Topic: The Great Rock n Roll Swindle...

[Skonnie Boy]

You gotta hand it to him, he was a smart opportunist with a finger on the pulse of what was happening in England at the time.  That said, I think much better punk was made by successive groups in LA, NYC and such.

Maybe his greatest achievement comes from having fanned a flame he neither controlled or understood.

And hey.  After punk, there was Gang of Four, Pere Ubu, post-punk, Touch & Go, blah blah.  The list goes on. 

[greasy j]

I guess I have an opposite take on it.  To me the Sex Pistols, Clash, Ramones, Patti Smith, Voidiods, Suicide Commandos, etc were the real punk music.  The fact that the Sex Pistols burst on the scene mocking and rejecting mainstream rock and roll and then imploded after a few short years was the point. To me punk was dead by around 1979 when it went mainstream and that goes for the hardcore punk that emerged around that time.  That style has changed little from 1981 to 1991 to 2001 to now.  The hardcore stuff I heard in 1981 is no different than the stuff out now.  It's mainstream even if not commercially successful.  It's just another genre of rock and roll now, nothing new or groundbreaking.  I saw many of the early bands from 1975-78 and it left the rest of the music world scratching their heads.  I still liked much of the music that grew out of it like Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, The Cure, Gang of Four, etc but I would not call that punk.  Can't leave without mentioning John Cale, Lou Reed, The Velvet Underground, and Iggy and the Stooges.
I guess some of us saw it at different times and perspectives so we all have a different take on it so I am not trying to argue.  

I don't think you've actually heard any modern hardcore. no offense, but Tragedy sounds nothing like Minor Threat or 7 seconds. and you're right it's just what gen you're from. but the hardcore scene that I grew up with has evolved a lot and is still very strong. you're in Minn, right. ever hear of profane existence? mag and record label. lots of bands from out there still playing lots of shows. and there is a kind of a punk rock bermuda triangle. with seattle, oakland and minneapolis. lots of give and take from those places, with olympia and portland and other places being thrown in.

to me the scene I grew up with was influenced musically by sex pistols, clash, etc. but they created something new in the ethic of it. completely ignoring the mainstream instead of being a short fad within it. and the structure that they built has been added to and keeps growing all without the help of anything outside of it. and it is worlwide, now. I can find a place to stay at a punk house for free and have friends, bands to see, etc. in almost any country in the world. even undeveloped countries. and the people in the bands, fans, etc. are all on the same level. no star worship bull#$%*.

most people who say punk is dead, say that because to them it is. you have to be part of it to be aware of it.

[greasy j]

and you're right for the most part about the fact that most bands sound like most others in their genre, but that is true of any style. and there are bands out there that push the envelope. 'rites of spring' and 'nation of ulysses' 20 yrs ago, 10 yrs ago it was 'refused' or 'dillinger escape plan'. now there are bands like 'anaal nakrath' and 'Please Inform The Captain This Is A Hijack!' and lots others that are breaking new ground.

it's a lot broader than you might think

[Operator]

Growing up heavily involved in skateboarding, a lot of the late 70's punk became our anthem in response to the alternative (80's fluff). Sorry but flock of Seagulls and Duran Duran just didn't convey the concept of jumping fences to skate in peoples empty pools while they were away. We drew off of bands like DRI, SNFU, Black Flag, Cockney Rejects, and company to put it into words while we acted it out.

I survived the mainstream of the 80's in spite of the music, not because of it

To be honest I am glad that McLaren did not have a better understanding of business. Otherwise he might have screwed it all up.

Long live punk rock.

[paulages]

Honestly, if you haven't been involved in punk since 1977..hell, since 1987... you really wouldn't get it. Punk in 1977 was about being loud and in society's face. It's since evolved into something much less interested in what mainstream society is doing, and more interested in creating an alternative. It's not as prolific as it may have been in '75-83, but it's definitely still alive and kicking. I don't know many other cultures where a person could easily find a floor to sleep on and likely a meal to eat almost anywhere in the world.

[bikerbart]

growing up an hour from NYC and with a fake ID (real liscense,fake info)got me everywhere.In the early 80's went to CBGB,Anthrax,tons of punk clubs back in the day.Miss it very much.Saw blondie,clash,New york dolls,ramones,bad brains,even got the chance to meet the original wailers and Bob Marleys kids(Some of them,there are lots)I miss the reggae influence on the punk scene as well,peter tosh and jimmy cliff,These are just some of what I experienced growing up,I could probably name more but I also did my share of experimenting with altering my perspective( a few less brain cells)

[greasy j]

growing up an hour from NYC and with a fake ID (real liscense,fake info)got me everywhere.In the early 80's went to CBGB,Anthrax,tons of punk clubs back in the day.Miss it very much.Saw blondie,clash,New york dolls,ramones,bad brains,even got the chance to meet the original wailers and Bob Marleys kids(Some of them,there are lots)I miss the reggae influence on the punk scene as well,peter tosh and jimmy cliff,These are just some of what I experienced growing up,I could probably name more but I also did my share of experimenting with altering my perspective( a few less brain cells)

I traveled around a lot when I was younger, hobo style. I ended up in NY for almost 2 yrs. I was only 19 and looked 15. but they let me in bars. that was way after when you are talking about. like 94 and 95. it was coney island high, not CBGB's for punk. but they seem to let kids drink there.

I lived in the bronx for a bit and there was a bodega on the corner where you could buy 5-10 dollr bags o weed, a cigar to wrap it in, a beer and sandwich all at the same spot. and then play vid games there while smoking and drinking. one stop shop! I think Giuliani ruined all that kind of stuff.

[bucky katt]

[greasy j]

growing up an hour from NYC and with a fake ID (real liscense,fake info)got me everywhere.In the early 80's went to CBGB,Anthrax,tons of punk clubs back in the day.Miss it very much.Saw blondie,clash,New york dolls,ramones,bad brains,even got the chance to meet the original wailers and Bob Marleys kids(Some of them,there are lots)I miss the reggae influence on the punk scene as well,peter tosh and jimmy cliff,These are just some of what I experienced growing up,I could probably name more but I also did my share of experimenting with altering my perspective( a few less brain cells)

I dig the reggae stuff, too.

Jimmy Cliff is my fave. not so much for the modern stuff. guy I used to work with listened to reggaeton. kinda irritating. Bad Brains and the Clash merged the 2 types well I think. a lot of 'ska-punk' bands are just retarded though. used to be every hc band would throw in a little reggae riff in at least one song. and the kids would 'skank'

now metal is the big influence, not what you guys might think of as metal, though. like swedish black/death stuff. a lot of hc bands these days sound almost like speed metal w/out the wankin off solos. throbbing and pissed though. with lyrics about saving the world and being vegan. haha. kinda joking.

[bikerbart]

I agree with the new Reggaeton and dance hall crap.Classic reggae all the way,I painted an island scene with pics of Bob Marley and gave it to ziggy Marley on stage in front of several hundred people,He hugged me and told me he was going to hang it in the Bob marley museum in kingston,Who knows it may actually be hanging there.That would be cool.I got back stage passes and party passes,My freind almost Sh*t himself .Before we left for the concert that day I told him I was bringing the painting to give ziggy in honor of his father,he told me I was nuts.I proved him wrong.

[greasy j]

I agree with the new Reggaeton and dance hall crap.Classic reggae all the way,I painted an island scene with pics of Bob Marley and gave it to ziggy Marley on stage in front of several hundred people,He hugged me and told me he was going to hang it in the Bob marley museum in kingston,Who knows it may actually be hanging there.That would be cool.I got back stage passes and party passes,My freind almost Sh*t himself .Before we left for the concert that day I told him I was bringing the painting to give ziggy in honor of his father,he told me I was nuts.I proved him wrong.

that is awesome! quite a memory.