Author Topic: CB350F Rear wheel off center?  (Read 3570 times)

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Offline Mille44

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CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« on: March 24, 2010, 08:35:12 PM »
So stripping the bike down to paint the frame, I notice that the rear wheel is off center of the frame and the swing arm. Is this typical or has someone been messing with the spacers for some reason? Maybe they are reversed?

Spacers are (without taking the rear apart):

Sprocket side: .825 inches
Brake Side: 1.150 inches

There is about 1/2" clearance on the right side from the swingarm and about 1 1/4" on the left and about 1/4" from the brake arm.... ???
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 03:20:26 PM by Mille44 »

Offline scottly

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Re: CB350F Rear off center?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 08:56:42 PM »
I will hazard a guess that the spacers are reversed??

No, just looked more closely; the thick spacer is already on the right. The chain adjusters look to be about the same... Bent swing-arm??? Or is this a hodgepodge of parts?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 09:02:00 PM by scottly »
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Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear off center?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 09:52:21 AM »
The chain adjusters are the same. Thats the first think I checked... How would you measure for a bent swingarm? And, if some of the parts are not original to the bike, how do you tell?

Offline Jordan

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 10:03:10 AM »
No expert but to me the last photo looks like the radius is off slightly on the right, could be that arm was squeezed inwards at some point, also hard to tell but it looks like the spacer may be shorter Your best bet would be to find a stock example to compare with.

Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 10:20:32 AM »
Do you think the swing arms from a 350 twin is the same as the 350 four? Do they interchange with each other?


Offline MCRider

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 10:25:05 AM »
man that looks weird, never noticed it before? Whats the history on the bike? Was the rear wheel re-laced at some point? Couldbe offset from poor lace job. The sprocket side spacer is really large (long) compared to a CB750 so its suspicious. But a longer spacer of more than a fraction would never fit into the swingarm.
A swingarm bent enough to cause that would have other clues, dented tubing, bent frame, accident evidence.

Good luck.   ???
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Offline MCRider

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 10:26:24 AM »
Measure the lengths of the installed shocks eye to eye. One shorter than the other indicates bent swingarm. but I lean to the lacing.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 11:03:12 AM »
The bike has 37 years of history. But its unknown to me. ::) I bought the bike in early January and have been working towards a road race or cafe racer when its finished. This is my first project bike, so I dont have a lot of history with machines that have been through several owners and several mods. I thought that the bike had had many cosmetic mods but the bones were good. Now I'm not too sure, let alone how to fix it...

Offline rempy

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 11:05:03 AM »
Took some quick pics of my 350F. Spacers looks more or less the same-
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Offline MCRider

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 12:54:22 PM »
Pull the wheel and see if it comes out easliy and if the swingarm goes "BOING".

Did you ever ride it like that? Does did the chain line up?
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Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 01:12:06 PM »
Just a couple of little scoots, no more than 5 miles apeice. I did not really look at the chain when I took it off with the grinding wheel. I didnt even notice the offset until after I got the motor out.... :(

Offline flybox1

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 01:14:00 PM »
did you have to counter steer much  :D
looks canted to the right, as well as 'steered' to the right.
am i seeing that correctly?
does it wobble as you spin the wheel?
if it does, its lacing, and i'd get that one on a truing stand asap.
if not, i'd guess L fork of the swingarm (looking from rear)is bent up and in

your spacer specs are the same as mine.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 01:22:10 PM by flybox1 »
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Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 01:23:13 PM »
It looks straight to me, just offset, the camera kinda does that to the picture (i noticed it before too). I guess I really wont know what to do with it until I get the engine back into the frame so I can line up the front sprocket with the rear.... I just wanted to paint the frame and swingarm togther, now it may be a two step process.... >:(

Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 10:24:34 AM »
Well, I pulled the swing arm off last night to inspect a bit closer. Nothing really seems to be the matter with the swing arm, everything was really easy to remove, no binding or anything. The only thing that was wrong with the rear suspension was that the settings on the shocks were different for each side and one of the upper rubber bushings was only half of what it should be, but changing them (the shocks) to be equal (both are compressed to 7-1/2”) did not do anything for the location of the wheel in the swing arm. The tire was still about 1/2” and inch from the swing arm and 1/4” from the brake arm lever. Still no good. Removing the swing arm bolt, man that thing was a bear to get out, after pussyfooting around it for a half an hour or so, I decided to get the 2 pound sledge out…. I know, I know…. But, she was pretty well corroded in there, and the “Enforcer” got it out with the use of a half inch extension about 16” long. I guess I’m going to have to wait until I get the motor back in the frame, the hub polished and the wheel back into the bike to tackle this problem again. I think the problem is totally solvable with either the correct spacers for the 350Four or a custom set of machined spacers. If anyone thinks there is a better way to go about it, I’m all ears…

Offline MCRider

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 10:43:33 AM »
As you noticed shock length does not change when you change the pre-load. If you think about it you can understand why, the shock is at maximum extension whether its got a 10lb spring on it or 100 lb spring.

With the wheel out slide the axle back in and spin it to see if its true. Finally, the rim should be evenly spaced above the spoke flanges on the hub, not favoring either side. If your polishing the hub, will you disassemble the wheel?

You shouldn't have to make spacers. I suspect the trueness of the wheel. OCICBW.

You've got a problem dude, you'll find an answer.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 10:45:16 AM »
with shocks corrected(bushings and compressed length) and re- installed, and your frame level.....are your swingarm fork end level?  do you get the same measurement from shock mount at your seat to swingarm tips?
tough to think that a bad lacing put it that bad out of true (just thinking.....that if the lacing was bad, the whole tire would wobble around your (good, straight,level axle)  as long as the chain tensioners for the rear axle are the same.
for your tire to always be canted, and spin in that position, the axle is not true or level..or being held true and level.
measure from the swingarm bushings to the swing arm tips...are they the same?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 10:46:55 AM by flybox1 »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 10:58:18 AM »
with shocks corrected(bushings and compressed length) and re- installed, and your frame level.....are your swingarm fork end level?  do you get the same measurement from shock mount at your seat to swingarm tips?
tough to think that a bad lacing put it that bad out of true (just thinking.....that if the lacing was bad, the whole tire would wobble around your (good, straight,level axle)  as long as the chain tensioners for the rear axle are the same.
for your tire to always be canted, and spin in that position, the axle is not true or level..or being held true and level.
measure from the swingarm bushings to the swing arm tips...are they the same?

Yeah if the lacing was that bad there would be spoke nipples poking into the tube.  Still...

Can't wait to hear what's wrong.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 11:12:03 AM »

Yeah if the lacing was that bad there would be spoke nipples poking into the tube.  Still...

Can't wait to hear what's wrong.

true, and you'd get a "bent rim" wobble/spin around the hub.   :D  not fun even on short test rides...lol
if the wheel is (relatively) true, and spins in that canted/off center position, its being held in that position. 
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Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 08:44:11 PM »
Took everything apart today. Heres what the spacers look like in inches. Can someone confirn they are correct?

Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2010, 04:21:12 PM »
Bump. ;)
I would like to know if these are right or wrong. If there is a better way than comparisons to another 350f, I would go that route.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2010, 04:57:45 PM »
From the first pictures, specifically the one where it shows the rear axle bolt: it seems to stick out more than I remember (threads past the nut on the right side) on those bikes. That in itself isn't a big issue unless it points to something like this: once I got a bike in the shop (350 twin) that had the front wheel tilted on the axle. It looked really strange and handled worse. Turned out, the owner had replaced wheel bearings without installing the collar in between the bearings. After riding like this a while, one bearing loosened up a bit and tilted in toward the inside of the hub.The hint was that the owner had to "keep tightening the front axle because it was loose". He finally pushed the bearing inside the hub. The first clue I had was that the threads stuck out too far past the nut on the axle. The bearing finally fell inside the hub: I just got another collar and installed the new bearing: I could not get the old bearing out of the hub! It always rattled when riding slow...  ::)

My gut feeling from the pictures: one axle adjuster may not be set equal to the other. If someone swapped out one of the adjusters with one from another (possibly different model) bike, the hole for the axle could be too big, letting that side slide forward too much. (I'm thinking left side, here...). Or, the hole could just be centered in a different spot on the adjuster, so the marks line up, but not the axle. Since Honda shared many axles with different models, many of which used yet another chain adjuster from a different model, this can happen in junkyard swaps.

So, I'd measure from the swingarm bolt's center to the axle's center. Estimating from the picture, you have an "offset" of about 1/2" (13mm) of position (i.e., one-half the difference between the sides, where one is 1/4" and the other 1-1/14", if I understand correctly): this would only be 0.5"/9"=0.055" difference at the axle, side to side (in metric, about 1mm, not very much!). So, try measuring carefully from the axle center to the swingarm bolt center: that will tell the story, whatever it is. Then you can track down the cause.

Typically, the clearance to the brake arms on these bikes was about 1cm at the tire, if stock tires were used. The CB350F rear tire was only 3.75 x 18 when new, so if your tire is larger, expect less distance. I think the biggest rear tire that would fit the 350F was the 4.10x18 in TT100 V-profile, leaving about 1/8" clearance to the brake arm. I saw more than one brake arm modified for larger tires, some not too gracefully...
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Offline MickeyX

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2010, 06:08:37 PM »
I don't know if it makes a difference, but your shocks don't look equal.
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Offline Mille44

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Re: CB350F Rear wheel off center?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2010, 04:44:33 PM »
I don't know if it makes a difference, but your shocks don't look equal.

Yeah, I caught that too when I removed the swingarm. You have GREAT eyes!  :)