Topic: Apparently Phil Hare doesn't care about the Constitution.

[BeSeeingYou]

So let have a show of hands...

How many here reading this thread in this forum have had their taxes increased? You all just filed, or are in the process of filing. So how many?

I will go further.

How many have had a tax increase without having an increase in declared income?

That is how the question should be asked.

My federal taxes have been staying the same or decreasing for the last several years with a steady income.  Local taxes have increased over that same time.

[tramp]

he knows he screwed up when he said that
too late to pull it back
really bad time to make a mistake like that

[BeSeeingYou]

With all the talk of commies how about a little something from Bob Dylan.

Talkin John Birch Paranoid Blues

Well, I was feelin' sad and feelin' blue,
I didn't know what in the world I was gonna do,
Them Communists they wus comin' around,
They wus in the air,
They wus on the ground.
They wouldn't gimme no peace. . .

So I run down most hurriedly
And joined up with the John Birch Society,
I got me a secret membership card
And started off a-walkin' down the road.
Yee-hoo, I'm a real John Bircher now!
Look out you Commies!

Now we all agree with Hitlers' views,
Although he killed six million Jews.
It don't matter too much that he was a Fascist,
At least you can't say he was a Communist!
That's to say like if you got a cold you take a shot of malaria.

Well, I wus lookin' everywhere for them gol-darned Reds.
I got up in the mornin' 'n' looked under my bed,
Looked in the sink, behind the door,
Looked in the glove compartment of my car.
Couldn't find 'em . . .

I wus lookin' high an' low for them Reds everywhere,
I wus lookin' in the sink an' underneath the chair.
I looked way up my chimney hole,
I even looked deep inside my toilet bowl.
They got away . . .

Well, I wus sittin' home alone an' started to sweat,
Figured they wus in my T.V. set.
Peeked behind the picture frame,
Got a shock from my feet, hittin' right up in the brain.
Them Reds caused it!
I know they did . . . them hard-core ones.

Well, I quit my job so I could work alone,
Then I changed my name to Sherlock Holmes.
Followed some clues from my detective bag
And discovered they wus red stripes on the American flag!
That ol' Betty Ross . . .

Well, I investigated all the books in the library,
Ninety percent of 'em gotta be burned away.
I investigated all the people that I knowed,
Ninety-eight percent of them gotta go.
The other two percent are fellow Birchers . . . just like me.

Now Eisenhower, he's a Russian spy,
Lincoln, Jefferson and that Roosevelt guy.
To my knowledge there's just one man
That's really a true American: George Lincoln Rockwell.
I know for a fact he hates Commies cus he picketed the movie Exodus.

Well, I fin'ly started thinkin' straight
When I run outa things to investigate.
Couldn't imagine doin' anything else,
So now I'm sittin' home investigatin' myself!
Hope I don't find out anything . . . hmm, great God!

[Rocking-M]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That is what said in the Declaration of Independence...

And in the Constitution's Preamble it says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I really hate it when people get it all wrong, or better yet, modify or quote out of context for their own purpose.

I don't know how we could read this and deny, if we remain a union of States, that the General Government has a duty
to promote the general welfare of all citizens of this union. Certainly a part of that general welfare includes health care.
If it is clear that many are neglected by the current health care system, not only neglected but denied health care.
To be true to the constitution they have sworn to uphold those in office must realize something must be done to insure the general welfare of the citizens of this union is succored. If however, the general government can not promote the general welfare of it's citizens then again I say perhaps it is time to dissolve the union.

That should have been the response of Phil Hare to the sawed off little runt. (Yea, I'm sure he was a sawed off runt, I could tell
by his squeaky voice.)

[Rocking-M]

SRust, the lyrics you posted don't exactly match the original but he points the same I think. 

[Industrial Cafe]

I'm bored... I didn't mean to start a political thread, they give me that "eyes glazed over" look.
  I just wanted to post something that would allow me to squeeze in something funny that I thought up.

the world has gotten too big, there's too much going on and we need to elect a president who will fund covert research into the reanimation of dead tissue.

then after a few years we could have political threads about equal rights for Zays and zombie marriage.

[Caaveman82]

...I don't like this new health care bill they are trying to push, it's not in the constitution...

Roads, schools, and police are not in the constitution, but you don't argue about those do you?

No I don't becuase the police protect you and the school's help our kids get a better education so they can be productive in life. I try to teach my kids respect and how to be a hard worker, I am not the high school graduate, i missed getting it by 5 freaking points. As far as the roads are concerned sometimes they need to just leave alone, I lived in Orlando for 21 years and they kept raising tolls to "improve the roads " guss what the roads still suck in orlando, was just there last week on family emergency, they didn't improve them they got worse.so sometimes they should just leave well enough alone.I live in a country town so roads don't make much of a diffrence to me dirt gravel or rocks is fine with me. Just gotta learn how to drive better on them. I just don't like the health care bill, I feel this govt is going communist on us, watch the news or cspan. look who they have in office it should tell you.

My point exactly. You would never say down with the fire department and down with the police because there is the potential that you will need their help some day. The health care bill on the other hand... oh no. Not to mention what you think is communist, I wont even get into that. You go have a nice long sit down with an old school Russian, you will see that what our government is up to does not even resemble communism.Did you know it is also against the law to have sex with a fish? EFF THAT! I don't want my government telling me which species I can and cannot have relations with. 

I am not attacking you but the argument seems counter productive. Also what do you mean by "watch the news or cspan. look who they have in office it should tell you." Tell me what? About whom?

[BeSeeingYou]

SRust, the lyrics you posted don't exactly match the original but he points the same I think.  

That got me to thinking and from what I remember the song was supposed to be on the Free Wheelin album in 63 but was left off because the record company was afraid of a libel lawsuit. Any live recordings from that time may have altered lyrics.  Here is the original left off the album that matches the posted lyrics.  Should have just posted this in the first place.  D-oh.

[HondaLover77]

I am not attacking you but the argument seems counter productive. Also what do you mean by "watch the news or cspan. look who they have in office it should tell you." Tell me what? About whom?

It sure seems like you are. anyway When I was down in fla. I stayed at my father in laws house whom btw is always up to date on the politicis and stuff. We were watching a show that is on regularly cant remeber the name and if u look at who he has on his staff, most of them are communist. And guess what if you not been listening, he wants to raise up his own army, hmmm sounds alot like hitler to me. I know the UNITED STATES HAS IT OWN ARMY BUT OBAMA WANT HIS OWN ARMY. LET SAYT HAT AGAIN HIS OWN ARMY not for the united states but an army for HIM. I may seem like a stupid redneck to u who is not very bright but, u have me all wrong. I watch the news I watch C-span, I try to keep up with stuff like this, it affects EVERYONE! Everyone has their own point of view so lets just leave this at that, I don't want to start a p8SS8NG match with anyone. you have your rights to your opion and i have a right to mine and btw I did not say anything degratory aginst you. so why the remark about me it sure sounded like you trying to make me out to be stuid. My appologies if that is now how u ment it but, that is the way i percived it. watch your worrding next time. ok Leaving this here this was my opion and it was based on what i see on the news and what i see on c-span, Oh one last thing, if the gentalmen was not telling truth about his staff why does oboma want to shut him down? Can u tell me that. obviously i have no clue to some of u.

[jaknight]

And in the Constitution's Preamble it says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I really hate it when people get it all wrong, or better yet, modify or quote out of context for their own purpose.

"I really hate it when people get it all wrong, or better yet, modify or quote out of context for their own purpose."

I don't understand.... you just did that yourself.

The founding fathers use of the word welfare was not in the sense of today's politician's use of the word welfare.  In the sense that you are thinking of welfare, the founding fathers and people of the time would gather amongst themselves and give their own personal clothing and foods to the people who were in need.  They did not expect the government to provide in the sense you are thinking.

If you want to take such a literal translation by today's use of words, please take a look at Article IV, Section. 4:

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government......

Does this mean the Republican Party of today?

Of course not.

If the founding fathers made it so open to such readings, well,to Insure Domestic Tranquility...... Why can't we all just be given Quaaludes?

  ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[Retro Rocket]

I am not attacking you but the argument seems counter productive. Also what do you mean by "watch the news or cspan. look who they have in office it should tell you." Tell me what? About whom?

It sure seems like you are. anyway When I was down in fla. I stayed at my father in laws house whom btw is always up to date on the politicis and stuff. We were watching a show that is on regularly cant remeber the name and if u look at who he has on his staff, most of them are communist. And guess what if you not been listening, he wants to raise up his own army, hmmm sounds alot like hitler to me. I know the UNITED STATES HAS IT OWN ARMY BUT OBAMA WANT HIS OWN ARMY. LET SAYT HAT AGAIN HIS OWN ARMY not for the united states but an army for HIM. I may seem like a stupid redneck to u who is not very bright but, u have me all wrong. I watch the news I watch C-span, I try to keep up with stuff like this, it affects EVERYONE! Everyone has their own point of view so lets just leave this at that, I don't want to start a p8SS8NG match with anyone. you have your rights to your opion and i have a right to mine and btw I did not say anything degratory aginst you. so why the remark about me it sure sounded like you trying to make me out to be stuid. My appologies if that is now how u ment it but, that is the way i percived it. watch your worrding next time. ok Leaving this here this was my opion and it was based on what i see on the news and what i see on c-span, Oh one last thing, if the gentalmen was not telling truth about his staff why does oboma want to shut him down? Can u tell me that. obviously i have no clue to some of u.

Surely you can't be serious.....

Mick

[HondaLover77]

Mick that is what I saw and And u know what this new president scares me to no end. With all the controversey about him and everything and his personal agenda of this health care bill, well It just don't seem like something is not right. I said I based my opinion on what I saw and hear on the news and c-span, I am not saying I am right, I maybe wrong and lets pray for everyone I am wrong. Like I said everyone has thier own aopion and naturally they have a right to thier own like u and as well me.

[333]

Stop watching Fox news.  And use spell check.  Two things that make people look smarter.

[joehardy]

http://factcheck.org/2010/04/obamas-private-army/

[jaknight]

SD750F

I am sorry, I did not mean to sound harsh in my posting that is quoting you.

The simplest statement should be that the preamble to the Constitution is simply just that..... a preamble.  An explanation or justification of the why of what follows the preamble is being written.

The defining laws are what follows the preamble, i.e., The Articles and their subsections.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[Caaveman82]

It sure seems like you are. anyway When I was down in fla. I stayed at my father in laws house whom btw is always up to date on the politicis and stuff. We were watching a show that is on regularly cant remeber the name and if u look at who he has on his staff, most of them are communist. And guess what if you not been listening, he wants to raise up his own army, hmmm sounds alot like hitler to me. I know the UNITED STATES HAS IT OWN ARMY BUT OBAMA WANT HIS OWN ARMY. LET SAYT HAT AGAIN HIS OWN ARMY not for the united states but an army for HIM. I may seem like a stupid redneck to u who is not very bright but, u have me all wrong. I watch the news I watch C-span, I try to keep up with stuff like this, it affects EVERYONE! Everyone has their own point of view so lets just leave this at that, I don't want to start a p8SS8NG match with anyone. you have your rights to your opion and i have a right to mine and btw I did not say anything degratory aginst you. so why the remark about me it sure sounded like you trying to make me out to be stuid. My appologies if that is now how u ment it but, that is the way i percived it. watch your worrding next time. ok Leaving this here this was my opion and it was based on what i see on the news and what i see on c-span, Oh one last thing, if the gentalmen was not telling truth about his staff why does oboma want to shut him down? Can u tell me that. obviously i have no clue to some of u.

No offence ma'am but do you know what you sound like?

[SD750F]

SD750F

I am sorry, I did not mean to sound harsh in my posting that is quoting you.

The simplest statement should be that the preamble to the Constitution is simply just that..... a preamble.  An explanation or justification of the why of what follows the preamble is being written.

The defining laws are what follows the preamble, i.e., The Articles and their subsections.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

No problem at all. This thread is quite civil compared to a couple other political based threads.

But here is the definition of Preamble:

pre·am·ble
   /ˈpriˌæmbəl, priˈæm-/ Show Spelled[pree-am-buhl, pree-am-] Show IPA
–noun
1. an introductory statement; preface; introduction.
2. the introductory part of a statute, deed, or the like, stating the reasons and intent of what follows.
3. a preliminary or introductory fact or circumstance: His childhood in the slums was a preamble to a life of crime.
4. ( initial capital letter ) the introductory statement of the U.S. Constitution, setting forth the general principles of American government and beginning with the words, “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. …”

So maybe for all the Constitutionalists out there, an amendment should be drafted to explore and define what welfare and life mean. Oh no, I can hear it now. All the pro life people would try to control that one...

[333]

So maybe for all the Constitutionalists out there, an amendment should be drafted to explore and define what welfare and life mean. Oh no, I can hear it now. All the pro life people would try to control that one...

You are so wrong there.  Both sides would be very UNcivil, and jump on that so hard.  It also sounds like finding out what the definition of "is" is.

[HondaLover77]

CAV I have not done or said anything outta the way to  about you or your intelligence, U stepped over the line, u don't know me from adam. I am not a dumb arsh hillbilly like u predict to me to be. I said we all have our aopinions and that we should have left it at that, and now u attack me, I am sorry but I am leaving it at that, I am getting tired of being attacked and singled out by you for my opinion on the health care issuse and what is going on today, YOU HAVE YOURS AND I HAVE MINE PLEASE LEAVE IT AT THAT WITHOUT THE ATTACK ON ME, I NEVER ATTACKED YOU!

[Industrial Cafe]

what if it all turns out to be true?

[BeSeeingYou]

Can't tell if she is serious or just yanking our chain.  If the former the song says it all and if the latter she has a good sense of humor.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Hey, just like good ol' GW used to say, "The constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper!"

I'm sure most of the politicians in DC feel the same way and could give two #$%*s less about it as long as the gravy train keeps it's biscuit wheels intact. 

[BeSeeingYou]

what if it all turns out to be true?

Then I'll see ya in the breadline, comrade.

[Industrial Cafe]

Da.

[BeSeeingYou]

Da.

If the old Soviet Union is anything to go by at least there will be plenty of vodka.