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Offline Laminar

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2010, 01:08:07 PM »
Oh, these are multiple definitions? I thought these were a lit of prerequisites for "theory".

In that case, I reject all but #2 for this particular situation.

Yes, sorry. Link.

Offline TwoTired

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« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2010, 01:28:53 PM »
I have to ask if keeping the stock intake configuration were imperative to the operation of these old bikes, why can't Honda maintain support for them by reproducing the often damaged rubber parts?
Because when Soichiro Honda died, his mandate that parts continue to be produced for every Honda ever made, was overturned by those in the company determined to follow a business model for profit.
Honda DOES make parts available when a demand is presented.  But, they will not lose money doing so.  In some respects it becomes a chicken and egg issue.  Parts aren't available because there is no demand for them.  People don't order them because they find a more immediate substitute "that will do", or because they feel the part is too expensive, etc.  So, from a certain viewpoint, people putting pods on the bike becomes a "cause" for why original replacement parts aren't available.  The threshold for demand likely varies with the part in question.  Costs for setting up tooling, minimum production runs, warehousing costs, distribution costs, have to add to the bottom line without negative impact.  You can bet that if all the distribution centers suddenly had orders for 100 sets of carb couplers, a few months later, they would no longer be on discontinued status.

Those parts deteriorate and there is little alternative.
 
The fact is, that these parts are also destroyed by ham handed neophyte mechanics, too.  But yes, you are right rubber and plastic are not centuries durable.  However, how many manufacturers produce a consumer product expecting a 50 year life cycle?  Again there are economic trade offs.  Some companies actually produce product with planned obsolescence.  I expect Honda used the most favorable items that current materials science had to offer at the time.

Could you explore, at least some of the theory, why pods do work, what their limitations are, and in what situations they might be appropriate? This way the guys who are running pods aren't instantly on the defensive and the argument is fully balanced.
Wow.  I think that is a tall order on many levels.  I do have examples of the stock equipment to examine/analyze.  I do not have every example of every pod ever produced, or from every manufacturer, to analyze/examine.   When I searched the internet for filter cross section pictures, it was nearly impossible to see internal cutaways of pod filters.  The marketing is all geared toward outside appearance, rather than how they work internally.  This is not a bash, but simply an observation.
It's not that I haven't looked for a superior pod filter.  I just haven't found one, whose design said much beyond "we're shiny and keep out the bugs".   I think those are the buyers they are trying to reach.

Some observations about pods:
- Individual pods preclude the possibility of delivering the same air pressure, air quantity, air temperature to each of the four carb entrances.
(Isn't the goal to have all four cylinders firing the same and producing the same power in concert?)

- Pods do give the possibility (not a guarantee) of more total filter media area offered to engine induction.
If for example, you increased the volumetric efficiency of the engine such that it required more total volume of air, then a larger surface area of filter media, or one less discriminating in the particle size passed through it, would be indicated.  But let's face it, this is only required of the stock engine operated very near or beyond the red line, and those engines modified away from stock specifications (bore, stroke, cam, ports, valves, etc.)
Anyway, if you had just one big pod (to gain large filter surface area) and moved it away from the carb entrance and had the proper flow ducting into each carb...  Viola!  a "benefit" of pod (singular).  
But, if "the look" (which let's face it is akin to a religious argument, not a technical one) of four individual pods needs a technical champion, I'm not sure I can provide that function, due to lack of positive technical data.  And, I suggest that it might be easier to convince a group of persons that orange is a far better color than black.  As has been said, personal preference trumps just about any technical merit in this matter, among those of a predetermined outlook.  I just don't think you can change the laws of physics by popular vote.

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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2010, 02:00:37 PM »
Was volume taken into consideration? It is very important too especially when modifying engines and the intake/exhaust ports (which are very restrictive even in stock form).


Was this ever addressed?  I guess the question is, for modified engines, does the benefit from the extra volume one gets with pods outweigh the disadvantages TT pointed out...?

(Is there, indeed, an increase in volume with pods?  (I assume so, but I don't know for sure.))
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2010, 02:11:10 PM »
One point I would like to add in favor of the airbox is the rear support for the carbs. These are not light carbs. Many who mount them appear to do so without taking rear support into the equation. So you have carbs that hang at an angle. Probably not the best for the manifold rubbers for longevity and (maybe) possible additional air leaks over time.
besides that, I wonder how the constant angle affects the float levels. All of this is just my thoughts. It could be that no rear support has no effect.
It is something that I probably wont test as I am satisfied with the airbox stuffed with a k&n filter.

Offline Laminar

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2010, 02:12:47 PM »
Was this ever addressed?  I guess the question is, for modified engines, does the benefit from the extra volume one gets with pods outweigh the disadvantages TT pointed out...?

(Is there, indeed, an increase in volume with pods?  (I assume so, but I don't know for sure.))

Pods offer the possibility of additional airflow, but "volume" could also refer to the volume of the airbox itself rather than just the volume of air dynamically entering the engine, as that volume has an effect on performance.

TT already addressed airflow.

Offline mystic_1

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2010, 02:20:43 PM »
The volume of the airbox cavity itself makes a big difference to pulsed intake tuning, as the airbox itself is a large resonating chamber.

From:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance

Quote
When air is forced into a cavity, the pressure inside increases. Once the external force that forces the air into the cavity disappears, the higher-pressure air inside will flow out. However, this surge of air flowing out will tend to over-compensate, due to the inertia of the air in the neck, and the cavity will be left at a pressure slightly lower than the outside, causing air to be drawn back in. This process repeats with the magnitude of the pressure changes decreasing each time.

This effect is akin to that of a bungee-jumper bouncing on the end of a bungee rope, or a mass attached to a spring. Air trapped in the chamber acts as a spring. Changes in the dimensions of the chamber adjust the properties of the spring: a larger chamber would make for a weaker spring, and vice-versa.

The air in the port (the neck of the chamber) has mass. Since it is in motion, it possesses some momentum. A longer port would make for a larger mass, and vice-versa. The diameter of the port is related to the mass of air and the volume of the chamber. A port that is too small in area for the chamber volume will "choke" the flow while one that is too large in area for the chamber volume tends to reduce the momentum of the air in the port.

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Offline TwoTired

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« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2010, 02:27:27 PM »
I think you mean "I can't see this as practical..."
Yes, for a machine primarily intended for street use.

and it makes total sense that the pulse compression effect you describe would only be significant under certain running conditions.  Does this mean, that effect aside, that distance from the valve to the venture and from the venture to the filter media make little difference (aside from the filter being far enough away from the carb to prevent vorticies from entering the carbs)?

The venturi is where fuel meets air to start the atomization dispersion process.  I expect there is some length where that process is fully completed and ideally would do so before or as the cylinder is done filling, and before the valve is closed.  At higher air speeds, longer is better for the atomization process to fully complete.   Lots, of mitigating factors.  I saw one case where a short intake runner had vortex generators placed within in it, which greatly enhanced the atomization of the fuel into the air.  However, I'm sure that at some velocity, those same vortex generators would reduce the amount of charge reaching the cylinder due the drag induced.  There is also the geometry of the valve to chamber transition, and where that is placed in relation to the charge entering the chamber.
As for the venturi inlet duct.  The main goal is for laminar inlet flow.  However, the longer the inlet runner, the closer the venturi metering jets are relative to vacuum source.  Atomization is more rapid under higher differential pressures.  So, a longer inlet runner to the venturi may allow a shorter runner between venturi and valve face to get complete atomization.
I think I used this example recently elsewhere.  Ah, I found it.

For simplicity, lets compare two theoretical tubes (because we have no real data for the systems we use now.)

1 - A 12 inch runner, where exists on one end 30 inches of vacuum, and the other zero (as referenced to local atmospheric pressure.)
Lets locate a fuel metering jet exit port 1/3 the way from the vacuum source  (or Four inches).
 The inside of the tube will have a gradient difference of vacuum within it.  For the purpose of illustration, let's say that it is a strictly linear relationship.
One third away from the vacuum source would therefore be  2/3 of the full 30 inch difference, or 20 inches of mercury which the pressure difference pulls the fuel into the intake runner tube.

2. Cut the intake runner tube in half to 6 inches.  It has the same gradient differential end to end as the longer one (30 inches Hg at one end, 0 inches Hg at the air inlet), but over a shorter distance.  The fuel metering exit is not moved, it is still 4 inches from the source.  But, is now 2/3 along the length of the entire runner.  Assuming the same linear gradient relationship along the tube, the fuel metering jet exit port now sees only 10 inches of vacuum pulling on the fuel jet exit, as it is nearer to the pressure equalizing inlet.

Since you are asking about moving both the venturi as well as the jet exit along a tube which is the entire intake duct, making the relative distance to the source closer should decrease the atomization time "in duct" along its length.  I don't know what that time is, though.  And, I don't know at what velocity the venturi effect pressure drop exceeds the drop cause by the sucking engine.

Dunno... does this help?

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Offline Syscrush

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2010, 02:35:01 PM »
There's a lot of good info in this thread. The stuff that's based on fluid dynamics is great.  The stuff that suggests that stock must be best because hoo boy those engineers at Honda were some kinda smart is ludicrous.  Also the claim that engineers care not a whit for aesthetics is ridiculous on its face.  Engineers are human beings and as human beings we make decisions that try to strike a balance between our intellectual understandings and our emotional preferences.

I think that a very good point was made that all modern sport and race bikes run airboxes.  The benefits have been well understood for a long time, but this thread provides a very clear and lucid explanation of those benefits and where they come from.

With all that said, I'm an engineer and I'll be running pods fitted to some carburetion solution that will allow me to tune out the problems - because they look more in keeping with the style of my build, they sound better to me, and the suspension mods I have planned would interfere with the stock airbox.  Also, I couldn't possibly care less about performance for a 35 year old 550cc 500lbs machine with bias ply tires - the carbs & ignition will be tuned for driveability, that's all.

Doesn't mean I don't understand fluid dynamics or that I'm a bad engineer.
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Offline TwoTired

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« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2010, 03:11:44 PM »
initially i had planned to but some jets, fiddle around and make it run better, but im definately on the look out for an airbox after reading all that. the one thing i wanted to know is regarding the head breather 'blow by' system. i understand the environmental considerations but it seems kindof goofy in terms of engine performance. would the combustion temp not be raised by burning oil gasses?
No, not significantly.  There is far too little quantity to have much effect.  Now, if your oil level starts dropping as well, then that may change things.  But, that is indicative of some other serious issue.

what im getting at is could, after refitting an airbox and airbox filter in the standard housing, can i remove the breather system? obviously i would leave the breather tube in place, just vent to atmosphere. at the moment the air filter box is pretty oily and does not smell good, i prefer the idea of an oil free dry atmoshere for air filtration.
Well yes, you can.  But, in my experience the filter cavity only gets munged up if the breather element is clogged preventing the correct breathing of the engine case by the inlet vacuum.  Further, some race engines actually run negative pressure in the crankcase to help seal rings at high RPM and reduce blowby.  If the breather system is properly maintained, it is a win-win situation. The down side it that it requires periodic maintenance.

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Offline TwoTired

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« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2010, 03:17:15 PM »

It is a reduced diameter tube and it routes down to behind engine and in front of the swing arm.[/quote]
Then it is the same tube as on the CB500. Thanks. BTW, that reduced diameter tube has a foam disc in it where it expands to fit on the nipple. This is just a moisture drain, I assume? Hose #6 isn't available anymore, but I've fitted one that has a cap in the end that gets removed occasionally
for draining the breather residue.
Stu
[/quote]
I never noticed the foam stuffed in it.  But, that is certainly a worthy addition.
But, it is not just a moisture drain, unless carbs overflowing gas and filling the chamber is termed "moisture".
I think the drain is insurance against induction fires.

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Offline MRieck

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« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2010, 03:32:14 PM »
There's a lot of good info in this thread. The stuff that's based on fluid dynamics is great.  The stuff that suggests that stock must be best because hoo boy those engineers at Honda were some kinda smart is ludicrous.  Also the claim that engineers care not a whit for aesthetics is ridiculous on its face.  Engineers are human beings and as human beings we make decisions that try to strike a balance between our intellectual understandings and our emotional preferences.

I think that a very good point was made that all modern sport and race bikes run airboxes.  The benefits have been well understood for a long time, but this thread provides a very clear and lucid explanation of those benefits and where they come from.

With all that said, I'm an engineer and I'll be running pods fitted to some carburetion solution that will allow me to tune out the problems - because they look more in keeping with the style of my build, they sound better to me, and the suspension mods I have planned would interfere with the stock airbox.  Also, I couldn't possibly care less about performance for a 35 year old 550cc 500lbs machine with bias ply tires - the carbs & ignition will be tuned for driveability, that's all.

Doesn't mean I don't understand fluid dynamics or that I'm a bad engineer.
Correct. Very large airboxes. It wasn't until downdraft heads and perimeter frames that engineers could get the size they were after. Obviously they wanted larger boxes because that's what they did and have continued to do...even for "small"engines.  The ZX-11 and the ZX-7 really started the ball rolling IMO in regard to appropriate volume and ram air. Now has anybody here modified airbox flapper systems/ internals on modern airboxes?
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Offline TwoTired

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« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2010, 03:45:22 PM »
Some of us are running custom frames, and or different carbs. So the stock induction is not going to help us.
But, the design cues can...

Some of us like our bikes stock, some like changing them..
yes.  I'm just trying to help them change for the better when this happens.  I think I've been pretty consistent toward that goal, whether stock or other wise.  I can't think of a time, "off hand" when I've offered data or advise intended to make their bike run worse.
Oh wait, there was the time I recommend 5 or 6 inline filters over just the lonely one.  But, I think people understood that to be 'ill-advised".  ;D

I have to ask you this TT, what engine mods have you done to your bike , by this I mean induction, carbs, engine, & exhaust?

What are you asking for, a qualifying resume?    It's a forgone conclusion that I will never impress you or meet any of your standards.  So just declare victory and move on, ok?  I know I can't "reach" everyone here, and I accept that.  I will continue to offer help when able for those that ask.
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Offline MRieck

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« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2010, 05:55:45 PM »
 Loyd has never claimed to have pursued major engine renovation or reinvention at least as far as I can remember. As for me I can't remember the last time I did not modify an engine. Stock machines will not noticably benefit performance wise from the use of individual filters IMO. Back to back dyno tests would be the final word BUT if any increases were noted they would be not worth the expense and effort.
  That being said all I use are K&N individual filters on my CB and FJ1314. Aftermarket carbs do not work with the stock box 99% of the time secondary to spacing and bellmouth diameters. I do not use stock carbs and haven't for years. You CAN get aftermarket carbs, CR's, FCR's RS's TMR's etc, to work as well...if not better... as the stock setup IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. My 2 bikes idle perfectly and carburet as well if not better than the OEM set ups they replaced. I have the dyno charts and A/F charts to prove it.
 K&N's biggest drawbacks IMO are the fact they don't filter that well and they aren't good in the rain. The rain doesn't matter on my FJ as the side panels form a pseudo "airbox". Paper elements filter the best but are restrictive compared to the cotton elements.
  Here are some pics of individual filter adapters that address some points Loyd raised.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 06:06:59 PM by MRieck »
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Offline MRieck

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« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2010, 05:57:03 PM »
 The FCR's
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Offline wannabridin

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2010, 06:51:36 PM »
can the carburetors saw AAWWWWWWW!!!  damn mike, those are HUGE!  but dang nice bellmouth's there, those look SO trick!!!  i wish i had the $$$ and patience to get a set of CR's to work, but i'm feeling those will be for an 836 kit one of these days!!
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Offline mystic_1

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« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2010, 06:57:03 PM »
Dunno... does this help?


Yup, thanks!

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Offline edbikerii

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« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2010, 08:32:55 PM »
The increased volume of air that pod filters flow clearly has NOT been addressed.  If pods did not flow more air, then there would be no need to re-jet with mains that flow more fuel.  Air/fuel ratio MUST be the same in order for the engine to run well.  Chemistry is chemistry.  Flow more air, you need more fuel.  Flow less air, you need less fuel.  Get more air/fuel mixture into engine, you get more horsepower.

Re-jetting to larger jets does not mean that you give up fuel mileage, either.  Having more power might just mean that you don't need to open the throttle as much in order to generate the same acceleration or maintain the same velocity.

When I re-jetted my bike I went from 90 mains to 105 mains.  That's a 16.67% increase in fuel requirement, which, based on balanced chemical reactions, indicates that approximately 16.67% more air is flowing, too.
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Offline 754

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« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2010, 09:00:34 PM »
I will have to say I tend to agree with paragraph 2 of the last post by Ed.


...........................................................................................

I will try to straighten out a question I posted that is either misunderstood, taken the wrong way or did not carry the meaning across..

 I asked TT what mods he had done to his...engine, intake, exhaust. What I was trying to get a feel of is his riding style or perhaps more what he expects of a machine.
 
 Differing needs ask for different solutions.

......................................................................................

 TT suggested there was no need to play with the jetting, if it is correctly set.
 Where we live we are at 100-1300 feet.. Our strip is only 25 miles from here it is over 4000 feet. If we drive 4 hrs west to race we are at 50 ft above sea level, so I would say our needs are different.. I can change my jets in 3 minutes or under without draining gas, I like being able to do that

 Right now I am riding a pretty stock 74 750 (including the irbox), I have not tried tuning it. I am finding it very sluggish, compared to my wore out 836 I rode up till 07.  BNut it seems to run OK, and get me down the road.

When I was much younger and had my first 750,s, I soon changed the exhaust, air filters, clutch, and spent most of my time in the upper part of the rpm range, constantly redlining it, and racing everything in sight.

 I now ride this stock one much differently, in fact I pretty well never redline it, dont get much out of winding it out.. pretty bring to do so.. cant say that about a cammed 836cc..

 So, what you like to use it for, in my opinion, makes a huge difference.

 My 836cc did not usually idle, I would set the carbs for wide open, that is all that mattered. Due to my 1 pce cast manifold being split into 2pces, and the way I chose to mount it, it was not ideal at low rpms, which never bothered me much, pull in the cluch grab a handful of R,s and slip the clutch.. or downshift. That is why I prefer Barnetts, slip the hell out of it off the line, and it keeps taking it..

 Do I miss stock carbs on the 836, never..
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Offline mystic_1

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« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2010, 09:03:07 PM »
The increased volume of air that pod filters flow clearly has NOT been addressed.  If pods did not flow more air, then there would be no need to re-jet with mains that flow more fuel.  Air/fuel ratio MUST be the same in order for the engine to run well.  Chemistry is chemistry.  Flow more air, you need more fuel.  Flow less air, you need less fuel.  Get more air/fuel mixture into engine, you get more horsepower.

Re-jetting to larger jets does not mean that you give up fuel mileage, either.  Having more power might just mean that you don't need to open the throttle as much in order to generate the same acceleration or maintain the same velocity.

When I re-jetted my bike I went from 90 mains to 105 mains.  That's a 16.67% increase in fuel requirement, which, based on balanced chemical reactions, indicates that approximately 16.67% more air is flowing, too.



I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread or not, but one effect of pods (apparently, I've never measured this) is to REDUCE the amount of vacuum at the venture, because you no longer have a restriction at the end of the airbox.  Sort of like trying to suck through a pinched straw as opposed to an open one.  Which one results in more negative pressure inside the straw?

So, with less vacuum to draw up the gas, you're drawing less gas.  Increase jet size to compensate and restore proper mixture.

That's my understanding of it, anyway.

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« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 09:18:59 PM by mystic_1 »
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Offline edbikerii

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« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2010, 09:11:17 PM »
Sorry, but if the straw were "punched" (blocked you mean?) the vacuum would be HIGHER.  But either way, gasoline is a non-compressible fluid, so as long as there is enough vacuum to pull ANY gas out of the jets, then the volume will be the same.

The increased volume of air that pod filters flow clearly has NOT been addressed.  If pods did not flow more air, then there would be no need to re-jet with mains that flow more fuel.  Air/fuel ratio MUST be the same in order for the engine to run well.  Chemistry is chemistry.  Flow more air, you need more fuel.  Flow less air, you need less fuel.  Get more air/fuel mixture into engine, you get more horsepower.

Re-jetting to larger jets does not mean that you give up fuel mileage, either.  Having more power might just mean that you don't need to open the throttle as much in order to generate the same acceleration or maintain the same velocity.

When I re-jetted my bike I went from 90 mains to 105 mains.  That's a 16.67% increase in fuel requirement, which, based on balanced chemical reactions, indicates that approximately 16.67% more air is flowing, too.



I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread or not, but one effect of pods (apparently, I've never measured this) is to REDUCE the amount of vacuum at the venture, because you no longer have a restriction at the end of the airbox.  Sort of like trying to suck through a punched straw as opposed to an open one.  Which one results in more negative pressure inside the straw?

So, with less vacuum to draw up the gas, you're drawing less gas.  Increase jet size to compensate and restore proper mixture.

That's my understanding of it, anyway.

mystic_1
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Offline mystic_1

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« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2010, 09:22:29 PM »
Sorry, but if the straw were "punched" (blocked you mean?) the vacuum would be HIGHER.  But either way, gasoline is a non-compressible fluid, so as long as there is enough vacuum to pull ANY gas out of the jets, then the volume will be the same.

Sorry yes, meant "pinched".  Edited previous post.

With an airbox, you have a pinched straw (restriction).  With pods, you have an open straw (no restriction).  So pods = less vacuum, which is what I said before.

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Offline edbikerii

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« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2010, 09:38:51 PM »
Yes, you definitely have lower vacuum with PODS because there is less restriction.  But, it doesn't matter.  At idle, the slides are closed, so the vacuum behind them is high regardless of filter.  At part to WOT, the vacuum is sufficient to pull the fuel through, and fuel is an incompressible liquid, so the same amount of fuel is pulled through the fixed-size jet.  As long as sufficient vacuum is present to pull fuel, the flow will always be the same, since more fuel cannot be pushed through the hole regardless of the pressure differential behind it.

Another analogy:  You have a giant aquarium.  You drill a 1/4" hole near the bottom of the aquarium.  The volume of water that flows will be exactly the same as if you had drilled a 1/4" hole near the bottom of a glass of water.  The pressure is higher near the bottom of the aquarium, but you still are not going to flow more gallons of water per second.

Air is compressible, so if you super-charge or turbo-charge, for example, you need to put more fuel into the same volume of air so that it will burn properly.

Sorry, but if the straw were "punched" (blocked you mean?) the vacuum would be HIGHER.  But either way, gasoline is a non-compressible fluid, so as long as there is enough vacuum to pull ANY gas out of the jets, then the volume will be the same.

Sorry yes, meant "pinched".  Edited previous post.

With an airbox, you have a pinched straw (restriction).  With pods, you have an open straw (no restriction).  So pods = less vacuum, which is what I said before.

mystic_1
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Offline scottly

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2010, 09:40:28 PM »
I have three things to say:

1: There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the stock Honda system.

2: If you have to/chose to run pods, your bike will run reasonably well without any jetting changes.

3: PLEASE STOP SCARING THE HELL OUT OF THE NEWBIES!!!!
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Offline edbikerii

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« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2010, 09:45:50 PM »
NO!  That is absolutely NOT TRUE!  My bike ran like crap when I switched from air-box to pods without re-jetting.  There just wasn't enough fuel for all the additional air at larger throttle openings.  Once I re-jetted properly, she ran like a scalded cat.

2: If you have to/chose to run pods, your bike will run reasonably well without any jetting changes.
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Offline scottly

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Split - What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system?
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2010, 09:53:54 PM »
NO!  That is absolutely NOT TRUE!  My bike ran like crap when I switched from air-box to pods without re-jetting.  There just wasn't enough fuel for all the additional air at larger throttle openings.  Once I re-jetted properly, she ran like a scalded cat.

2: If you have to/chose to run pods, your bike will run reasonably well without any jetting changes.
Then that is a testimonial that the stock air-box is indeed restrictive, and acted like a choke at the larger openings...
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