Topic: Transistorized Ignitions, aka Hondaman Ignition in Dual, Single, and now Triple!

[HondaMan]

Points would last forever...but probably a good idea to keep the cam lobe in there greased.

~Joe

And a drop of oil in the pivots now and then (once a year), if you have the cheaper points. Some of the TEC and Hitachi points have bronze bushings in there, which don't need it. 

[BeSeeingYou]

Hi Mark
Does the box have to be in a place with airflow for cooling?  I was thinking about putting one in the rear cowl storage box on my 76F.  I may have to extend the wires?  May want one for an dual points XS650 and from your description this should be no problem too.  You mention the "basic" version.  Is there a deluxe one that does a little extra?

[HondaMan]

Hi Mark
Does the box have to be in a place with airflow for cooling?  I was thinking about putting one in the rear cowl storage box on my 76F.  I may have to extend the wires?  May want one for an dual points XS650 and from your description this should be no problem too.  You mention the "basic" version.  Is there a deluxe one that does a little extra?

There are several out there where the "F" owner(s) asked me to extend the wires so they could mount it back there. It works out well, the box does not need special cooling. It does cost about $5 more for the extra wire (almost twice as much as a standard unit!) and the (non-'standard') assembly time it takes me to make those.

There's also customized, colored, anodized cases available (red, green, blue, black, silver, gold), and a Security Switch that disables the coils, even if the bike was hotwired (unless the thief also knows where the switch is and what it does). It's not a terribly "obvious" switch, which helps a little. Inside the "F" tailtrunk, it becomes fairly effective though, as the thief can't see the switch unless he gets in there. On the other bikes, if he pokes around long enough it can be found (IMO). On the K2-K8 bikes, removing the tools from the tooltray and mounting the box there can make the switch hard to reach when the seat is locked.

The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.

I haven't sold one of the customs in probably two years, mostly for their price. They can cost $100 or more with everything added, but the Forum gets $2 donation for these fancy units, as there ends up being pictures, talk, etc., from them.

[wannabridin]

ok mark, so just how much would one cost w/ security switch and the resistors for some hotter coils?  i'll mount it myself and it will probably be under the seat cowl so no need for schmancy colors!  and i can splice in my own wires for added length right?  it'll be a mildly hopped up stock displacement motor with k&n filter and pumper carbs on a '76K.  thanks!!

[HondaMan]

ok mark, so just how much would one cost w/ security switch and the resistors for some hotter coils?  i'll mount it myself and it will probably be under the seat cowl so no need for schmancy colors!  and i can splice in my own wires for added length right?  it'll be a mildly hopped up stock displacement motor with k&n filter and pumper carbs on a '76K.  thanks!!

Splicing in wires can be testy: soldered wires on the coil side must be done perfectly or the high surge currents will slowly eat the solder. So, I'd rather that you gave me an estimate of the length (or the location on the bike where you will mount the box) and let me make longer wires, just for reliability. Worst case: the CB750F mounted-in-the-tail versions require $5 extra wire length.

Basic units are $68. The Security Switch is $20 extra (and takes several days to assemble!). Shipping in the U.S. is $8 or $7, depending on where you live.

The Resistor Pack is $15 now (the resistors went 'way up in April.  ).

Drop me an e-mail: mgparis@concentric.net .
 

[spitcrazy]

Mark, Question,

I finally (thank you international post) received the ignition today! Plugged her in and wow! I have been battling a rich condition from 4500 to 7000, sputtering etc. I removed the air filter and she definitely went lean. So with your ignition, as soon as the plugs cleaned a bit, the range mostly smoothed over, just a little rich, I think, almost there. What do you think I should try: drop the needle a notch or drop the mains from 100 to 98's?

BTW; started her cold a few mins ago, choke on and she fired IMMEDIATELY! Turned choke off and she just kept ticking... wow awesome. Nice kit, nice warranty statement! Great schematic, hardest part was figuring where to put the box.

[GammaFlat]

Drop me an e-mail: mgpariis@concentric.net .
 

I thiink hee meeant mgparis@concentric.net

[HondaMan]

Drop me an e-mail: mgpariis@concentric.net .
 

I thiink hee meeant mgparis@concentric.net

Thanks, GF!
You can tell it's been a loong week already. 

[HondaMan]

Mark, Question,

I finally (thank you international post) received the ignition today! Plugged her in and wow! I have been battling a rich condition from 4500 to 7000, sputtering etc. I removed the air filter and she definitely went lean. So with your ignition, as soon as the plugs cleaned a bit, the range mostly smoothed over, just a little rich, I think, almost there. What do you think I should try: drop the needle a notch or drop the mains from 100 to 98's?

BTW; started her cold a few mins ago, choke on and she fired IMMEDIATELY! Turned choke off and she just kept ticking... wow awesome. Nice kit, nice warranty statement! Great schematic, hardest part was figuring where to put the box.

Cool! 

Drop the mains first, then the needles if it's not enough. Needles are about 1.5% per notch.

[wannabridin]

Mark,

do you think the prices will go up for us on the forums if you go commercial with these boxes?

[HondaMan]

Mark,

do you think the prices will go up for us on the forums if you go commercial with these boxes?

Nope, not here. That's just for the "general public" and all the hassles that will likely come from it. SOHC4 is more like a concentrated "family group" of riders who like to talk about how to fix things rather than blame someone else for something they did wrong themselves. 

I used to make these units back in the 1970s, but the finger-pointing and yelling (by self-appointed, know-it-all home wrenches and even shop mechanics!) caused me to quit them. They work perfectly, but must be installed as directed: making up your own methods just don't work. Here in these forums, people write and ask if something is amiss, and it's easy to straighten out the installations. I fully expect the general public won't be that amiable.   

[rangelov]

Mark,

I have a CB750K4 with an 832 kit, pod filters, MAC header.  I'm using Andrews coils (for Honda SOHC, now Andrews is mainly Harley stuff).  I I have been using these coils w/o any special wiring.  I haven't noticed abnormal points wear. 

Do I need a standard HMIM or....?

Thanks, Dimitar

The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.

[HondaMan]

Mark,

I have a CB750K4 with an 832 kit, pod filters, MAC header.  I'm using Andrews coils (for Honda SOHC, now Andrews is mainly Harley stuff).  I I have been using these coils w/o any special wiring.  I haven't noticed abnormal points wear. 

Do I need a standard HMIM or....?

Thanks, Dimitar

The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.

I'm not familiar with those coils, Dimitar. Do you know the resistance of the primary windings? That will determine whether the Resistor Pack is needed, or not.

[GammaFlat]

I have some blue Andrew coils on my K8.  hmmmm, I guess I'll have to measure them...maybe I'll need resistors... 

[rangelov]

I'm not familiar with those coils, Dimitar. Do you know the resistance of the primary windings? That will determine whether the Resistor Pack is needed, or not.

Mark,

I have the red (orangey red) Andrews coils.  The primary resistance measured about 3.5 Ohms ( 3.4-3.8 ).

Thanks, Dimitar

[HondaMan]

The blue box below is typical of a full-featured $115 unit with Security Switch, custom case, and mounting ears for the inside of a beautifully restored "F". I made one like it for my own K2, also (and will be installing it when I paint it blue this summer!). The other picture is some of the boxes: larger ones for hot applications like Dyna or Accel coils w/o inline resistors, and the more common "standard" colored box, compared with the standard box.

Drop me an e-mail for the expensive details: mgparis@concentric.net.

Mark,

I have a CB750K4 with an 832 kit, pod filters, MAC header.  I'm using Andrews coils (for Honda SOHC, now Andrews is mainly Harley stuff).  I I have been using these coils w/o any special wiring.  I haven't noticed abnormal points wear. 

Do I need a standard HMIM or....?

Thanks, Dimitar

I'm not familiar with those coils, Dimitar. Do you know the resistance of the primary windings? That will determine whether the Resistor Pack is needed, or not.

Mark,

I have the red (orangey red) coils.  The primary resistance measured about 3.5 Ohms (3.4-3..

I have Andrews literature somewhere, but all I found was Kaw Z-1 cam install sheet w/ cam specs and transmission gear literature.
Thanks, Dimitar

3.5 ohms will be OK. Personally, I'd still use a 1 ohm Resistor Pack, but the wires will support 3.4 ohms (3.5 amps max) minimum.

[vern401]

Wow what a thread. The unit sounds great and I have not seen any problems on the forum about it. Now that our bikes are getting old do you have any sugestions where to get new coils that would work turn key with this unit?

[john_matrix]

Just paypal'd Mark $75 with a little note-- hope that's all I have to do!

Hoping this will perk up my stock '77 CB750.

[HondaMan]

Wow what a thread. The unit sounds great and I have not seen any problems on the forum about it. Now that our bikes are getting old do you have any sugestions where to get new coils that would work turn key with this unit?

Honda still sells replacement coils. You can also use the ones from the CB500/550 on the CB750 (not the other way around: the wires are too short that way.  ).

[vern401]

https://www.partsnmore.com/cat_index.php?model=cb750_sohc&category=electrical

 There are some coils here too..

[MattFreeman]

Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?

[HondaMan]

Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?

While it depends a little on the engine you have as to the benefit you'll derive at higher RPM...the stock Honda coils are good to about 12,500 RPM with full spark, drooping somewhere above that with either fresh points or this Box. The Dyna 3-ohm coils hold their higher-voltage, shorter-duration spark level to about 10,500 RPM and then they start to droop. They have more output voltage, though, so at about 13000 RPM both sets of coils have about the same output (although the Honda ones are longer duration).

In general, the CB750K0-K6 benefits more from Honda coils because of the swirl-charge engine design. The later 750s, and the 500/550, can benefit from the Dyna coils (plus a Resistor Pack) if the plug gaps are opened up to 0.040" or more, as they are a semi-hemi design.

The Box goes well past 16k RPM.

[MattFreeman]

Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?

While it depends a little on the engine you have as to the benefit you'll derive at higher RPM...the stock Honda coils are good to about 12,500 RPM with full spark, drooping somewhere above that with either fresh points or this Box. The Dyna 3-ohm coils hold their higher-voltage, shorter-duration spark level to about 10,500 RPM and then they start to droop. They have more output voltage, though, so at about 13000 RPM both sets of coils have about the same output (although the Honda ones are longer duration).

In general, the CB750K0-K6 benefits more from Honda coils because of the swirl-charge engine design. The later 750s, and the 500/550, can benefit from the Dyna coils (plus a Resistor Pack) if the plug gaps are opened up to 0.040" or more, as they are a semi-hemi design.

The Box goes well past 16k RPM.

Hondaman

Only after reading your response to my query a forth time, much after the fact, have I realized that my vague attempt to reference Spinal Tap the movie for humerus affect was possibly misconstrued an attempt to sound like I know what I'm talking about (I do not).

What I meant was, will the HMI give me 11 more horse power? See, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

However, I believe your previous response actually does answer my question. What I gather is that the largest performance gains from the HMI are above 12000 rpm and that if I'm not planning to run a high-strung motor above that that I'm best off with the stock coils. No?

Have a Great Day
MF

[HondaMan]

Does the use of the HMI give the same power related improvements as upgrading the coils? Or would I benefit from upgraded coils and the HMI? Relative to power.

Obviously there is the improved point longevity, but will my spark go to 11 with both?

While it depends a little on the engine you have as to the benefit you'll derive at higher RPM...the stock Honda coils are good to about 12,500 RPM with full spark, drooping somewhere above that with either fresh points or this Box. The Dyna 3-ohm coils hold their higher-voltage, shorter-duration spark level to about 10,500 RPM and then they start to droop. They have more output voltage, though, so at about 13000 RPM both sets of coils have about the same output (although the Honda ones are longer duration).

In general, the CB750K0-K6 benefits more from Honda coils because of the swirl-charge engine design. The later 750s, and the 500/550, can benefit from the Dyna coils (plus a Resistor Pack) if the plug gaps are opened up to 0.040" or more, as they are a semi-hemi design.

The Box goes well past 16k RPM.

Hondaman

Only after reading your response to my query a forth time, much after the fact, have I realized that my vague attempt to reference Spinal Tap the movie for humerus affect was possibly misconstrued an attempt to sound like I know what I'm talking about (I do not).

What I meant was, will the HMI give me 11 more horse power? See, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

However, I believe your previous response actually does answer my question. What I gather is that the largest performance gains from the HMI are above 12000 rpm and that if I'm not planning to run a high-strung motor above that that I'm best off with the stock coils. No?

Have a Great Day
MF

True: for a daily rider/commuter/tourer bike, the stock coils do a great job. I still prefer them on my bike, to the Dyna 3-ohm coils, mostly for their improved midrange performance. That's pretty much what Honda seemed to have in mind as well. 

This box just wakes them up a little more on the bottom end (for less cold-bloodedness) and the upper end (for some more RPM).

[MattFreeman]

Thank you sir.