Author Topic: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)  (Read 14252 times)

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Tham

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Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« on: April 05, 2010, 12:35:44 PM »
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=5752.msg20302#msg20302


Hey guys,
The FAQ's list a fix for stock cables by shoving 7 mm Accel wires in the stock coils after drilling them slightly.

questions:
1. has anyone done this lately as that is from 5 years ago.
2. What plug caps did you use (ngk rubber? Phenolic? straight? angled?)
3. what epoxy did you use to anchor the wire in?
4. wire preference?...Silicone core?...Copper core, something else?
5. Successful?


Before I go drilling into my stock coils I would like too hear from those
who have done it.
Thanks in advance

Offline Frostyboy

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 04:42:59 AM »
Personally I'm not all that keen to change away from copper, and not all that keen on drilling into the coils themselves either.
I'll be splicing new cables to the oldies fairly close to the coil outlet & staying with the resistor plug caps.
Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators.
We haven't met yet.
[CB550F1]

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 05:26:37 AM »
I recently changed my plug caps with 2 differant NGK styles
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Tham

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 08:37:56 AM »
I recently changed my plug caps with 2 differant NGK styles


Which ones?...
Is this on a 550?

If you have the part number that would be helpful.
Thanks

Tham

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 08:40:41 AM »
Personally I'm not all that keen to change away from copper, and not all that keen on drilling into the coils themselves either.
I'll be splicing new cables to the oldies fairly close to the coil outlet & staying with the resistor plug caps.

what wires are you going with & how are you splicing into the originals?
I could do that route...

Thanks in advance.

Offline camelman

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 08:46:28 AM »
I just did this last night.  I bought copper core wires from Z1 Enterprises and cut out the old wires.  Make sure to leave a good inch of old wire core to solder too.  I still have to fill it in with epoxy, but the cutting went easily (with a dremel), and the soldering was a cinch.  The numbered bands from the stock wires slip easily onto the Z1 wires too.

The whole project is going to cost $25 or so.  Much cheaper than buying new, and my stock coils are still good.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=208

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Tham

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 10:25:16 AM »
I just did this last night.  I bought copper core wires from Z1 Enterprises and cut out the old wires.  Make sure to leave a good inch of old wire core to solder too.  I still have to fill it in with epoxy, but the cutting went easily (with a dremel), and the soldering was a cinch.  The numbered bands from the stock wires slip easily onto the Z1 wires too.

The whole project is going to cost $25 or so.  Much cheaper than buying new, and my stock coils are still good.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=208

Camelman



Hey camelman,
did you do the mod where you actually slice the stock coils open?
I wasn't sure about that road.
(from reading the FAQ it has you build up the sliced away coil with epoxy...correct?)

would like to see your finished product before I go hacking up my coils.

I still have the numbered cables as well and should be able to switch all that over.
Thanks

Offline camelman

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 10:50:27 AM »
That's exactly what I did.  I sliced away the material that held the wire in place.  It will be another week before I have time to finish it.  My current plan is to use JB Weld or fiberglass epoxy to hold the new wires in place, and then fill and smooth over the epoxy with something like bondo.  I'm not sure if bondo specifically will take the heat from sitting directly over the engine, but I'm sure I can find something at the auto store.
If I ever replace the wires in the future, then I'll just cut them off a couple inches form the coil and use a splice joint to add new wire material.  I just figured it was time to remove the original wires since they were more like plastic than rubber.

I used a dremel with a grinding wheel to cut through the coil casing.  It cut well, but made a bit of smoke and sent little pieces of molten plastic flying around.  If you go that route, then do it outside or with good ventilation, and wear eye protection.

When slicing the material away, make sure to slice length-ways with the wire.  Cross-ways slices will leave ugly scars on the coil casing.  The last half inch or so of the raised hump that encases the wire should be left alone as it is a direct path into the coil.  I cut too far into it and broke through to the coil cavity in one area.  There is plenty of room around the coil, so it wasn't damaged, and it is not oil filled, so I can just fill in the hole.  I'll take pics tonight, and post the whole thing when I'm done in a week or so.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline 75cb550 (kyle)

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2010, 11:03:46 AM »
i used the NGK brand splicers. they work pretty good and were easy to install. i think they were $4 each, though. i got em on e-bizle..
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 11:05:50 AM by 75cb550 (kyle) »

Offline wingman

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 11:04:40 AM »
I would be interested in a walk through on this.

Wingman
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Tham

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 01:18:28 PM »
http://www.powersports360.com/eshopprod_cat_5326-5998-29303_product_678510.NGK_CABLE_SPLICER.htm?utm_source=VersaFeed&utm_medium=VersaFeed&utm_content=Ngk+Cable+Splicer&utm_campaign=base&v_traceback=c0404_0101_f0404_1850


Now we are talking...
So f-ing simple.

Now how about the ngk plug caps (resistor) rubber? or phenolic?

I have slightly angled ngks on there now that end up putting the plug wire a little too close to the exhaust stubs for my liking.
Has anyone had luck with a straight cap clearing all the protrusions on a 550 head?

Offline camelman

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 01:55:39 PM »
Tham,

Here's what I did.  I decided against the splice option because I wanted to replace all of the wire.

First pic is a test run with a length of old and new wire.
Second pic shows the coil where I broke through into the cavity.
Third pic shows the other side of the coils (these are for a CB350F, but same idea as yours).
Fourth pic shows the epoxy I used (water-tight, adheres to anything, and good to 500F).
Fifth pic shows the finished product ready for sanding and paint.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Tham

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 08:25:26 AM »
Tham,

Here's what I did.  I decided against the splice option because I wanted to replace all of the wire.

First pic is a test run with a length of old and new wire.
Second pic shows the coil where I broke through into the cavity.
Third pic shows the other side of the coils (these are for a CB350F, but same idea as yours).
Fourth pic shows the epoxy I used (water-tight, adheres to anything, and good to 500F).
Fifth pic shows the finished product ready for sanding and paint.

Camelman



That looks pretty damn good camelman.
Came out better than I would expect. ( I use clear epoxy to protect wiring on these cameras I build & it is next to impossible to get the epoxy to flow & stay where you want it.)

Offline elquenada

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 02:59:45 PM »
here's a dumb question.  Isnt quicksteel conductive?  I know they make a non-conductive type but I thought it looked a bit different.
1975 CB 550

"A veces lo que es contra lo justo
por la misma razón deleita el gusto" 
Lope de Vega

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 07:15:07 PM »
I recently changed my plug caps with 2 differant NGK styles


Which ones?...
Is this on a 550?

If you have the part number that would be helpful.
Thanks

Yes, on a 550F. I brought the the old ones to the Honda dealer and they matched  'em and ordered them.

Sorry, I don't have the part numbers.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline spitcrazy

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2010, 07:02:56 PM »
Doing this to mine now. Accel carbon core wires. I could see the coil cavity in one of mine but I didn't cut into it, it is just open under the wire...probably and air bubble from the molding process.

If you do this, when you solder, it is advisable to put a heat sink on the exposed wire (aligator clip will do) away from the clipped end. This will draw heat away from the coil as you solder so you don't cook it. It will also make for a quicker heat up of the wire.

 I soldered on some lengths of copper wire stolen from romex and inserted it into the new accel wire. This will allow an easy swap in the future. Then used high temp silicone to seal it. Ineed to epoxy the case as above to complete the job.

If you use Accel carbon conductor, I have found that the exterior of the conductor (it's a tube filled with fibres) conducts and the interior doesn't! you will need to expose some of the conductor, fold it back and insert the copper wire. Same goes for the boots!
 
1973 CB500 FOUR - German Model.... Funky Tailight!

Offline spitcrazy

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2010, 07:50:15 PM »
Pics for U. ;D..........Them yellow wires are purty!

Camelman, you are going to paint? Wow I never considered it cause no one sees them up under the tank. ;)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 07:59:15 PM by spitcrazy »
1973 CB500 FOUR - German Model.... Funky Tailight!

Offline elquenada

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2010, 08:13:18 PM »
i am going to cut into my 550's coils next weekend.  i found this write up on the prcedure and they mention a brass pin in the coil.  Is this also found in the Honda coils?

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?s=0152c5ed8c5557527d305c4e7aa82683&threadid=137
1975 CB 550

"A veces lo que es contra lo justo
por la misma razón deleita el gusto" 
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Offline spitcrazy

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2010, 09:49:14 PM »
i am going to cut into my 550's coils next weekend.  i found this write up on the prcedure and they mention a brass pin in the coil.  Is this also found in the Honda coils?

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?s=0152c5ed8c5557527d305c4e7aa82683&threadid=137

I didnt see a pin, on the short lead it appeared to be soldered as I uncovered a solder lump while grinding. After reading your link, I think I will seal it all up with silicone and support with zip ties so I can change them easily later on.... hate the smell of grinding epoxy :P and since they are hidden, appearance is not an issue to me.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 09:56:17 PM by spitcrazy »
1973 CB500 FOUR - German Model.... Funky Tailight!

Offline camelman

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2010, 10:16:07 PM »
Pics for U. ;D..........Them yellow wires are purty!

Camelman, you are going to paint? Wow I never considered it cause no one sees them up under the tank. ;)

Not sure.  I was going to skip on it, but this conductivity question has me concerned now.  I'll check it with a circuit tester when I get home.  If it conducts, then I'll figure something out.  I like those yellow wires.  I wish I had added some color to my bike now.

I didn't notice the "spike" in there either.  I just had a little metal nub with a wire coming off it.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline spitcrazy

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2010, 07:43:46 AM »
Pics for U. ;D..........Them yellow wires are purty!

Camelman, you are going to paint? Wow I never considered it cause no one sees them up under the tank. ;)

Not sure.  I was going to skip on it, but this conductivity question has me concerned now.  I'll check it with a circuit tester when I get home.  If it conducts, then I'll figure something out.  I like those yellow wires.  I wish I had added some color to my bike now.

I didn't notice the "spike" in there either.  I just had a little metal nub with a wire coming off it.

Camelman

When you check your epoxy for conductivity, set your meter to "logic" setting. It is used to check computer chips and is very low voltage/amperage. My thinking is that if you go low and get nothing, you're probably OK... No?
1973 CB500 FOUR - German Model.... Funky Tailight!

Tham

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2010, 08:17:47 AM »
Hey...nice job!
Could you post up the model number of the Ngk resistor caps and which cylinders you were using the straight and angled?

My caps are very short and angle the wire way too close to the exhaust stubs.

Offline spitcrazy

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2010, 09:21:23 AM »
Hey...nice job!
Could you post up the model number of the Ngk resistor caps and which cylinders you were using the straight and angled?

My caps are very short and angle the wire way too close to the exhaust stubs.

Straight - cyl's 2 & 3- NGK SD05F  5Kohm
90 degree- cyl's 1 & 4- NGK XD05F 5Kohm

That's what was there when I bought it off the guy.

Please note that I have a 500 motor. I assume the engine block is the same on the 550. My angled boots point up away from the exhaust. they are no where near to touching. The staraights keep them away no problem either. Remember that wire jackets are silicone and wont melt easily, they make oven gloves and baking sheets out of the stuff. As long as they aren't touching there should never be a problem.
1973 CB500 FOUR - German Model.... Funky Tailight!

Offline camelman

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2010, 03:05:14 PM »
Not sure about the 500 and 550 being the same block.  I believe the 400F exhausts will fit the 500, but they will not fit the 550.  I don't know how that translates to the spark plugs though.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline spitcrazy

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Re: Accel wires in stock coils (CB550 F)
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2010, 04:19:25 PM »
looking at pictures, the two blocks look the same I also looked at manuals and they are the same castings. The pictures show the outside angled leads turned under the tank. Any how, if there's that much worry, can  you shorten your leads so they don't sag??

SEE PIC: http://electricwiringdiagram.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/honda-cb550-vintage-motorcycle-wiring-harness.jpg
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 04:21:09 PM by spitcrazy »
1973 CB500 FOUR - German Model.... Funky Tailight!