Topic: Healthcare Bill: Interesting Result

[tramp]

i think that when the bill kicks in all the way in 4 yrs we will know if all this was worth it

[traveler]

Well....like it or hate it....it doesn't matter.....we are going to try it, and as you just stated, time will tell.

~Joe

[demon78]

Razor I think you will find that Canada's health care has been going on for 30+ years without collapsing yet.
Bill the demon.

[razor02097]

I remember the minute Reagan was sworn in, the torrorists were released.  Irregardless of what you have been told...it was becaseu they knew Ron was coming to get them!



~Joe

I seem to remember Reagen cutting and running after the marine barracks were bombed in Lebanon in 1983.  Bin Laden saw this as weakness and started the beginning of his plan to force the U.S. out of Saudi Arabia and the Middle East.  Then a few years later he negotiated with terrorists to secure the release of six hostages in Lebanon, trading weapons to the Iranians for the hostages.

It takes more than knee jerk militarism to make you tough.  Didn't Bush's ill conceived comment "bring em on" show you that?

If your definition of cut and run is staying in for another 4 months while kicking terrorist ass then yeah guilty as charged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

Razor I think you will find that Canada's health care has been going on for 30+ years without collapsing yet.
Bill the demon.

it doesn't collapse because they ration care.



I'm done with this thread.  What a joke.

[Inigo Montoya]

Well when you keep posting crap, thats what happens.
I still fail to see how obama is being weak when he is outdoing what even reagan did.
I also fail to see how healthcare is rationed in canada and other countries when you can get any care you need.
What, you have to wait sometimes? So what, you do in the US too. Havent you ever had to schedule an appt? Of course and that is EXACTLY the same thing.
You got cancer in canada, do you wait? No more than you do here. Problem is you and joe seem to think you know it all when instead you should be listening to the people WHO ACTUALLY USE IT. But no, that would be too easy AND make sense. AND THEN you seem to fail to understand that the US has socialist programs EVERYWHERE!

Medicare is only for seniors like social security.

And this shows how little you really know about either. You can get medicare and ss benefits at almost any age if you meet certain criteria.
Yeah I guess it IS time for this thread to die, everyone here can get on the same page except for 2 that cant seem to find the right one.

[BeSeeingYou]

I remember the minute Reagan was sworn in, the torrorists were released.  Irregardless of what you have been told...it was becaseu they knew Ron was coming to get them!



~Joe

I seem to remember Reagen cutting and running after the marine barracks were bombed in Lebanon in 1983.  Bin Laden saw this as weakness and started the beginning of his plan to force the U.S. out of Saudi Arabia and the Middle East.  Then a few years later he negotiated with terrorists to secure the release of six hostages in Lebanon, trading weapons to the Iranians for the hostages.

It takes more than knee jerk militarism to make you tough.  Didn't Bush's ill conceived comment "bring em on" show you that?

If your definition of cut and run is staying in for another 4 months while kicking terrorist ass then yeah guilty as charged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

Did you even read the article you linked?  Just a few of the salient points. 

U.S. President Ronald Reagan called the attack a "despicable act" and pledged to keep a military force in Lebanon. Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, who had privately advised the administration against ever having stationed U.S. Marines in Lebanon, said there would be no change in the U.S.'s Lebanon policy.

The Marines were moved offshore where they could not be targeted. On February 7, 1984, President Reagan ordered the Marines to begin withdrawal from Lebanon. This was completed on February 26, four months after the barracks bombing

In fact, there was no serious retaliation for the Beirut bombing from the Americans, besides a few shellings.

In the meantime, the attack gave a boost to the growth of the Shi'ite organization Hezbollah.

Commentators argue that the lack of a response by the Americans emboldened terrorist organizations to conduct further attacks against US targets.

[Retro Rocket]

I'm done with this thread.  What a joke.

What is obvious here is that we are talking to a 20 year old with little experience and no idea.....

Mick

[razor02097]

Thank you for the personal attacks it just goes to show that liberal agenda knows no bounds when it comes to debates.

Retro Rocket I don't even know why you are playing along?  you don't even live in the states.

[demon78]

Rzr who told you they ration care? If you have a problem you don't wait, if you don't have something serious you wait, in the meantime you can afford it.
Bill the demon.

[Caaveman82]

Thank you for the personal attacks it just goes to show that liberal agenda knows no bounds when it comes to debates.

Retro Rocket I don't even know why you are playing along?  you don't even live in the states.

Facts are suddenly personal attacks? Liberal agenda? Hahaha.

[syth82]

Retro Rocket I don't even know why you are playing along?  you don't even live in the states.

well, let's see........

it doesn't collapse because they ration care.

Countries that had a socialistic system failed.  Miserably.  If Obama gets his way socialism ideals will have a chance to fail..... again.  It isn't suppose to be the governments job to provide me health care.  It is up to me to get a health plan. 

Razor I think that like Ed you're confusing socialism with communism because socialism could also be construed to be a social democratic country and I don't see Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada,
failing because of their political system but I have seen most of the communist countries fail because of their political systems, as far as China goes, I think they are a special case because their history will interfere with them being a pure communist state. My Nickels worth.
Bill the demon.

Nope.  Having a government run health care system doesn't make it a socialist country.  Read my post again.  Socialistic ideas fail.  The health care in countries like great Britten, Canada and others fail in the perspective of waiting lists and denial of care.

Also communism hasn't failed as bad as socialism because you are giving a governing body complete control instead of partial control.  Communism is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Communism leads to severe poverty, famine and extremely bad living conditions... Have you seen some of the villages in China?  Many who live there can not afford life in a city.  The Chinese government will not help them either.  They basically farm goods and give them to the government.  The government is kind enough to allow them to keep just enough to keep them somewhat healthy so they can work more.

The mutation of socialism and communism is Marxism. A form of Communist slavery.  Basically you turn a population into an ant hill... nobody "owns" a business per say... The effort is to eliminate anybody who is smart enough to start a business and make a lot of money.  Karl Marx's idea was a lower form of communism.  To say "from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution".  You work, he works, she works, we all work hey!  We all make the same, we all eat the same, nobody moves up, the only ones that do are the corrupt government workers running it all.

seems like all these socialist for'ners have the right to defend their countries, no?

[syth82]

then again, your position is a lot more difficult to argue when facts, from people who might know something about the subject, are involved....

[traveler]

Well when you keep posting crap, thats what happens.
I still fail to see how obama is being weak when he is outdoing what even reagan did.
I also fail to see how healthcare is rationed in canada and other countries when you can get any care you need.
What, you have to wait sometimes? So what, you do in the US too. Havent you ever had to schedule an appt? Of course and that is EXACTLY the same thing.
You got cancer in canada, do you wait? No more than you do here. Problem is you and joe seem to think you know it all when instead you should be listening to the people WHO ACTUALLY USE IT. But no, that would be too easy AND make sense. AND THEN you seem to fail to understand that the US has socialist programs EVERYWHERE!

Medicare is only for seniors like social security.

And this shows how little you really know about either. You can get medicare and ss benefits at almost any age if you meet certain criteria.
Yeah I guess it IS time for this thread to die, everyone here can get on the same page except for 2 that cant seem to find the right one.

So, if we don't agree with YOU, then WE must be wrong....as it is impossible for you to be wrong.

Name calling and condescention only show immaturity.  If you disagree with me then fine.....trying to ridicule and show arrogance only makes you look bad.  Not once have I called anyone here a name or tried to use personal attacks against them, eyt a couple seem to think they can "shout me down".......well, the November elections will show one way or the other where the majority of voters stand.  The Nielsen rating seem to be favoring the conservative view.....it will be interesting to see if the "it's all good" crowd stays in power.

~Joe

[Caaveman82]

Well when you keep posting crap, thats what happens.
I still fail to see how obama is being weak when he is outdoing what even reagan did.
I also fail to see how healthcare is rationed in canada and other countries when you can get any care you need.
What, you have to wait sometimes? So what, you do in the US too. Havent you ever had to schedule an appt? Of course and that is EXACTLY the same thing.
You got cancer in canada, do you wait? No more than you do here. Problem is you and joe seem to think you know it all when instead you should be listening to the people WHO ACTUALLY USE IT. But no, that would be too easy AND make sense. AND THEN you seem to fail to understand that the US has socialist programs EVERYWHERE!

Medicare is only for seniors like social security.

And this shows how little you really know about either. You can get medicare and ss benefits at almost any age if you meet certain criteria.
Yeah I guess it IS time for this thread to die, everyone here can get on the same page except for 2 that cant seem to find the right one.

So, if we don't agree with YOU, then WE must be wrong....as it is impossible for you to be wrong.

It's funny you say that when that was the way you were acting less than a week ago.

[traveler]

Well when you keep posting crap, thats what happens.
I still fail to see how obama is being weak when he is outdoing what even reagan did.
I also fail to see how healthcare is rationed in canada and other countries when you can get any care you need.
What, you have to wait sometimes? So what, you do in the US too. Havent you ever had to schedule an appt? Of course and that is EXACTLY the same thing.
You got cancer in canada, do you wait? No more than you do here. Problem is you and joe seem to think you know it all when instead you should be listening to the people WHO ACTUALLY USE IT. But no, that would be too easy AND make sense. AND THEN you seem to fail to understand that the US has socialist programs EVERYWHERE!

Medicare is only for seniors like social security.

And this shows how little you really know about either. You can get medicare and ss benefits at almost any age if you meet certain criteria.
Yeah I guess it IS time for this thread to die, everyone here can get on the same page except for 2 that cant seem to find the right one.

So, if we don't agree with YOU, then WE must be wrong....as it is impossible for you to be wrong.

It's funny you say that when that was the way you were acting less than a week ago.

Right now it isn't really affecting you, as you are in school....when you get ready to go back to work, then it might have a different impact.

Again, please show me where I have used personal insults to prove any point.....I can EASILY show you where it has been used against me.

~Joe

[Inigo Montoya]

Please, stop trying to act like a victim. Whatever, no one but you buys it. You have been plenty active in using insults, the difference is most of us are adult enough to handle it.

Name calling and condescention only show immaturity.  If you disagree with me then fine.....trying to ridicule and show arrogance only makes you look bad.  Not once have I called anyone here a name or tried to use personal attacks against them, eyt a couple seem to think they can "shout me down".......well, the November elections will show one way or the other where the majority of voters stand.  The Nielsen rating seem to be favoring the conservative view.....it will be interesting to see if the "it's all good" crowd stays in power.

Yes the november elections WILL show and I am betting that even on the long shot that republicans gain some power back, I seriously doubt they will do anything. I am betting though more states will go the same way as florida did in their recent special election where a Dem whipped a repubs carcass. As for condescending, you sure cant claim any innocence there.

[ryder60]

I thought foreigner's opinions could be valid.  They (we) share this planet with the USA and are nervous of loose cannons.  They share non-renewable resources that you use up at a vulgar rate.  They are inclined to try to take care of the environment that you are consuming and polluting in a competition with other nations for the status of top dog.  They are working their way out of financial difficulties because you and your smart guys brought to world economy to the brink of total collapse.

Gee, there are lots of reasons for them to want you to be a bit more aware of the rest of the world and act a little more rationally.

[traveler]

If you're concerned about the environment, look to China not the USA....they are polluting the Earth at an alarming rate.

~Joe

[syth82]

wow, china pollutes worse, so we have no responsibility? 

[traveler]

No, I was talking GLOBALLY.  

You don't have to worry about the US anymore....we don't have any industry any more.  We build our cars in Mexico and Canada now.....make steel in China, and Garmets in Bangladesh......

~Joe

[demon78]

Traveller it would be interesting to see what pollutes more war and the pursuit of it or of cheap goods for your markets as far as pollution goes, none of us have lily white hands, the same as the greed for cheap goods and you do have to admit that the states uses a hell of a lot of natural resources such as gas, oil, and water.
Bill the demon.

[syth82]

Uh, lets check the tape.........

If you're concerned about the environment, look to China not the USA....they are polluting the Earth at an alarming rate.

~Joe

Funny, "look to China not the USA" sounds like "china pollutes worse, so we have no responsibility"

[traveler]

Well...it comes down to this:

Don't wnat coal fired power plants, don't wnat windmills in MY backyard, they are ugly, and it takes too many to produce the same kWh as a coal burning power plant.  Hydro electric powerplants are too few and far between, and again, don't produce the anywhere near the kWh of a coal burner.  The only thing that can meet the power capacity of a coal plant is Nuclear.  Everyone is scared to death of Neuclear, so the question is......do you want electricity, or candles???

Even when a permit is given to build any plant, which are hard to obtain btw, it takes YEARS to build one.

I have worked in power plants, and I can tell you, coal and Nuke are the only power sources that can meet the current and future demand.

If the coutnries of the world wish to go to zero emissions, then alot of people are going to have to get used to horse drawn carriages again.

Electricity is a facet everyday life, same as oil.  Anything and everything that is plastic around you comes from oil......The majority of the items you rely on every day come from electricity.

There WAS a great idea for building a several hundered mile section of solar panels in the Nevada desert, but that never came to fruition.

I could go on and on, but it is patently obvious that the majority of the guys on here are of the "industry is evil" mindset.

I would LOVE to talk to Al Gore about it next time he flies into town on his own personal jet.

~Joe

[traveler]

Uh, lets check the tape.........

If you're concerned about the environment, look to China not the USA....they are polluting the Earth at an alarming rate.

~Joe

Funny, "look to China not the USA" sounds like "china pollutes worse, so we have no responsibility"

We have a responsibility to keep and maintain our standard of living for future generations.  If we eliminate anything that pollutes, the standard of living will crash down.  Even if we wanted to go 100% green, we do not have the capability to do so.

[traveler]

But, anyone that is truly concerned, could always do their part and quit riding their polluting CB motorcycle and buy a Schwinn.

~Joe