Topic: Healthcare Bill: Interesting Result

[SD750F]

razor,

ignorance, sorry you don't know me well enough to say that.

So, do you have first hand experiences with Medicare? Sounds like it. Oh please tell us about your personal experiences...

[razor02097]

medic09,

Your original post stated:

A poll simply asked the participants, "Are you glad the Healthcare Bill passed?"

   There have been 680 respondents so far.

   44.14 % (300) responded Yes.
   46.62 % (317) responded No.
   9.62 %   (63 ) responded Not Sure.

My wife has worked as a OR Nurse and an OR Manager for the last 30+ years. And I bet that the results in the local hospital would be the same. Here is my theory based on what my wife has told me. A lot of the hospital employees basically like the idea of the health care bill, but hear everyday constant complaints from some doctors and surgeons that the bill will ruin the economy... Now the doctors that are very vocal about their anger are all private owners of a local surgical center that each owner makes $3,000 per procedure every time one of their partners cuts a patient! They average 30 cases a day. That's $90,000 a day for each owner! And with an average of lets say 250 weeks a year, that's $23,400,000 per owner per year bonus!!!

So you can see why there are constantly talking crap about the plan. They want it to fail. They don't want to lose their bonus. Basic human nature. So all the employees have to sit there and listen to the doctors concerns every day during every surgery. After time the start to question their beliefs. If a false statement is said over and over, it will become a truth.

It isn't the owners of anything that are the vocal ones it will be the doctors out of med school with 100 grand in student loans making 30 to 50 bucks per patient.  With the new health care bill cut that in half and throw in some I.O.Us

razor,

ignorance, sorry you don't know me well enough to say that.

So, do you have first hand experiences with Medicare? Sounds like it. Oh please tell us about your personal experiences...

That is absolutely none of your business.


I don't know you, that is a shame I was hoping I was wrong and that you knew what you are talking about.

[medic09]

I dunno Scott.  (How are ya, btw? Want to help me figure out the wiring on my '75 Triumph?)  Personally I've heard very little discussion of this with/between the docs in our ED.  Nursing education has a pretty clear emphasis on health care policy.  Although most of us hated that part of school, a certain impact remains years later.  I think lots of nurses think (or don't think) for themselves.  Look how many times national nursing organizations have taken stands that differ with AMA.  What's more, many of the docs I know differ with national positions taken by AMA.

I started this thread only as an interesting sociological observation.  Nursing education has a strong emphasis on providing public care.  The BSN has a required community health component.  Nursing is a profession that historically cares about public health.  It is interesting to think that nurses aren't wholesale buying into the Obama plan.  (Again, it is a very limited sample and unscientific survey.)

[Caaveman82]

Razor,

I must have hit a raw nerve... Did me mentioning Sarah Palin bring out your attack? I contribute, and will continue to contribute. Really sorry you feel that way bud.

nope don't care about Sara Palin

I'm just surprised of the ignorance shown, and the amount of trust in the government to run something as delicate as health care.  Look how well they are running medicare...Oops

Jesus dude. Getting a little touchy huh? So what is your side of the story? You just don't want to help other people out or what? It's unconstitutional? What's your problem with a progressive step forward? I'm just curious here. It seems like your main concern is money. If that is the case why are you not this passionate about the Iraq and Afghan war? We have blown more money there in the past 5 years then this entire health care thing is going to cost, and for what? We have accomplished nothing except putting our economy in the toilet and killing a lot of fine young men for no reason at all. I know, I was there and watched it happened. Just so I could go pull a d12 out of a septic tank it had fallen into because some dumb ass was taking a joy ride in it. Pretty freaking stupid if you ask me, much bigger waste of money then... *whispers* helping others.  

[razor02097]

Razor,

I must have hit a raw nerve... Did me mentioning Sarah Palin bring out your attack? I contribute, and will continue to contribute. Really sorry you feel that way bud.

nope don't care about Sara Palin

I'm just surprised of the ignorance shown, and the amount of trust in the government to run something as delicate as health care.  Look how well they are running medicare...Oops

Jesus dude. Getting a little touchy huh? So what is your side of the story? You just don't want to help other people out or what? It's unconstitutional? What's your problem with a progressive step forward? I'm just curious here. It seems like your main concern is money. If that is the case why are you not this passionate about the Iraq and Afghan war? We have blown more money there in the past 5 years then this entire health care thing is going to cost, and for what? We have accomplished nothing except putting our economy in the toilet and killing a lot of fine young men for no reason at all. I know, I was there and watched it happened. Just so I could go pull a d12 out of a septic tank it had fallen into because some dumb ass was taking a joy ride in it. Pretty freaking stupid if you ask me, much bigger waste of money then... *whispers* helping others.  

The bottom line is that the government stepping in to run things isn't the answer.  They are demonizing the insurance companies like they are the only reason the health care system is as bad as it is now.  But what many don't realize is that the cost of care is insane! 

Killing off the insurance companies won't solve the underlying problem of cost of care.  Instead it will lead to insurance companies going under and eventually rationing of health care.  How is that going to help people?

Honestly it is funny you bring the middle eastern war on terror into the equation as it has nothing to do with the health care bill, nor is it the reason the economy is in the crapper.  People still think the war cost 2-5 trillion dollars (depending on who you talk to).  That is untrue.  What is true is that this new administration is acting like a socialist regime.

[Caaveman82]

Honestly it is funny you bring the middle eastern war on terror into the equation as it has nothing to do with the health care bill, nor is it the reason the economy is in the crapper.  People still think the war cost 2-5 trillion dollars (depending on who you talk to).  That is untrue.  What is true is that this new administration is acting like a socialist regime.

There you go again trying to discredit some one's opinion with no facts to back it up. You are basically stacking your opinion on top of mine. Tsk tsk. The war has in fact cost us more than the health care deal will.

3 Trillion + dead people for Iraq war.   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

900 Billion - 1.6 trillion for the health care bill, depending on where you look. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/us/19score.html


Looks like less to me.

[razor02097]

Honestly it is funny you bring the middle eastern war on terror into the equation as it has nothing to do with the health care bill, nor is it the reason the economy is in the crapper.  People still think the war cost 2-5 trillion dollars (depending on who you talk to).  That is untrue.  What is true is that this new administration is acting like a socialist regime.

There you go again trying to discredit some one's opinion with no facts to back it up. You are basically stacking your opinion on top of mine. Tsk tsk. The war has in fact cost us more than the health care deal will.

3 Trillion + dead people for Iraq war.   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

900 Billion - 1.6 trillion for the health care bill, depending on where you look. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/us/19score.html


Looks like less to me.

Incorrect.

http://costofwar.com/

The link was for a biased article that "projects" an amount.  If Obama pulls out in the time he says it will not cost 3 trillion.

The health care bill not only isn't done with the amounts it will cost the country but it will affect the individual American much more then the defense budget will.

[traveler]

Oh good, another health care thread. This one will be full of well-reasoned, calm discussion with all parties interested in expanding their viewpoints and growing personally.

That's a cute way of saying.....my way or the highway.   Kind of like the Dem's saying bi-partisan means going our way.

Still keep coming back to others telling me they know what's best when it comes to the money I EARN.

Not everyone sees "a progressive step forward"....meaning we will make the decisions for you.

~Joe

[Caaveman82]

Honestly it is funny you bring the middle eastern war on terror into the equation as it has nothing to do with the health care bill, nor is it the reason the economy is in the crapper.  People still think the war cost 2-5 trillion dollars (depending on who you talk to).  That is untrue.  What is true is that this new administration is acting like a socialist regime.

There you go again trying to discredit some one's opinion with no facts to back it up. You are basically stacking your opinion on top of mine. Tsk tsk. The war has in fact cost us more than the health care deal will.

3 Trillion + dead people for Iraq war.   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

900 Billion - 1.6 trillion for the health care bill, depending on where you look. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/us/19score.html


Looks like less to me.

Incorrect.

http://costofwar.com/

The link was for a biased article that "projects" an amount.  If Obama pulls out in the time he says it will not cost 3 trillion.

The health care bill not only isn't done with the amounts it will cost the country but it will affect the individual American much more then the defense budget will.

[traveler]

Well, when you are attacked (as we were on 9-11)....you have a choice.  You either fight back....or roll over like a little b1tch and take it.  The country as a whole decided to fight back.  No one ever said war was cheap.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people think that warfare is simple and anyone can do it.  We have Generals for a reason.  If you ignore the generals (as we did in Vietnam, with LBJ making ALL the decisions) then people die.

~Joe

[Laminar]

Oh good, another health care thread. This one will be full of well-reasoned, calm discussion with all parties interested in expanding their viewpoints and growing personally.

That's a cute way of saying.....my way or the highway.   Kind of like the Dem's saying bi-partisan means going our way.

Still keep coming back to others telling me they know what's best when it comes to the money I EARN.

Not everyone sees "a progressive step forward"....meaning we will make the decisions for you.

~Joe

I don't follow. As surely as most people in here claim to be able to predict the future, I'm surprised more of them haven't gotten rich off of Powerball jackpots.

[Laminar]

Well, when you are attacked (as we were on 9-11)....you have a choice.  You either fight back....or roll over like a little b1tch and take it.  The country as a whole decided to fight back.  No one ever said war was cheap.

~Joe

Nothing like biasing one answer by wording the options to your liking.

[traveler]

Oh good, another health care thread. This one will be full of well-reasoned, calm discussion with all parties interested in expanding their viewpoints and growing personally.

That's a cute way of saying.....my way or the highway.   Kind of like the Dem's saying bi-partisan means going our way.

Still keep coming back to others telling me they know what's best when it comes to the money I EARN.

Not everyone sees "a progressive step forward"....meaning we will make the decisions for you.

~Joe

I don't follow. As surely as most people in here claim to be able to predict the future, I'm surprised more of them haven't gotten rich off of Powerball jackpots.

It's really quite simple.

Conservatives=people are free to sink or swim on their own, and should be help responsible for the decisions in life that they make.

Liberals=people in general are stupid, and therefore need those who are "enlightened" to make decisions in their best interest for them.

I believe that if you want things in life you earn them and make your own way.  Liberals feel, that by merely existing, that all cares and concerns should be provided.....the problem lies in the fact that government dosen't create jobs and income....all they can do is take,take,take from those that do.  More and more businesses will leave the US, becasue it simply dosen't make sense to own a business, take all the risks, and have the government dictate to you what you ALLOWED to do.

Without incentive, nothing gets accomplished.

Never fear.....the people of the USA WANT to go the route of Socailism, and that is where we will end up.  I have accepted it.  The problem lies in one sentance....."Where will I work?"


~Joe

[razor02097]

Honestly it is funny you bring the middle eastern war on terror into the equation as it has nothing to do with the health care bill, nor is it the reason the economy is in the crapper.  People still think the war cost 2-5 trillion dollars (depending on who you talk to).  That is untrue.  What is true is that this new administration is acting like a socialist regime.

There you go again trying to discredit some one's opinion with no facts to back it up. You are basically stacking your opinion on top of mine. Tsk tsk. The war has in fact cost us more than the health care deal will.

3 Trillion + dead people for Iraq war.   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

900 Billion - 1.6 trillion for the health care bill, depending on where you look. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/us/19score.html


Looks like less to me.

Incorrect.

http://costofwar.com/

The link was for a biased article that "projects" an amount.  If Obama pulls out in the time he says it will not cost 3 trillion.

The health care bill not only isn't done with the amounts it will cost the country but it will affect the individual American much more then the defense budget will.

 

You have these videos bookmarked or something?

[Caaveman82]

Well, when you are attacked (as we were on 9-11)....you have a choice.  You either fight back....or roll over like a little b1tch and take it.  The country as a whole decided to fight back.  No one ever said war was cheap.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people think that warfare is simple and anyone can do it.  We have Generals for a reason.  If you ignore the generals (as we did in Vietnam, with LBJ making ALL the decisions) then people die.

~Joe

Oh you mean also like the Iraq war?
Colin Powell: You need to have an exit strategy!
Bush: I like pretzels.

[Inigo Montoya]

Razor, how do you KNOW it will cause private insurers to die off? Sure some might but I doubt ALL of them will go. It will force them to become more efficient and that is always a good thing.
You obviously get your news from right wing sources.
You know what is REALLY funny? A good chunk of this plan was proposed by the republicans back in 93.
As for govt not being able to run things well, I have yet to see large corporations run things well. Of sure, they run well to make money for themselves but obviously they are not in it to run healthcare well.

I will tell you though. IF this reform ends up being bad and IF it causes problems, then you can be republicans will take over again. But you know what, I bet they will not repeal this reform at all. hell if it were up to republicans, minimum wage would still be $4.25 probably.  Oh, and if people were supposedly so against dems for this healthcare thing, then why did a dem win in FL in a special election?

[traveler]

Ask yourself one question....

Where I work....the owner....he provides me a job......if we continue to try to tax him....at what point will I lose my job becaseu it isn't cost effective to keep me around?

Gotta be careful about crapping in your own dinner plate.

It isn't about healthcare...it's about CONTROL.

~Joe

[traveler]

Razor, how do you KNOW it will cause private insurers to die off? Sure some might but I doubt ALL of them will go. It will force them to become more efficient and that is always a good thing.
You obviously get your news from right wing sources.
You know what is REALLY funny? A good chunk of this plan was proposed by the republicans back in 93.
As for govt not being able to run things well, I have yet to see large corporations run things well. Of sure, they run well to make money for themselves but obviously they are not in it to run healthcare well.

I will tell you though. IF this reform ends up being bad and IF it causes problems, then you can be republicans will take over again. But you know what, I bet they will not repeal this reform at all. hell if it were up to republicans, minimum wage would still be $4.25 probably.  Oh, and if people were supposedly so against dems for this healthcare thing, then why did a dem win in FL in a special election?

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be a career.  People have to WORK,WORK,WORK to have the same as "the joneses"....you can't give someone prosperity.  If minimum wage goes to 15 bucks an hour....Big Mac's will cost 10 bucks each....no one will buy them, and everyone gets laid off.

~Joe

[Inigo Montoya]

Wow joe, what kind of stupid are you smoking? Do you honestly believe all the crap you are spewing?
We got attacked on 9/11 but it was proven that iraq had NOTHING to do with it. So why are we there? Has it gained ANYTHING for ALL of the US or just the rich corporations? I sure have not seen ANY benefit from it. Just a bunch of dead soldiers or soldiers wounded for life, many of which are unable to work a normal job.

Also, how is it about control when bush pushed through the massively freedom limiting patriot act? how about all the garbage searches performed by homeland insecurity and the tsa?

As for intelligence of conservatives and liberals, I would not stand behind that if I were you. Many of the worlds smartest people would be labeled "liberal" and many of the dumbest would be "conservative". Sorry but Palin makes a box of rocks look smart and she is becoming the posterchild for a lot of conservatives. God help our country if she gets in office as it will go to hell almost overnight.

[razor02097]

Razor, how do you KNOW it will cause private insurers to die off? Sure some might but I doubt ALL of them will go. It will force them to become more efficient and that is always a good thing.
You obviously get your news from right wing sources.
You know what is REALLY funny? A good chunk of this plan was proposed by the republicans back in 93.
As for govt not being able to run things well, I have yet to see large corporations run things well. Of sure, they run well to make money for themselves but obviously they are not in it to run healthcare well.

I will tell you though. IF this reform ends up being bad and IF it causes problems, then you can be republicans will take over again. But you know what, I bet they will not repeal this reform at all. hell if it were up to republicans, minimum wage would still be $4.25 probably.  Oh, and if people were supposedly so against dems for this healthcare thing, then why did a dem win in FL in a special election?

hee hee  you know something?  Just cause there where republicans on the task force didn't mean all republicans supported that bill (introduced by the Clinton administration not republicans).  It was also for universal health care which is different then the bill that just passed.  Universal health care would basically merge all the benefits and plans into a cookie cutter plan that could stamp out for all hard working American citizens.

Also hate to disappoint you into thinking I am republican.  I am not.  I am conservative.  See Democrat and Republican during the Bush jr administration became basically the same damn thing.  The Republican party jumped into another dimension of liberal ideals while us conservatives are left in the dust with jaws hanging open... I was hoping to get our crap together before the 2010 and 2012 elections but at this rate the liberals will practically vote themselves out of office.

[traveler]

Well, when you are attacked (as we were on 9-11)....you have a choice.  You either fight back....or roll over like a little b1tch and take it.  The country as a whole decided to fight back.  No one ever said war was cheap.

~Joe

Nothing like biasing one answer by wording the options to your liking.

WE WILL BE ATTACKED AGAIN....you can count on it.

and when it happens, people will be crying out saying "why didn't you do something about it?"

And we will say....."we tried, but you said stop being mean to those poor peace loving muslims".

~Joe

[Caaveman82]

Oh it's about control.

I see. For a while there it really sounded like you were just worried how much you had to pay.

Sorry about that, my mistake.

[traveler]

Wow joe, what kind of stupid are you smoking? Do you honestly believe all the crap you are spewing?
We got attacked on 9/11 but it was proven that iraq had NOTHING to do with it. So why are we there? Has it gained ANYTHING for ALL of the US or just the rich corporations? I sure have not seen ANY benefit from it. Just a bunch of dead soldiers or soldiers wounded for life, many of which are unable to work a normal job.

Also, how is it about control when bush pushed through the massively freedom limiting patriot act? how about all the garbage searches performed by homeland insecurity and the tsa?

As for intelligence of conservatives and liberals, I would not stand behind that if I were you. Many of the worlds smartest people would be labeled "liberal" and many of the dumbest would be "conservative". Sorry but Palin makes a box of rocks look smart and she is becoming the posterchild for a lot of conservatives. God help our country if she gets in office as it will go to hell almost overnight.

I'll let you in on a secret....sshhhh!  Bush....he isn't in charge anymore......Barack Obama is.....in fact, he has ben for over a year.....and even though he said he would pull the troops out in 60 days...he didn't.....and in fact he INCREASED troops in Afghanistan.....or and get this.....Al-Quieda actually TRAINED in Iraq......i can't beleive the audacity of these muslims to work together....I can't understand why we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan....I mean Obama promised he would bring all the troops home....why did he lie to me?

~Joe

[razor02097]

Well, when you are attacked (as we were on 9-11)....you have a choice.  You either fight back....or roll over like a little b1tch and take it.  The country as a whole decided to fight back.  No one ever said war was cheap.

~Joe

Nothing like biasing one answer by wording the options to your liking.

WE WILL BE ATTACKED AGAIN....you can count on it.

and when it happens, people will be crying out saying "why didn't you do something about it?"

And we will say....."we tried, but you said stop being mean to those poor peace loving muslims".

~Joe

Ok come on now... Until Obama would completely dismantle the CIA influence in homeland security there is a very slim possibility of another 9/11/01 scale attack happening

[Caaveman82]

Honestly it is funny you bring the middle eastern war on terror into the equation as it has nothing to do with the health care bill, nor is it the reason the economy is in the crapper.  People still think the war cost 2-5 trillion dollars (depending on who you talk to).  That is untrue.  What is true is that this new administration is acting like a socialist regime.

There you go again trying to discredit some one's opinion with no facts to back it up. You are basically stacking your opinion on top of mine. Tsk tsk. The war has in fact cost us more than the health care deal will.

3 Trillion + dead people for Iraq war.   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

900 Billion - 1.6 trillion for the health care bill, depending on where you look. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/us/19score.html


Looks like less to me.

Incorrect.

http://costofwar.com/

The link was for a biased article that "projects" an amount.  If Obama pulls out in the time he says it will not cost 3 trillion.

The health care bill not only isn't done with the amounts it will cost the country but it will affect the individual American much more then the defense budget will.

 

You have these videos bookmarked or something?

  I just might... it never gets old to me. I love that movie and I cannot say it better myself.