Topic: Black Barbie is not worth as much...

[traveler]

go back and read my post carefully......I said BLACK Jesus

~Joe

[mlinder]

There's plenty of evidence that a number of the tribes of Isreal were 'black'.

[traveler]

ok......you know what I am talking about....you are just trying to pretend you don't.

~Joe

[mlinder]

Hey, at least they aren't selling black jesus's at a discount.

Odd that Jesus belonged to the tribe of Judah, which started with his wife, a Canaanite.
That's just that side of the red sea, with land bordering Egypt (which is, really, part of Africa. I mean, it certainly isn't middle eastern....)

So maybe he was black? Or at least partly?


(Doubly odd is that the line of Judah started with a non-jewish woman, I think... not quite the way it worked ever after that. No jewish mom, not jewish.)

/edit: and yes, I'm being difficult.

[paulages]

ok......you know what I am talking about....you are just trying to pretend you don't.

~Joe

joe, i think you're trying to say that portraying jesus as black is some kind of politically correct thing? i think you're trying too hard, man. jesus certainly wasn't white and was possibly fairly dark skinned. If you were a black christian, you'd probably find it strange for jesus to be portrayed as a white man too. the fact that you imply that he should continue to be portrayed as white is a little weird, honestly.

reactionary politics are the absolute bottom of the barrel in my opinion, whether it's thoughtless "political correctness" or the people that automatically oppose anything those people say.

[seaweb11]

So was he real?   I thought he was just part of a kids story

[mlinder]

So was he real?   I thought he was just part of a kids story

Who, Barbie?

[paulages]

So was he real?   I thought he was just part of a kids story

i think you're confusing him with the easter bunny. similar, but less fuzzy and a zombie.

[greasy j]

They lost me with the invention of Black Jesus paintings a few years back.

~Joe

no more wacky than the dirty blonde, blue eyed jesus we always see with long hippie hair and beard.

almost certainly not correct.

he was jewish and a Roman citizen. not a viking barbarian.

and if you really care about social justice you won't be shopping at wal-mart in the 1st place. so who cares how they price their stupid plastic crap.

by the way have you guys seen this:
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

pretty horrid.

[greasy j]

Hey, at least they aren't selling black jesus's at a discount.

Odd that Jesus belonged to the tribe of Judah, which started with his wife, a Canaanite.
That's just that side of the red sea, with land bordering Egypt (which is, really, part of Africa. I mean, it certainly isn't middle eastern....)

So maybe he was black? Or at least partly?


(Doubly odd is that the line of Judah started with a non-jewish woman, I think... not quite the way it worked ever after that. No jewish mom, not jewish.)

/edit: and yes, I'm being difficult.

african and ethnically black are not the same thing. think of Egyptians. people like to simplify things, but race is subjective to a large degree and we are all African if you go back far enough. which does not mean black skinned. our visual diferences are mostly caused by standards of beauty in ethnic groups. these are very fluid and there are no hard lines. now that we are not seperated by mountains and valleys, deserts, etc. these differences will quickly disappear.

I am an Italian. we think of this as an ethnic type, but it did not exist less than a 1000 yrs ago. it developed out of a mix of different peoples. America will be a melting pot much the same and an American ethnicity will emerge in a short while. Vin Diesel and Tiger Woods are the forerunners. then the rest of the world. it doesn't matter if you disagree, you cannot control your children and their children...

anyways, it's not really worth arguing about, we are all human and we should try to see our commonalities instead of focusing on the trivial differences. I just wish we could look past these meaningless issues and deal with the serious world ending problems facing us. problems we think of as racial are usually cultural. race is a diversion, mostly illusion.

[mlinder]

Hey, at least they aren't selling black jesus's at a discount.

Odd that Jesus belonged to the tribe of Judah, which started with his wife, a Canaanite.
That's just that side of the red sea, with land bordering Egypt (which is, really, part of Africa. I mean, it certainly isn't middle eastern....)

So maybe he was black? Or at least partly?


(Doubly odd is that the line of Judah started with a non-jewish woman, I think... not quite the way it worked ever after that. No jewish mom, not jewish.)

/edit: and yes, I'm being difficult.

african and ethnically black are not the same thing. think of Egyptians. people like to simplify things, but race is subjective to a large degree and we are all African if you go back far enough. which does not mean black skinned. our visual diferences are mostly caused by standards of beauty in ethnic groups. these are very fluid and there are no hard lines. now that we are not seperated by mountains and valleys, deserts, etc. these differences will quickly disappear.

I am an Italian. we think of this as an ethnic type, but it did not exist less than a 1000 yrs ago. it developed out of a mix of different peoples. America will be a melting pot much the same and an American ethnicity will emerge in a short while. Vin Diesel and Tiger Woods are the forerunners. then the rest of the world. it doesn't matter if you disagree, you cannot control your children and their children...

anyways, it's not really worth arguing about, we are all human and we should try to see our commonalities instead of focusing on the trivial differences. I just wish we could look past these meaningless issues and deal with the serious world ending problems facing us. problems we think of as racial are usually cultural. race is a diversion, mostly illusion.

The people of Egypt had a lot more in common with the rest of africa 4000 years ago than they did with the middle easterners.
Ayway, no worth arguing abo.

[ev0lve]

Hey, at least they aren't selling black jesus's at a discount.

Odd that Jesus belonged to the tribe of Judah, which started with his wife, a Canaanite.
That's just that side of the red sea, with land bordering Egypt (which is, really, part of Africa. I mean, it certainly isn't middle eastern....)

So maybe he was black? Or at least partly?


(Doubly odd is that the line of Judah started with a non-jewish woman, I think... not quite the way it worked ever after that. No jewish mom, not jewish.)

/edit: and yes, I'm being difficult.

african and ethnically black are not the same thing. think of Egyptians. people like to simplify things, but race is subjective to a large degree and we are all African if you go back far enough. which does not mean black skinned. our visual diferences are mostly caused by standards of beauty in ethnic groups. these are very fluid and there are no hard lines. now that we are not seperated by mountains and valleys, deserts, etc. these differences will quickly disappear.

I am an Italian. we think of this as an ethnic type, but it did not exist less than a 1000 yrs ago. it developed out of a mix of different peoples. America will be a melting pot much the same and an American ethnicity will emerge in a short while. Vin Diesel and Tiger Woods are the forerunners. then the rest of the world. it doesn't matter if you disagree, you cannot control your children and their children...

anyways, it's not really worth arguing about, we are all human and we should try to see our commonalities instead of focusing on the trivial differences. I just wish we could look past these meaningless issues and deal with the serious world ending problems facing us. problems we think of as racial are usually cultural. race is a diversion, mostly illusion.

No one's going to quote Bulworth? OK. I'll do it.
"White people, black people, brown people, yellow people, get rid of 'em all/ All we need is a voluntary, free spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction/ Everybody just gotta keep #$%*in' everybody til they're all the same color "

[seaweb11]

 

[traveler]

I don't really spend much time worrying about the way he looked when he was here 2000 years ago....and yes he is real, and is still alive.

My mention is the attempt to try and create "black pride" in people, and the whole PC mess that seems to have overtaken every facet of our lives.  That and White Guilt over things that we didn't even do!  The majority of white people 150 years ago didn't have the money to own slaves.....yet we are told we are all guilty of "crimes"....gotta raise the BS flag on that one.

The "Black Barbie" is on clearance for one reason....no one was buying it!  People are getting their panties all in a wad over a common business practice!  If people would have been buying the product in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue.

I'm moving on......this topic is reaching stupid status in my eyes.

~Joe

[socalenduro]

im certainly not a bleeding heart (as my wife) or a liberal (as my friends)
but to say that its simply business is well...a little simplistic.
there are obviously racial undertones in WHY white barbie sells less than white barbie. maybe is social economics, maybe its subconcious reinforcement that white is better, but it is there.
should we fix it with affirmative action? no, but we should recognize its presence.

[Frankenkit]

actually there was a study that was done to that effect.  by Drs. Kenneth and Mamie Clark
I wasn't all that willing to post to this thread because I couldn't find the experiment or its results...
anyway, in the 40s, sociologists Ken and Mamie Clark asked black kids about two dolls, one white and one black.

The majority, something like 60%, said they'd rather play with the white doll. Most said the white doll was nicer than the black doll and even weirder, 40-some percent of the black kids said the white doll looked most like them.

so there's probably more to it on the social side of it, but I'm also pretty sure that on the business side it really is that there's less demand for the black barbie, hence its being on sale.

here's a link to the ABC thing, where the news can tell us what to think:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=7213714&page=1

[greasy j]

im certainly not a bleeding heart (as my wife) or a liberal (as my friends)
but to say that its simply business is well...a little simplistic.
there are obviously racial undertones in WHY white barbie sells less than white barbie. maybe is social economics, maybe its subconcious reinforcement that white is better, but it is there.
should we fix it with affirmative action? no, but we should recognize its presence.

it's funny how in America the terms 'bleeding heart' or 'do-gooder' are pejorative. like it's a bad thing to care about people. and it's funny how the so-called 'christians' are usually 'conservatives' who adhere to this idea. it is directly contrary to the spirit of jesus' message but that doesn't matter. no one cares about that, just using christianity to reinforce whatever ideals prop up our dog-eat-dog society. doesn't have to make sense. just have faith. not in the philosophy of jesus himself, but in your local pig-headed bigotted preacher. it all goes to reinforce the ideals that keep the rich on top and us at each others throats. cooperation is a sin. competition is the only way to progress and the weak get trampled underfoot. very christian, eh?

I have actually read the bible, I don't know any christians who have. it is basically impossible to call it infallible because it contradicts itself so much. critical thinking and an understanding of historical norms at the time are needed to understand what the book contains. but if someone wants to adhere to the philosophy of jesus christ they should be reading the message of the new testament. the old was added to give it weight. and it was all put together by a Roman council over 300 yrs after the death of christ. some left out, some added. most of the traditions and ceremonys are a hodge podge of other 'pagan' religions. silly term, pagan. anyways the important part, in my mind, is the message.

ignore the whole apocalyptic thing (jesus was convinced the world as we know it was about to end) and focus on his ideas on human interactions and social matters. it was a revolutionary message at the time. xenophobia is a social ill, treat others as you would be treated, regardless of social class, race, sex, etc. if he was alive today he would not fit in well with his modern American followers. pro war, pro death penalty, against social programs which alleviate the suffering of the poor. by the way he died from state sanctioned death penalty. that cross you're wearing is the ancient electric chair.

I'm not saying all this to rile people up but hopefully to get you to think critically instead of associatively. and leave out all the hateful junk. I am not one to follow any one philosophy. but the christian ethic is a foundational part of my own philosophy. try to see the positive core and ignore that which obscures it. try to see the big picture, there is so much that unifies us. we all want the same thing deep down.

joe, a lot of this is aimed at you. don't get pissed or take it personal. just think on it awhile. don't react. think.

[Caaveman82]

Everyone was dark skinned back Jesus' day. "Europeans" were the first to become "white". Even then, they were still pretty dark skinned. I wonder why in a religion that mostly "whites" practice that Jesus would be portrayed as white? Hmmm.

The black barbie thing is stupid. I only posted it in the first place because I know some where someone is getting ready to file a suit of some kind. When I go to Target, the barbie dolls are all mixed in together, my kid doesn't care the color she just picks one out. I just thought it was slightly funny that not only were they segregated, but they costed less. I don't think it is funny because I think racial segregation was funny but because not only was it that great opressor of the working class, Wal Mart, but a Wal Mart in the south, Lousiana as a matter of fact, a place where almost no black people live any more, and in my opinion that is no accident.

[HavocTurbo]

I find it interesting you consider yourself Italian, yet not from one particular "race".

I myself am the first generation born here in my family. Whom are from Italy or Sicily.

And while I am considered "white" as all europeans are.... I consider myself a Sicilian first and foremost, then an American.

I can speak a language other than english, yet choose to never use it unless spoken to in that language first.

Your ideas on who jesus was, is, and should be are one sided. You assume he was a real person, not just a made up fairy tale told to children and impressionable adults.

Are you not, nor have ever been catholic? Then looked outside that avenue of religion?

Believe what you want.... you'll get no argument from me. That's what I find great about this country. Yet it seems we focus too much on where we came from, not how we got where we are. Whether that's good or bad.

[greasy j]

I find it interesting you consider yourself Italian, yet not from one particular "race".

I myself am the first generation born here in my family. Whom are from Italy or Sicily.

And while I am considered "white" as all europeans are.... I consider myself a Sicilian first and foremost, then an American.

I can speak a language other than english, yet choose to never use it unless spoken to in that language first.

Your ideas on who jesus was, is, and should be are one sided. You assume he was a real person, not just a made up fairy tale told to children and impressionable adults.

Are you not, nor have ever been catholic? Then looked outside that avenue of religion?

Believe what you want.... you'll get no argument from me. That's what I find great about this country. Yet it seems we focus too much on where we came from, not how we got where we are. Whether that's good or bad.

I agree with your last statement. more or less.

I was just using italian as an example. I don't consider myself anything but human. no one really knows their genealogy because a lot of times the father isn't the father. my whole point was it's not really important. and these lines we draw are not reality. race, ethnicity is much more fluid than what we think of. you need a sense of history to grasp this.

I wouldn't label myself as christian or anything else, I thought that was clear. they kicked me out of catechism for thinking too much.

I think religion/mysticism is superstitious nonsense. faith is another way of saying 'shut off the logical part of your brain, ignore apparent truths and do what you're told'. i was talking about the  philosophy of Jesus. who was most certainly a real person. as was someone like Gilgamesh. who became a mythic figure, but was most definitely a real man at some point.

the main point I mean to make is that we are all human and our differences are trivial. and the other point is that most christians are not adhering to the message of christ.

aside from that;

there is nothing wrong with argumentation in the sense of a cooperative exchange which seeks to enlighten all parties concerned, but for this to happen you have to be willing to be swayed as well as to sway. I never 'believe' anything. all of my opinions or ideas are just that, and as I learn more and experience more I can get a better grasp on the big picture.

as soon as someone 'believes' something or adheres themselves to some doctrine or another they have stopped their own growth. turned off the brain. I think we need to always be willing to learn or experience each others viewpoints. I want to know what others think and why, but I prefer it if they came to their conclusions based on their own analysis of matters. ideologies are stumbling blocks in this sense. and will get us nowhere.

[Old75_ratafe]

I personally prefer the buddy christ when I think of Jesus, Catholicism wow did wonders... Besides we all know it was all just one big mistake... Just look at the documentary.."The life of Brian" (python anyone?)

[greasy j]

ok, back to sickles. I over analyze everything so it's hard to stop once I get going. but I'm gonna leave this one alone, now.

one last thing though. Barbie, whether black or white is freakishly inhuman looking. if you saw a girl on the street with her proportions you would think she was a bizarre mutation. so it can't be that great for little girls' self images. it's bad enough they put little kids in makeup. creepy. and all the beauty mags...

[Old75_ratafe]

ok, back to sickles. I over analyze everything so it's hard to stop once I get going. but I'm gonna leave this one alone, now.

one last thing though. Barbie, whether black or white is freakishly inhuman looking. if you saw a girl on the street with her proportions you would think she was a bizarre mutation. so it can't be that great for little girls' self images. it's bad enough they put little kids in makeup. creepy. and all the beauty mags...

Never watched a european model show have ya....  truely sickening.  Why would anyone want a girl that looks like if you touch her she might break a bone.

[Frankenkit]

rawr, baby.

...this girl and her sister have actually died from anorexia complications...

[BlindJoe]

this is the #$%* that freaks me out the most

wtf people