Topic: Protect my newly painted caliper?

[csendker]

I'm rebuilding my front brake, so while waiting for a new piston I cleaned up and repainted the caliper.  I used 1200-degree aluminum barbeque-grille paint (nothing but the best...).  I just left it on the bench and gave it a thin coat a couple times a day.  I think I ended up putting about 50 coats on.  Looks great now, but the first drop of brake fluid and it's toast.  Is there anything I can spray over the paint that will protect it from the brake fluid?

[lrutt]

I converted my 750 to DOT 5 over 10 years ago. Not a problem since. I got tired of getting the crud buildup you get with DOT 3 in these humid climates.

DOT 5 doesn't eat paint. If you rinse out your MC and brake lines well you'll be set. I used the DOT 5 to flush out everything. Of couse when I did it I rebuilt the MC but did not have to rebuild the caliper.

Just my .02

[eurban]

Looks like Lrutt beat me to the punch with his suggestion (while I was writing mine) but just to reaffirm- Don't know how far you are going in your brake rebuild process but for my complete rebuild I switched to Dot 5 fluid which does not harm paint.  I rebuilt the master cylinder and replaced the hoses with braided ones.  Basically it was all new clean parts.  From what I understand this is pretty important as mixing the Dot 5 with other types of fluid is bad news. You could try baking your caliper a bit before rebuilding  as that should help fully harden and cure your paint.  Dot 3/4 Brake fluid will still probably eat at it though but if you soap it down after the initial bleeding process it might be ok for a while.

[jtb]

Chris,  I did the same thing 2 years ago, when I rebuilt the brakes on my 750F2.  No problems with the DOT5.

John

[csendker]

I wasn't planning on a master cylinder rebuild just yet.  My only issue is a slightly dragging brake - the MC look nice & clean, good brake pressure, poked out the tiny hole inside (was already clean), etc. 

Is DOT-5 a straight drop in, or do I have to do the full rebuild?  Is there any compatibility issues with the guts (caliper or MC)?  Can you simply flush with DOT-5 to clear out all of the old #3 then refill & bleed away?

Thanks.

[jtb]

I rebuilt the mc too, but it needed it.  I believe that you can just flush the system with DOT5 and bleed.

[brockj]

Ok, so if I am understanding, it sounds like you just need to flush the system to convert to DOT5?  Can anyone confirm this?  I am in the process of rebuilding the front brakes now and if this is the case, then sweet!!

[bwaller]

Man I hate to be the old poop on this one! I'm surprised that people have used for years without problems because I did. Several years ago I switched to DOT5 and I'm not sure if it absorbs more moisture or doesn't lubricate as well but had more nagging problems with the piston not retracting as well. I had replaced the seal & piston at the same time so there were no other issues. After two years switched back to DOT4. I know there is the paint issue, but you can wash the fluid off. Go ahead & try it and see how you make out, but the two fluids are not compatible so like the guys said flush the original fluid.

[dusterdude]

dot 5.dot 5.dot 5!!!!!

[lrutt]

No incompatibilities with Dot 5. Just flush a lot through and you'll be golden. You already have the caliper apart. It's easy to flush it through the master so your over half way there.

Like i said, I've had it in at least 5 different older Jap bikes for 10 years with no problems on any of them. Go for it.

[Zane]

Hi, last week I did the same thing as you describe - disassembled my front brake.  I had the same questions about paint too as I also painted my caliper.  I used the bake on VHT (PJ-1) caliper paint and the thing looks pro, but is still certainly chipable - as I've found out.  Regardless, since I had it apart anyway I did a little looking around and found this  http://shotimes.com/brakes/part5.html    After reading this I put in Dot 5 (even though the writer himself says it's too much trouble to do right - I figured that most of the work was already done just by me already having the system apart).  I don't have the experience of a lot of the others here, but I sure like having fluid (that seems to work extremely well) in my system that I don't have to treat like it's bloody radioactive or something.  I hated that carcinogenic 3 and 4 stuff and until I find good reason to change back to it I don't think I will.  Plus the old stuff looked like mucous and the silicone (that I bought anyway) has a really nice colour that reminds me of the late sixties .... :-)

Here's a short quote from the above site link....


To get the maximum benefit from silicone, the entire brake system MUST be flushed of old glycol fluid. A brake system cannot be completely flushed using the bleeder fittings, as they are purposely at spots in the system to allow air to be bled, you simply can't get all the old fluid out by bleeding. The best way to completely flush a brake system is to dismantle and overhaul it, cleaning everything with alcohol, and then coating all the parts with the new fluid as they are re-assembled. Going to this much hassle just doesn't justify changing to silicone, IMHO.

[rob]

Hello,

This is a very interesting thread, as I am in the middle of a complete front brake rebuild myself. I am curious, in the article at http://shotimes.com/brakes/part5.html, he says that the sylicone based DOT-5 fluids will swell rubber.  Does this mean one needs to replace the standard rubber brake hoses?  They are the only rubber parts I can think of that are in contact with the brake fluid.

Now that I have heard of you guys painting your brake calipers, I am thinking of doing that.  Anyone have any pics?

Thanks,

Rob

[lrutt]

Hello,

This is a very interesting thread, as I am in the middle of a complete front brake rebuild myself. I am curious, in the article at http://shotimes.com/brakes/part5.html, he says that the sylicone based DOT-5 fluids will swell rubber.  Does this mean one needs to replace the standard rubber brake hoses?  They are the only rubber parts I can think of that are in contact with the brake fluid.

Now that I have heard of you guys painting your brake calipers, I am thinking of doing that.  Anyone have any pics?

Thanks,

Rob

Well, I've not had a problem in 10 years and I'm still on the ORIGINAL rubber brake lines etc.

[csendker]

It appears that front brake rebuilding is a major winter sport.

So is the consensus that the system can be adequately flushed with only the caliper apart (off), or do I need to attack the MC?  Any tricks to getting it all flushed, or just keep sending the DOT-5 through?

And I'll post some pics tonight when I get home.

[Zane]

I just washed everything completely with alcohol.  Then, like the article says, I used a few dabs of the Dot 5 fluid itself as a lubricant when I put it all back together.  Seems to have worked well enough - the whole brake works (and certainly feels) better than ever.  (It's hard to tell why though, because I also changed to a new, less expandable type line as well as drilling out the disc.) In all honesty, the brake worked pretty well before I made the changes too - and my bike is quite a bit lighter than the bigger bikes all you chaps are discussing.

I was happy to read about the washing with alcohol bit, since it's pretty inexpensive compared to the brake fluid itself.  I used the same stuff I used at parties when I was younger - cheap gin.*

I'm off to work now, but when I get back I'll try and find a minute or two to snap some shots.  One thing I can say though, is that the VHT caliper paint goes on beautifully, and looks pretty slick (at least in the gloss black I used).  It looked okay before baking, but sticking the stuff in the oven for an hour really made it look like a powder coat, professional finish.  I liked it so well I actually used it on a few other gloss black bits on the motorcycle which have nothing to do with the brake.

Best regards,

*Just kidding!  I used buck a bottle drug store stuff.

[Clyde]

Just to add another view in favour of DOT-5.
I have used it in my Z1 (which has an identical MC to the Honda CB750) for a year and my F1 for several years. I have friends who have used it in Honda SOHC's and Suzuki GT750's for four or more years.
My K0 and K2 use DOT 4.
It appears to me that DOT 5 DOES not swell the rubber seals, but DOT3/4 does. I have experimented with old seals which do not seal due to shrinkage and when I have soaked them in DOT 3/4 they expand back and seal. This does not happen with DOT 5.
With both bikes where I have used DOT 5 I have replaced the seals in the MC and caliper, but I have a friend who has just flushed the system with DOT 5 and has been using the bike for three years without any problems
The only thing different that I have noticed is that DOT 5 does not flow as easily as DOT 3/4 and takes a little longer to bleed.

I have used 08 Brembo calipers on a few race bikes and Brembo have a warning in their package that DOT 5 should not be used, yet Harley use it (if that is a recommendation?)
BTW I tried to coat calipers with all different types of paint (with baking etc) as well as powder cating, but DOT 3/4 is a great if slow paint stripper.
Regds Clyde

[csendker]

And here's a pic.  Lots of coats of 1200 deg Krylon barbeque paint.  Looks good now, we'll see how it holds up over time.  I may try to bake it some and see if that helps - the instructions say it will 'smoke' a bit when first heated up.  I'm assuming this is some sort of curing process that I may be able to hasted in an oven; something that can't normally be done with a grille.

[mgilvary]

Winter is indeed brake rebuild time. I'm getting ready to convert my 550 to dual-disc. But I have a question about what brake fluid to use, so I'll piggy back it onto this thread.

In my stock system, I use DOT 3. But I bought a new Nissin MC to handle the increased fluid movement for two calipers, and the instructions say to only use DOT 4. Now, reading through this thread, I'm thinking I'd really like to use DOT 5.

Could this damage or impede the performance of the Nissin MC? It makes me nervous to ignore the label on the reservoir that says to only use DOT 4. And if I decided to use DOT 4, would that be acceptable insofar as the stock calipers are concerned?

So many questions.

[dusterdude]

my thoughts on this are,dot 3 and dot 4 are interchangeable,in my experience dot 5 can be used in dot 3/4 applications as long as the dot 3/4 is properly cleaned from the system.

[heffay]

someone mentioned soap and water... i agree with that but, a better tool would be brake cleaner (sprayed on a clean soft cloth) not sprayed directly on the paint.  just use this to get any residue off the paint... it evaporates so quickly it won't damage your paint (if used sparingly like i said)... I just don't think soap and water can completely remove brake fluid

zane~ i'd say the reason why your brakes work better is... TLC 

SOHC's love TLC

[BobbyR]

I had my caliper rebuilt 5 years ago. The rebuilder removed the paint and returned it to me unpainted with the advice of not painting it. Well it looks more natural around all the Aluminium parts.  It has no white corrosion only went a bit darker gray. It may be another alloy, but I would not paint mine on a bet. I am refreshing the bike so I will be going after the cases with some jewelers rouge, i will give it a quick shot with the wheel and be done with it. No worries about brake fluid.

[Zane]

SOHC's love TLC

Yeah, they do, don't they?  Seems to me that quality these bikes have is one of their most endearing features, I'm learning.

And BR, you contributed this to a topic I started that never really got off the ground re: using gun finishing specialty paint on motorcycles.  I'm sorry I never responded, but I actually took the suggestion (for a while, anyway).  Although I did end up painting the caliper (finally) I did make a significant pause at the bare metal stage.  I sandblasted both parts, and then, after reading your earlier post, I sanded them and finished with a mean shine on the unit. 

What I liked the best, and which you can see a little in the photo was the insides of the long depressions in the smaller of the two parts.  I sandblasted the whole thing but when I sanded it I used a block of balsa wood as a sanding block, finished the thing finely, but didn't sand the bottom of those grooves (heat dissippation groves?).  It looked great - the unfinished sandblast put the rest of the piece into a kind of relief, and it looked like an expensive Deco piece from the thirties. Retro Retro, or something like that.

When I put it back on the bike though, just to see what it looked like, it was all just a bit too shiney down there.  I try and keep my fork bottoms well shined, and with the chrome spokes and rim and the shiney stainless (now hole - y) rotor, I just felt it was a bit busy overall.  But it was pretty cool - I could see maybe trying it again in the future - either on this bike or another one.  Thanks again for the input.

(Another reason I opted for paint was I think it might be easier to keep up than the bare aluminum [alloy?]).

Finally, I didn't post a pic of the finished black caliper.  However, when I looed on earlier during the week and saw csendker's shot, I had an Alzheimer's moment when I honestly couldn't remember posting a picture of my caliper.  That's how similar mine looks.....

[Terry in Australia]

Well I restored a little CB350F in 1997, and being concerned about the paint stripping qualities of dot 3/4 brake fluid, I used dot 5 silicone instead, and it still ate my paint.

Silicone will cause new paint to bubble, as it blocks the paints "pores", particularly acrylic laquers. That's why you should never use a silicone polish, or even detergent containing silicone on fresh paint.

  If you're going to use Dot 5, make sure that your paint is preferably an epoxy enamel, and has cured for a couple of weeks, or has been "baked".

Personally, I'd rather have my MC and caliper/s powdercoated, it'll withstand any sort of brake fluid, and the finish will last much longer than paint ever will. Cheers, Terry.

[Hockers Choppers]

I took my mc and caliper all apart and cleaned that crap out of them with tons of brake cleaner, bead blasted and painted with black base coat with no clear ( seal of the inners first ), put back together with dot 5 bled and rode it home from work 3 hours later. spilt fluid on caliper and it just shines it, not eat off paint. Never use dot 3/4 again. Brakes work perfect. Dot 5 doesn't attract moisture so you shouldn't get the corrosion inside the system. Also has a higher boiling point.

[kghost]

Just to add my two cents.....

DOT 5 does not swell seals as someone earlier said. Some people have experienced problems because of this due to leaks.

Thats never a problem with new seals but old dried out seals? Well the stuff leaks on by.

Thats because its basically silicon and hey that stuff is slippery

I use DOT 5 in the black bike and it works just fine.

Doesn't eat paint Terry. Can ya think of anything you would wanna spill on fresh paint?