Topic: Brand New Battery's dead

[YogiBear]

I put a brand new battery in my 74 CB750 this last January. I followed the exact procedures and kept it (in the bike) on a battery float charger. I went to start the bike today, and its completely dead. I havent started it for maybe two months. Im pissed.  Wtf? Whats going on? The bike is in a heated garage, and I guarantee that the charger was always plugged in. The battery I bought is an acid filled type like you would find at Schucks, or Autozone.

[TwoTired]

What float charger did you use?
Was it a resettable type?
Did you keep it full of electrolyte?

[YogiBear]

What float charger did you use?
Was it a resettable type?
Did you keep it full of electrolyte?

I used this charger: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42292
I use this charger on a Car as well (one that I dont drive that often) and no problems with it. I did not check the electrolyte level. Does it drain out over time? I had the caps on the top pushed down all the way.

[TwoTired]

Car batteries are far more tolerant of charge currents than MC batteries.  It is a matter of scale.  Car batteries have about 5 times the power factor of MC batteries.  The bigger lump is more tolerant of "abusive" charging levels.

If the MC battery has been "float charged" at levels appropriate for a car battery, it likely has abusive levels for a MC battery.  Can't say for sure without doing measurements.  And, the HF link does not list any charger specifications for proper analysis.  But, overcharging commonly begins the electrolysis process on the electrolyte, which separates hydrogen and oxygen from the solution in gaseous form.  H2O is water.  Or, it was when it was still combined with the sulfur in the electrolyte (H2SO4).  If you remove the water from the battery it goes dry and stops working.  Batteries can't live on sulfur alone.
The battery can go dry from overcharging, or neglect at keeping the electrolyte topped up with distilled water.  Hydrogen and Oxygen are liberated from the electrolyte solution both during charge and discharge conditions.

If you find the battery dry, fill it enough to cover the plates with distilled water and see if a charger will bring it back to some usefulness.
Measure the voltage and if it goes above 12.8 V, it may just revive.  If not...recycle instead of land fill.

Cheers,

[YogiBear]

Car batteries are far more tolerant of charge currents than MC batteries.  It is a matter of scale.  Car batteries have about 5 times the power factor of MC batteries.  The bigger lump is more tolerant of "abusive" charging levels.

If the MC battery has been "float charged" at levels appropriate for a car battery, it likely has abusive levels for a MC battery.  Can't say for sure without doing measurements.  And, the HF link does not list any charger specifications for proper analysis.  But, overcharging commonly begins the electrolysis process on the electrolyte, which separates hydrogen and oxygen from the solution in gaseous form.  H2O is water.  Or, it was when it was still combined with the sulfur in the electrolyte (H2SO4).  If you remove the water from the battery it goes dry and stops working.  Batteries can't live on sulfur alone.
The battery can go dry from overcharging, or neglect at keeping the electrolyte topped up with distilled water.  Hydrogen and Oxygen are liberated from the electrolyte solution both during charge and discharge conditions.

If you find the battery dry, fill it enough to cover the plates with distilled water and see if a charger will bring it back to some usefulness.
Measure the voltage and if it goes above 12.8 V, it may just revive.  If not...recycle instead of land fill.

Cheers,

Well, the charger's package said it was safe for Motorcycles and pwc's etc. but you never know. If I  cant get this battery to work, Im thinking about going with a maintenance free AGM battery. What do you think?

[david 750f]

As TT stated, check your electrolyte level. If the charger was malfunctioning it could have boiled the battery dry.
I don't mean to state the obvious but are you sure the charged was plugged in and working?
Cheers,
David

[YogiBear]

As TT stated, check your electrolyte level. If the charger was malfunctioning it could have boiled the battery dry.
I don't mean to state the obvious but are you sure the charged was plugged in and working?
Cheers,
David

Yes, thats the first thing I checked. I thought that maybe it had come unplugged, and the little indicator light on the charger had slowly drained the battery, but, no, it was plugged in.

[david 750f]

Is the bike completely dead? Do any lights come on? Maybe a main fuse?
Put a voltmeter on the battery and see if you get any readings.

[YogiBear]

Is the bike completely dead? Do any lights come on? Maybe a main fuse?
Put a voltmeter on the battery and see if you get any readings.

I dont think its the main fuse. there are no lights that come on. i can hear a faint sound from the starter when i push the start button. so i think its got just a little juice left, but barely any.

[david 750f]

Do you have another battery that you could try jump starting the bike?

[YogiBear]

Do you have another battery that you could try jump starting the bike?

I might try that tomorrow. I have some left over acid from when I got the battery. I am going to fill it up and see if it will charge enough for me to get it started.

[chickenman_26]

I used this charger: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42292
I use this charger on a Car as well (one that I dont drive that often) and no problems with it. I did not check the electrolyte level. Does it drain out over time? I had the caps on the top pushed down all the way.

Generally, people don't maintain their batteries. They don't even think about them until the vehicle won't start. And they don't understand much about batteries, so why would they think to examine the electrolyte level? You're not alone there. The two biggest killers of bike batteries are allowing the electrolyte level to drop below the "add" mark, and failure to keep the battery charged when it's not in regular use. The sealed, AGM design was an effort to eliminate failure from electrolyte loss, and to slow the rate of self-discharge. Yes, get an AGM battery, and you won't need to check the fluid level. But the issue of charge maintenance remains.

Though I haven't personally tested this Harbor Freight model, your experience with it is the third one I've heard of. I was able to examine the other two. Same scenario. Newish bike battery left attached for several months. Battery unable to crank the bike, and electrolyte level was a bit low, but not below the add line. I'm suspecting these little $8 float chargers may not be doing much, if anything. So why does it appear to work on your car battery?  Your 750's battery is a 190 CCA, while the one in your car is probably somewhere around 650 CCA. But your car and bike really have pretty similar starting requirements in terms of cranking amps - maybe around 125 A constant with an initial spike near 200 A. Both batteries will self-discharge a small percentage each day if just left unused and uncharged. But after several months, that 190 CCA bike battery may appear to be flat when you press the starter. The 650 CCA car battery, even if it had discharged 50%, could still have plenty of power to crank the engine - fooling you into thinking that little HF charger had actually been effective. I'm not saying you need to spend $100 to get a decent powersports battery maintainer. But I think your choice of the HF thing is false economy.

Stu

[chickenman_26]

Do you have another battery that you could try jump starting the bike?

I might try that tomorrow. I have some left over acid from when I got the battery. I am going to fill it up and see if it will charge enough for me to get it started.

Never add acid. Use only distilled water.

Stu

[TwoTired]

I have some left over acid from when I got the battery. I am going to fill it up and see if it will charge enough for me to get it started.

Why don't you just wail on it with a hatchet?

What did I tell you in post #3?

If you find the battery dry, fill it enough to cover the plates with distilled water and see if a charger will bring it back to some usefulness.
Measure the voltage and if it goes above 12.8 V, it may just revive. 

A dried battery has changed the chemical composition of the remaining electrolyte through the loss of plain pure water.  The battery is vented to the atmosphere.  Adding more acid now will make the electrolyte far too acid and this will corrode the internals far faster and NOT help its production of electricity.

Since I'm unable to help you, I'll now step aside and see if anyone else can reach you.

Good luck!

[chickenman_26]

Why don't you just wail on it with a hatchet?
What did I tell you in post #3?

Wow. Somebody sure is having a bad day.

[Tretnine]

Why don't you just wail on it with a hatchet?
What did I tell you in post #3?

Wow. Somebody sure is having a bad day.

HA. Looks like it. He's right though, use water. I use a 2 amp trickle charger I got from the local auto parts store. I'd prefer something even smaller, but it's what I've got. And, these little batteries go bad pretty easily if not babied. You might already be in the market for a new one...

[Spanner 1]

I'm with Chickenman.... that little 8 dollar charger may have done more harm than good !.... I presume the battery was left connected in the bike all the while since Jan., it's possible your rectifier is partly shorted .... a fully charged battery would lose voltage overnight  and the charger would have no effect...... if you can redeem this battery, charge it with it disconnected from the bike, then put it back in and try the starter, then leave for a few hours and see does it lose it's charge ( no charger applied ).... my 2c.

[TwoTired]

Why don't you just wail on it with a hatchet?
What did I tell you in post #3?

Wow. Somebody sure is having a bad day.

I don't have a lot of patience with rude people that ask for free help, have a thoughtful response provided, and then don't even bother to read it.

I give help freely.  The least a requester can do is consider the help given.

[Gordon]

Why don't you just wail on it with a hatchet?
What did I tell you in post #3?

Wow. Somebody sure is having a bad day.

I don't have a lot of patience with rude people that ask for free help, have a thoughtful response provided, and then don't even bother to read it.

I give help freely.  The least a requester can do is consider the help given.

Nobody was rude to you. 

[Laminar]

I used the same HF float charger on my 750's battery for about 5 months this winter and the battery is doing great now.

[razor02097]

Listen to TT.  Do not add acid, do not add tap water.  Use distilled water (like the bottled stuff)

Keep in mind that some AGM batteries require special chargers and may or may not work with specific applications.  Better to see if it was the charger or the bike that has ruined the battery.

Did you ever check the electrolyte levels and where they low?

[TwoTired]

Why don't you just wail on it with a hatchet?
What did I tell you in post #3?

Wow. Somebody sure is having a bad day.

I don't have a lot of patience with rude people that ask for free help, have a thoughtful response provided, and then don't even bother to read it.

I give help freely.  The least a requester can do is consider the help given.

Nobody was rude to you. 

..that you noticed or cared about.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rude
2 : lacking refinement or delicacy: a  : ignorant, unlearned  b : inelegant, uncouth  c : offensive in manner or action :  discourteous 

[scartail]

I found myself in a similar position. Bought a walmart battery last summer. went on vacation, while away... i used the same model HF float charger. When I got back, battery was dead, one cell had almost no fluid in it. Tried to recover. But couldn't. Look at my reciept... I was one week outside of warranty. I don't know where I went wrong.

[Gordon]

Nobody was rude to you. 

..that you noticed or cared about.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rude
2 : lacking refinement or delicacy: a  : ignorant, unlearned  b : inelegant, uncouth  c : offensive in manner or action :  discourteous 
[/quote]

That's a fairly accurate description of yourself.

This whole "If you don't play by my rules I'm taking my ball and going home" thing is childish and tired. 

[TwoTired]

Nobody was rude to you. 

..that you noticed or cared about.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rude
2 : lacking refinement or delicacy: a  : ignorant, unlearned  b : inelegant, uncouth  c : offensive in manner or action :  discourteous 

That's a fairly accurate description of yourself.[/quote]
And most certainly of you, Gordon.

This whole "If you don't play by my rules I'm taking my ball and going home" thing is childish and tired. 

And you missing no opportunity to bash me is a model of maturity?  Considering the source, your proclamation has little credibility, and is less than meaningless.