Author Topic: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!  (Read 2327 times)

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meestabeck

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Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« on: January 18, 2006, 07:45:51 PM »
BWAHAHAHAHA!
I have decided to take the plunge and do some serious custom electrical work (at least for me).
I am wiring some orange LEDS into the rear turn signal chasis. IF the contraption works, then the regular 1156 bulb will be unimpeded by the LEDs (which will be carefully adhered to the inside of the turn signal lens) and flash in a normal fashion when my turn signals are activated. The LEDs will be wired into the running lights, and flash in a halo pattern during normal riding in order to aid the, err, noticablility of my bike during regular driving. (as my LEDs on my license plate aid braking only.) My intention with these modifications; as with all mods to my Nighthawk 650, is to make the bike more effective while paying tribute to its beauty from the factory. Be assured that everyone will be updated with pics and problems that are likely to happen when I do this in February. May the Force be With ME!


Jim Shea

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 02:23:10 AM »
Sounds interesting, let us know how you get on. If you can get a pic of the 'halo pattern' that would be good??

Offline Steve F

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 03:41:34 AM »
One huge benefit with LED's is the reduced current draw and therefore affording more available amperage for the important stuff..... like ignition system.
I like having LED's on the bike as they don't tend to vibrate to death.  I've converted to all LED's except for the headlight (obviously) and the speedo and tach.
You gotta post some pics when you're done.....post some "In progress" pics too.
Steve F

Jim Shea

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 03:46:11 AM »
Do you use the same 'flasher unit' with LEDs?

Offline Gordon

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 05:00:20 AM »
Meestabeck, are you saying the LED lights inside the rear turn signal lenses will flash constantly?  Seems like that would just serve to confuse the drivers behind you, like having the hazard lights on. 

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 06:40:44 AM »
Do you use the same 'flasher unit' with LEDs?
I went with the electronic flasher since the bi-metal type require current flow to make them operate.  LED's reduced current flow is insufficient to make the bi-metal type flashers heat up.  I had to slow down the electronic flasher that I used with a larger capacitor on the circuit board since it was flashing about 2 times per second. Now it's flashing at 1Hz.   ;D

eldar

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2006, 08:14:27 AM »
I would like to do the led conversion. Maybe someone could do a up an FAQ on how they did it and the amount they spent and where they found the LEDs.

meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2006, 09:13:22 PM »
Alright, where to begin....
The LEDs will in fact be constantly on, and therefore will not connect to the stock flashers. THis is where my bike takes an evil turn. I have LED 1156 bulbs (amber) in the rear flashers, in order for them to flash on my stock electrical/flashing system, I had to install a pair of flashing relays, one for each bulb that is an LED. This is required because the LEDs draw so little power that the system thinks that the bulb is dead, and wont flash unless it is fooled (or you buy one of the expensive aftermarket flasher units). My front 1157 bulbs are still stock incandesant, mainly because I have not bought more flasher relays for the LED 1157 that I will put in soon (they are comfy inside my 78 T-bird at the moment). I also have all LEDs in the speedo/tach/odometer. This is the easiest LED upgrade on your blike, as these bulbs do not need any relays at all, and instead of having 7 or 8 bulbs using 3.4 watts each, My LEDs draw around 300 milliwatts a peice. That is equivilant to less than one bulb. THis is not a dramatic improvement on total power savings, but it sure is nicer to have a 100,000 hour bulbe in the hard reach insturment cluster. AS for my newest LED job, I wanted to give myself some more visibility, especially at night, but without making so much ruckous that actual turn signals go unnoticed. My intention is to be noticed. I am using two clusters of hyper white LEDs, that are fused on to a circuit board about the size of a silver dollar. There are five Large LEDs on each unit, located on the outside rim of the board, facing upward (this will make sense when I get a picture loaded). When power (around 500 milliwatts minimum) is placed into the board, the five LEDs flash in a chasing pattern. But this is the best part, there is only ever one LED lit at any given time, and the chase is slow, such as the slowest chase pattern on X-mas lights. Perhaps the most comical aspect of the whole thing is where I got that LEDS. They are from a Gillete mach 3 turbo display box at a local Wal-Mart. The picture of the razor had lights flashing in a halo pattern around it, and when the product was no longer new, the employees were going to toss the whole display. With a little convincing, I got to rip out the LEDs, which were already connected to the circuit board. Haha. Oh, and Eldar, to answer your question. With a little research, you can buy individual LEDS and not spend a fortune. Or you can go the slightly more costly (and easy) route and buy LEDs that are installed on a bulb shaped unit that will fit a stock light base.  You can really spend a lot of money on custom stuff, if that floats your boat. But in order to switch out signal front and back, and brake lights is you have 2 bulbs...... I would say between $120 and $250 respectivly. I swear, when the weather clears a bit I will begin work and fload you guys with pics! Until then, good day and good riding.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2006, 12:06:38 AM by meestabeck »

meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2006, 12:12:34 AM »
Oh, and I almost forgot. Here is a link that many of you probably already know. But they have got some good lighting equipment and accessories. Their LED selection is great, ranging from singles to flexible lines. Prices are fair as well.
http://www.customdynamics.com/motorcycle_lights.htm

Jim Shea

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2006, 02:01:45 AM »
I wonder if this type of light would be legal in the UK, anyone know?

Offline Steve F

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2006, 04:13:04 AM »
Hey Meesta,
Try these places for more LED's and stuff:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/
http://www.radiantz.com/
I'm puzzled about why you don't use just ONE flasher in your turn signals' circuit  ???  Those flashers aren't THAT expensive, I bought mine for less than $10 at the discount auto parts place.  I too am using the 1157 LED "bulbs" for my turn signals, and was able to buy them on eBay for $6 each (I'm using 2 in the front and 4 in the back). 
I'm also curious what kind of bulb you used in the speedo and tach.  I tried to put LED's in there and their light output was too directional to flood the inside of the instruments with usable light to do any good, so I abandoned the idea.

eldar

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2006, 08:33:20 AM »
How many leds did you use per socket? I.E. 12 bulb 18 or 24 bulb? After all, we have limited space in our signal housings! The brake I would probably use a 30 just to make sure it gets bright enough to get attention.

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2006, 09:43:52 AM »
Just a Pic of my tail lights with LED's

eldar

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2006, 10:39:08 AM »
Well that is different. I have the stock K light.

meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2006, 07:56:06 PM »
okay, so the single relay for the LEDs sounds like an easier task than what I did, so if you can give some more data on that I would like to know for my front. And the best type of LED for the insturment cluster is one that has an INVERTED lens. THis means that the LED is underneath a plastic 'bulb' that has a conical shape pointing down towards the LED. Thas causes the light to deflect out as well as up, thus lighting the whole cluster. You can also buy ones that have one LED up and four to the sides. These can be found on ebay and at the other links that we have posted above.
Here is a pic of an inveted hyper white 194, you can get these in numerous types of bulbs.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2006, 08:02:42 PM by meestabeck »

Offline Steve F

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2006, 02:20:55 AM »
okay, so the single relay for the LEDs sounds like an easier task than what I did, so if you can give some more data on that I would like to know for my front. And the best type of LED for the insturment cluster is one that has an INVERTED lens. THis means that the LED is underneath a plastic 'bulb' that has a conical shape pointing down towards the LED. Thas causes the light to deflect out as well as up, thus lighting the whole cluster. You can also buy ones that have one LED up and four to the sides. These can be found on ebay and at the other links that we have posted above.
Here is a pic of an inveted hyper white 194, you can get these in numerous types of bulbs.
That's cool, thanks for the info on the "inverted" LED's.
What more info are you looking for?  I'll be glad to help if I can.
Steve F

meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2006, 01:12:33 PM »
well, my question is, does your relay run the entire turn signal system from a single unit? Or do you have one for the front signals and one for the rear? Also, what is the specific name for them, so that I might find them on ebay.

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2006, 05:57:35 PM »
well, my question is, does your relay run the entire turn signal system from a single unit? Or do you have one for the front signals and one for the rear? Also, what is the specific name for them, so that I might find them on ebay.
It's called a "turn signal flasher" or just a "flasher" or some may call it a "flasher relay".  The electronic flasher I got replaces the stock unit that was installed at the factory.  There's only one, and it flashes the signals both front and rear at the same time.  Unless the wiring has been completely molested, the front and rear should be wired together (that is,  the lights on the left are wired together, and the lights on the right are wired together). Depending on which way the signal thumb switch is moved, determines which side is gonna flash through the single flasher.  I would suggest that you get an electrical schematic of your model and year of bike you have, and study it carefuly to understand what's going on.
Don't get freaked out by all the lines on the schematic, but folow it systematically, starting at the signal bulb, and following it backward through the circuit.  You'll get it.

meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2006, 12:10:49 PM »
Thats sounds fine to me. I was lucky enough to get an aftermarket HONDA service and repair manual with my bike at the time of purchase, and I have already taken a look at me wiring schematic. I will look at this aspect of it and perhaps be able to take your route. It sounds a heck of a lot easier than the relays that I had to hide in  my rear fender. Thanks again.

meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2006, 01:20:21 PM »
Hey steve, I found a universal flasher, and I am curious if you think it will fit. Just kidding, its a 12volt, but it is a 3 prong. And if my memory serves me, my nighthawk has a 2 prong relay.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2006, 10:29:05 PM by meestabeck »

Offline Steve F

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2006, 06:09:40 PM »
Hey steve, I found a universal flasher, and I am curious if you think it will fit. Just kidding, its a 12volt, but it is a 3 prong. And if my memory serves me, my nighthawk has a 2 prong relay.
You may be able to use it, and then again it may not work, especially with LED's.  Unless it's the electronic type, you're probably not going to get it to flash.  If it is electronic type, you need to figure out the pin connections to get it to work because these things are polarity and load dependant.  You should have somewhere in the vacinity of where the flasher mounts a green wire that goes nowhere.  Use that wire to ground the flashers' negative pin.  Next find the lead that goes live when you operate the signal switch (left or right) and that will be your supply or positive connection.  The last one's a no-brainer.
Good luck with your project.  Later, Steve F

Offline cbjunkie

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2006, 07:47:35 PM »
hey guys - this is a great thread - i've been wanting to start on myself, but you all beat me to it!

I'm trying to rig up LED bar end flashers - ideally the wiring would be inside the bars and i'd drill a small hole between the clamps.

has anyone seen any LEDs that you think would work for this type of application?

thanks,
cbj...
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meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2006, 09:25:40 PM »
Hey cbj,
Am I understanding you correctly if I were to say that you are basically mounting turn signals OUT of you handlebars? If this is the case, there is a type of LED flasher that is used on top of the shock that might work for your application. Here is a link to the sight that I saw it on ( http://www.customdynamics.com/custom_led_turn_signals.htm ) . I have no idea if it will function for ya, but the rest of the site has a lot of good customizable LEDs to look at.

Offline cbjunkie

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2006, 07:10:10 AM »
yah, dammit - i looked at that after you posted it before - i actually wrote to the guy there and proposed my idea - i think they are used to dealing with Harleys because he acted like he'd never heard of 7/8" bars before!

i'm still looking  :-[  ...but i'll figure it out if i have to carve them out of basswood myself.
1971 750K1
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sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
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meestabeck

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Re: Grounds, leads and fuses Oh MY!
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2006, 08:44:34 PM »
that sucks dude, did you look at the flexible LED strips? they might work for a 7/8ths. If not, tell me what the heck you finally do.