Topic: VIN/engine number question

[Scott S]

 When I bought my CB500 I was told by the P.O. that it was a '72. The bike had been parked for at least 28 years and he couldn't find the title at the time.
 Long story short, we have a title coming from the state DMV office (had to go back to the microfiche files to find it!) and it should be here in a week or so.
 
 Anyway, he says '72 but the VIN number starts with a 100 sequence: CB500-1044XXX. The engine number is CB500E-1044264. The last three numbers of the VIN and engine are different. What do these numbers tell me about my bike?

[Bob Wessner]

They are probably a 'matched' original set of frame and engine numbers. There's frequently a difference between the two and the amount of difference varies. I've never seen a truly matched set of frame and engine numbers. The difference you see is pretty normal.

[Scott S]

 But doesn't the 1000 series VIN indicate a '71? Maybe a late '71, hence the (possible) '72 designation?
 It doesn't really matter...the paperwork is good on the bike. I'm just curious. May help with parts search at a later date, too.

[Bob Wessner]

Maybe it's too early for me, or I need another cup of coffee  , but not sure I understand this reference; "But doesn't the 1000 series VIN"

[Bob Wessner]

OK, I took a look at the model guide (should have done this earlier, sorry) at http://www.sohc4.net/index.php?q=node/153. It appears this is the first year model based on the VIN. It also appears there is an overlap from the first year to the first few months of the following year before the next model was introduced. Add to the confusion that depending on where the bike was first titled, they may refer to the year it was sold rather than the year it was built.

[MCRider]

This was the issue that Honda got sued over. Bikes were being titled based on when they were sold, not when they were made. Consequently, someone thought they had the most recent model when in fact they had a holdover of the prior model.

[grumburg]

Do not know what state you are in, but Ohio titled as year sold, not manufactured, until late 1970s. My 1964 Vespa and 1964 Suzuki t10 are both titled as 1966s.

[Bob Wessner]

This was the issue that Honda got sued over. Bikes were being titled based on when they were sold, not when they were made. Consequently, someone thought they had the most recent model when in fact they had a holdover of the prior model.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of a lawsuit, but after some searching found another reference. Oddly enough, right here. 

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=14675.msg146197#msg146197

[MCRider]

This was the issue that Honda got sued over. Bikes were being titled based on when they were sold, not when they were made. Consequently, someone thought they had the most recent model when in fact they had a holdover of the prior model.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of a lawsuit, but after some searching found another reference. Oddly enough, right here. 

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=14675.msg146197#msg146197

I'm sure that's it. Not exactly how i remembered it, but more likely correct than my memory.  Bottom line there are still bikes floating around out there where the VIN number/model year expectation is not what the paperwork says.

[Bob Wessner]

It probably also means there are bikes that should have had warranty fixes made but didn't. 

[Don R]

I bought a 73 500 that was auctually a 72. My brother worked there and auctually asked if the bike was the latest model and not a left-over and we were assured it was the newest model. Later when I needed parts I learned it was a K2 because it had the smaller gauges. I did get money from the class action a couple years later.

[cb350twin]

My dad bought a 73 CB 350 twin K4  back in Early 73 needless to say it was a 72 CB 350 K4. Just found out it was a 72 a couple of years ago. Title says its a 73. He was also involved in the class action suit, got like only 80 bucks back or something.

[bryanj]

Now the real problem is that you have 3 different designations

(1) BUILD year when it was actualy put together

(2) MODEL year which normaly starts in August for the next year(time to ship etc)

(3) SOLD year which could be quite some time for a slow moving model

Now its perfectly legal to sell a bike that has been in storage for years in a crate as brand new AS LONG AS you dont pretend its just been built or is a newer MODEL year than it actualy is------at least thats how it is in UK

[mick7504]

From what I understand, The VIN (Frame number) is the gospel regardless of the engine number.
(I'm refering to 750's)
A lot of bikes that I have bought over the years, which have been majority K2 designation, have had K3 engines according to the engine number sequences.
This in Oz and I don't know if this had had anything to do with the export market back then and possibly an "overflow" from model to model.
This happens with passenger vehicles a lot, and is a PITA when it comes to identifying correct parts through model changes.
Mick