Author Topic: 1978 CB750K — Post 836 OIL PRESSURE - Hopefully Good!?  (Read 248803 times)

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Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #350 on: February 24, 2013, 02:26:06 PM »
So that went very badly...



Tried double nutting for about 1.5 hours...maybe I budged it slightly...I sure sheared off a bunch of nuts an even switched over to the old front wheel disc nuts



Used heat and tapping and liquid wrench...



Then my neighbor came over with plumbing style wrenches. He told me they'd mess up the threads but turn them for sure...here's the result!




Not a good use of three hours...

1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #351 on: February 24, 2013, 02:51:52 PM »
They will try your patience. My current project had several bolts that insisted on breaking before budging. From the little screw that holds the front brake light switch behind the brake lever (78' CB750F) all the way up to one of the lower case bolts. I wasn't splitting the cases, just happened to notice what appeared to be a missing lower case bolt while chasing oil leaks. Tried to install a new bolt to no avail... since part of the bolt was broke off inside! Much cursing, filing, drilling, and even a helicoil (or two) later and repairs are complete. Take your time and continue to seek advice along the way.
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #352 on: February 24, 2013, 06:25:01 PM »
So I borrowed a stud remover and snapped off the rest of the stud...what happens now?





There's no way I can to this seven more times.

Plus I think I'll have to pull the motor to even attempt this...

Maybe that amazing exhaust just isn't meant to be
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
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2004 Honda CR-V
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #353 on: February 24, 2013, 07:52:23 PM »
Well... now you have to be honest about your own level of patience and ability. The first issue is to remove the remainder of the broken stud. This must be accomplished in order to even revert back to the original exhaust. This is where the ability part kicks in. I have had good results with left-hand drill bits. Start small, I usually start with 1/8" and work my way up. Often, when the drill bit "breaks through" the bottom of the offending "inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis" (bolt) there is a little extra "grab", when combined with the heat from drilling, will often twist the broken right out. This is a very satisfying feeling. There's also the possibility that:

A) The drill bit will drill clear through, leaving the broken piece intact. In this case I step up to the next larger bit and drill again. Repeat until the bolt finally twists itself out (remember you're drilling in reverse with a left-hand bit), or you've drilled out as much of the bolt as possible without drilling into the aluminum threads in the head. The hardest part is centering the bit when drilling the first hole AND keeping the bit straight. If it's off-center or crooked from the start then you will be limited to a smaller maximum drill size before damaging the aluminum. If you are maxxed out on the drill size, and the bolt is still stuck, then thats when the fun begins. I've been able to use diamond stones on a dremel to further grind away as much of the often off-center (or crooked) remaining threads as possible, and then resort to sharp dental picks to start picking at whats left of the bolt threads. You can also drill it oversize and do a helicoil repair, but I like to reserve this as a last resort. The success of a helicoil repair can also depend upon both the centeredness(?) (is that a word?) and or straightness of the first drilled hole.


orrrrr.....

B) The drill bit (and your heart) breaks. These (as well as broken easy(?)-outs) can be ground out with diamond stones on a Dremel, but this is more maddening than picking out thread remains.

Sooo... you have to ask yourself now, before proceeding any further:

Do you have the intestinal fortitude to see this through, or are you going to resign yourself to pulling the motor, then pulling the head, and taking the head to a machine shop for professional help? I have never had a broken bolt beat me, even if it finally ended up with a helicoil repair, but I have nearly given up more than once...













and I happen to be a very patient individual.
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #354 on: February 24, 2013, 08:08:41 PM »
If you do decide to go the machine shop route they MAY appreciate the head still attached to the bike. Check with them first and if you can load and haul that could be way easier for them and less expensive for you.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline 754

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #355 on: February 24, 2013, 10:17:18 PM »
Hey i got sPIGots for you
.You are having a lot of trouble.
 Usually I hold the two wrenches together when doing this... Try a few of the other ones they may be looser. But ALWAYS..always. As soon as it moves like a1/4turn ..work it back and forth, a bunch of times , in case there is a bit of galled aluminum stuck on the threads.. Gives it a chance to undo..rather than strip the thread.
 If you apply heat, that should have helped..warm up the aluminum around the stud.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline 754

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #356 on: February 24, 2013, 11:00:15 PM »
Muffler or welding shop can probablybget that out.. Weld a nut to it, let it cool..out she comes..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #357 on: February 25, 2013, 12:06:12 AM »
Thanks guys...I'll get this sorted!

I move next weekend, there's going to be a big of a delay regardless...

754- that's awesome about the spigots!

How long do you hold the torch on the head? 20 seconds? 1 minute? It's my first torch ever
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:07:45 AM by SKTP »
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
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2004 Honda CR-V
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Offline the technological J

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #358 on: February 26, 2013, 07:08:51 AM »
im gonna agree with mad motors about the left handed drill.... do not use easy outs or things like that ive had them snap and the have them stuck with a harder metal...
i would be very careful to center the first hole you drill and from there it should get a little easier
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Offline iron_worker

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #359 on: February 26, 2013, 07:36:17 AM »
I don't think you will hurt the head with a propane torch. The head itself is like 20lb of aluminum which is a great heat sink. You may also benefit from heating and quenching cycles to try and break the corrosion bond.

I went through this with a head stud while taking apart my motor.... I decided I would let a machine shop tackle the fix. Well $500 later it was out. Yikes. They tried welding a nut to what was left of the stud but I guess that just ended up snapping off below the surface. Then they had to set it up in the mill to and since the cylinder surface is at a weird angle and nothing really to reference from in assembled cases it took a couple hours to set it up on the mill.

If you pull the head you have the head gasket surface which should be 90 degrees to the studs if they decide to set it up in a mill... so that shouldn't be too hard. Welding a nut onto it and using an oxy-acet torch to heat it up red hot would probably be the best method.

IW

Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #360 on: February 26, 2013, 11:39:53 AM »
So they can weld something on to this? This is how it currently looks

1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
2003 Ducati M800ie
1997 Honda CR-V
2004 Honda CR-V
1966 Honda S90

Offline Vinhead1957

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #361 on: February 26, 2013, 11:57:08 AM »
That needs to be drilled and tapped. Start small in the center. And resist the urge to use an easy out. Not so easy when you break an easy out in there!

Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #362 on: February 26, 2013, 12:53:10 PM »
also that copper deal is a crushed, crush-gasket, correct?
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
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1997 Honda CR-V
2004 Honda CR-V
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Offline MCRider

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #363 on: February 26, 2013, 12:56:00 PM »
also that copper deal is a crushed, crush-gasket, correct?
Yes. Pick it out.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline iron_worker

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #364 on: February 26, 2013, 02:06:47 PM »
A very skilled TIG welder could possibly build up the end of that stud and attempt to extract it but if it is that stuck it may just end up snapping off deeper inside.

IW

Offline 754

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #365 on: February 26, 2013, 07:46:26 PM »
Muffler shops weld nuts to that..nothing to lose..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Hondajohn88

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Re: 1978 CB750K resto-mod - transmission shifter, is there a right way?
« Reply #366 on: March 01, 2013, 06:01:41 AM »
Triple A pipes acquired


Nice Score! As you can see the bike in my Avatar had them. Built in 1972. Got a lot of looks with those pipes. Really like the longer megaphone, seexy. There was a shorter one available also. I knew there had to be at least one more set in the world, and you got them. (well some other forum members have them too)  Have they ever been mounted?
I'm big on the originals.............But these are freakin sweet!
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Offline Garystratos201

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #367 on: March 01, 2013, 06:20:03 AM »
Nice Pipes.....Gary
Visit my build project;
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=111620.0

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Offline deafcaferacer

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #368 on: March 01, 2013, 06:40:14 AM »
I vote for intestinal fortitude!!  8)

One day at a time.

Divide and conquer.
'73 CB750k engine, hubs, and a '76 tank, on 'a 78 frame. Go figure.

Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #369 on: March 04, 2013, 10:49:52 AM »
I just moved...next step garage unpack and re-organisation

1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
2003 Ducati M800ie
1997 Honda CR-V
2004 Honda CR-V
1966 Honda S90

Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #370 on: March 10, 2013, 03:41:21 PM »



2 down, 5 to go plus one drill-out

I was not heating the block long enough. I put the torch on it for 1.5 minutes and basically they twist right out (with some force). I'm going to try to drill an off center hole in the snapped off one and hammer-twist it out...with heat and judging by the first two successful removals...I think it might just work...
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
2003 Ducati M800ie
1997 Honda CR-V
2004 Honda CR-V
1966 Honda S90

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #371 on: March 10, 2013, 05:32:32 PM »
good news!
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline SKTP

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #372 on: March 10, 2013, 07:11:00 PM »
All afternoon and 3.5 of them are out...I'm shearing the crap out of nuts and my hands are going to be bruised. All in all I'm happy...they can and will come out. But wow it's hard work
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 11:54:49 PM by SKTP »
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
2003 Ducati M800ie
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2004 Honda CR-V
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Offline Syscrush

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #373 on: March 11, 2013, 06:10:04 AM »
All afternoon and 3.5 of them are out...I'm shearing the crap out of nuts and my hands are going to be bruised. All in all I'm happy...they can and will come out. But wow it's hard work
It takes a lot to get heat into an aluminum head with just a propane torch.  I don't know if this helps or not, but I like to heat the head (or whatever the bolt/stud is threaded into) and then hit the bolt/stud with some WD-40 or other penetrating lube.  I think that the quench of the inner part might cause it to contract a bit and break the bond with the outer part - or at least give a bit of wiggle room to help separate them.
Life is precious: wear your f'n helmet!
There's nothing more expensive than a free bike...
FWIW, I'm not a shill for Race Tech - I've just got a thing for good suspension and the RTCE's are the most cost-effective mod for these old damping rod front ends.

Offline Gregorymoto

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Re: 1978 CB750K - double nut stud removal help
« Reply #374 on: March 11, 2013, 07:28:06 AM »
Dam........ I'm guessing your going to put all new studs in. Do your self a favor and put some Anti Seize on them when you install.
Sorry you have to go through this. I had to once my self. I pulled the motor apart  and over drilled and re threaded it. I was lucky that the Eng. Department at my school had a machine shop I could use.
Yep, i have issues with this sort of stuff.