistor Pack, but the wires will support 3.4 ohms (3.5 amps max) minimum.
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline vern401

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Wow what a thread. The unit sounds great and I have not seen any problems on the forum about it. Now that our bikes are getting old do you have any sugestions where to get new coils that would work turn key with this unit?
1972 SL350
1978 750F SS
1979 XC500 Custom
1991 ZX600C4 Ninja
1982 KZ550C-3

Offline john_matrix

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Just paypal'd Mark $75 with a little note-- hope that's all I have to do!

Hoping this will perk up my stock '77 CB750.
1977 CB 750K

Offline HondaMan

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Wow what a thread. The unit sounds great and I have not seen any problems on the forum about it. Now that our bikes are getting old do you have any sugestions where to get new coils that would work turn key with this unit?

Honda still sells replacement coils. You can also use the ones from the CB500/550 on the CB750 (not the other way around: the wires are too short that way.  :-\ ).
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline vern401

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1972 SL350
1978 750F SS
1979 XC500 Custom
1991 ZX600C4 Ninja
1982 KZ550C-3

Offline MattFreeman

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Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 03:45:22 pm by MattFreeman »

Offline HondaMan

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Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?

While it depends a little on the engine you have as to the benefit you'll derive at higher RPM...the stock Honda coils are good to about 12,500 RPM with full spark, drooping somewhere above that with either fresh points or this Box. The Dyna 3-ohm coils hold their higher-voltage, shorter-duration spark level to about 10,500 RPM and then they start to droop. They have more output voltage, though, so at about 13000 RPM both sets of coils have about the same output (although the Honda ones are longer duration).

In general, the CB750K0-K6 benefits more from Honda coils because of the swirl-charge engine design. The later 750s, and the 500/550, can benefit from the Dyna coils (plus a Resistor Pack) if the plug gaps are opened up to 0.040" or more, as they are a semi-hemi design.

The Box goes well past 16k RPM.
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline MattFreeman

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Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?

While it depends a little on the engine you have as to the benefit you'll derive at higher RPM...the stock Honda coils are good to about 12,500 RPM with full spark, drooping somewhere above that with either fresh points or this Box. The Dyna 3-ohm coils hold their higher-voltage, shorter-duration spark level to about 10,500 RPM and then they start to droop. They have more output voltage, though, so at about 13000 RPM both sets of coils have about the same output (although the Honda ones are longer duration).

In general, the CB750K0-K6 benefits more from Honda coils because of the swirl-charge engine design. The later 750s, and the 500/550, can benefit from the Dyna coils (plus a Resistor Pack) if the plug gaps are opened up to 0.040" or more, as they are a semi-hemi design.

The Box goes well past 16k RPM.

Hondaman

Only after reading your response to my query a forth time, much after the fact, have I realized that my vague attempt to reference Spinal Tap the movie for humerus affect was possibly misconstrued an attempt to sound like I know what I'm talking about (I do not).

What I meant was, will the HMI give me 11 more horse power? See, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

However, I believe your previous response actually does answer my question. What I gather is that the largest performance gains from the HMI are above 12000 rpm and that if I'm not planning to run a high-strung motor above that that I'm best off with the stock coils. No?

Have a Great Day
MF

Offline HondaMan

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Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?

While it depends a little on the engine you have as to the benefit you'll derive at higher RPM...the stock Honda coils are good to about 12,500 RPM with full spark, drooping somewhere above that with either fresh points or this Box. The Dyna 3-ohm coils hold their higher-voltage, shorter-duration spark level to about 10,500 RPM and then they start to droop. They have more output voltage, though, so at about 13000 RPM both sets of coils have about the same output (although the Honda ones are longer duration).

In general, the CB750K0-K6 benefits more from Honda coils because of the swirl-charge engine design. The later 750s, and the 500/550, can benefit from the Dyna coils (plus a Resistor Pack) if the plug gaps are opened up to 0.040" or more, as they are a semi-hemi design.

The Box goes well past 16k RPM.

Hondaman

Only after reading your response to my query a forth time, much after the fact, have I realized that my vague attempt to reference Spinal Tap the movie for humerus affect was possibly misconstrued an attempt to sound like I know what I'm talking about (I do not).

What I meant was, will the HMI give me 11 more horse power? See, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

However, I believe your previous response actually does answer my question. What I gather is that the largest performance gains from the HMI are above 12000 rpm and that if I'm not planning to run a high-strung motor above that that I'm best off with the stock coils. No?

Have a Great Day
MF

True: for a daily rider/commuter/tourer bike, the stock coils do a great job. I still prefer them on my bike, to the Dyna 3-ohm coils, mostly for their improved midrange performance. That's pretty much what Honda seemed to have in mind as well.  ;)

This box just wakes them up a little more on the bottom end (for less cold-bloodedness) and the upper end (for some more RPM).
The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline MattFreeman

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Thank you sir.

 

;
Honda