Topic: Healthcare Bill: Interesting Result

[traveler]

Blame greedy big business for that mate, its all in the name of the friggin dollar. China is fast becoming established and when it gets to the stage that it costs the same to manufacture things in the US it will all go full circle, its starting to happen already.
[quote/]

never happen....that's the beauty of communism, they will control the situation.

~Joe

[Retro Rocket]

Oh yeah....well is Oz is so great, why do bike parts cost so much? Grin

Well we only had 13 million population when the Honda first came to OZ, so after choppers and modded bikes, few good examples are left. The upside is that when built they are worth big dollars.....

Mick

[Retro Rocket]

Blame greedy big business for that mate, its all in the name of the friggin dollar. China is fast becoming established and when it gets to the stage that it costs the same to manufacture things in the US it will all go full circle, its starting to happen already.
[quote/]

never happen....that's the beauty of communism, they will control the situation.

~Joe

Afraid not Joe, all the people that used to ride bicycles now own cars, its already started....the wealth is spreading.

Mick

[traveler]

tiananmen square is proof of what the gov't will do to keep control.

~Joe

[Caaveman82]

tiananmen square is proof of what the gov't will do to keep control.

~Joe

Yeah and look at China now, they are a crappy country with no money and a 3rd rate health care system. Oh wait... what?

[traveler]

Are you SURE life in China is great?

Have you ever been to Asia?

i used to live there.

~Joe

[Caaveman82]

Are you SURE life in China is great?

Have you ever been to Asia?

i used to live there.

~Joe

Asia yes, China no. I've been to quite a few Asian countries.

[Retro Rocket]

tiananmen square is proof of what the gov't will do to keep control.

~Joe

China is slowly opening up through capitalism, you will see lots of changes as China becomes more open. Their government would love to keep China just the way it is but being a part of the modern world will dictate otherwise......Remember Russia....

Mick

[razor02097]

Countries that had a socialistic system failed.  Miserably.  If Obama gets his way socialism ideals will have a chance to fail..... again.  It isn't suppose to be the governments job to provide me health care.  It is up to me to get a health plan. 

I currently have a high deductible health plan and with what I save over a premium plan with full benefits (because I'm healthy and 20) I put into a health savings account.  I will end up having to adjust the amount because in the Obamacare bill he says I can't contribute more then 2500 dollars a year... They are basically telling me that I can't defer more then 2500... they want to be able to tax more of my paycheck... That my friends is bull poo...

retro rocket...
It isn't just the lack of jobs it is the people's will to work for less and less.  Taxes and cost of living is still pretty good here in the USA compared to other countries but it is still getting more and more expensive.  With large bills being passed like the health care, stimulus after stimulus and the omnibus bill the tax and cost of living go up faster.  Pretty soon the working populous that doesn't have but a few exemptions they can claim will have most the paycheck going for taxes, medicare, social security, Obamacare...

The new iPod the guy wants suddenly is out of his reach... It sucks but maybe he didn't really need it to begin with.  It would be nice if it was lack of luxury goods was the only thing we couldn't afford.  Alas it gets worse.

As the American paycheck dwindles it's a double whammy when the health insurance premium for a healthy 20 somethings goes up even though it isn't necessarily them who need the care.  All of a sudden their decent paycheck becomes a paycheck that can not sustain their cost of living.  One of 2 things usually happen

1) Their credit gets destroyed as they no longer can pay off their debt and buy food, gas, rent and clothes
2) They quit their job and start to live off the system.

Enough people choosing #2 and the taxes raise again.... God forbid the economy tanks again... Lay offs, no merit increases, axing of benefits... how can we keep up with inflation?

[ev0lve]

I currently have a high deductible health plan and with what I save over a premium plan with full benefits (because I'm healthy and 20) I put into a health savings account. 

You're 20 yeas old and not hell bent on crippling yourself, ODing on whatever or inadvertently maiming others? What's wrong with you?

[demon78]

I shouldn't but, Traveller why are you whining about America getting attacked, it did and will be again that goes without saying, having said that, do I wish you ill, no, my country will be attacked, can we stop it, no,
but I hope that we don't let that fact change our national psyche the way it seems to in your country. Razor I think that like Ed you're confusing socialism with communism because socialism could also be construed to be a social democratic country and I don't see Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada,
failing because of their political system but I have seen most of the communist countries fail because of their political systems, as far as China goes, I think they are a special case because their history will interfere with them being a pure communist state. My Nickels worth.
Bill the demon.

[traveler]

Peace through strength, my friend.

When you are the biggest, baddest mother f'kr on the playground nobody messes with you becaseu they KNOW you will annillate them!

Problems come when other sense weakness.  With Obama....they sense weakness, and it emboldens the terroists.

I remember the minute Reagan was sworn in, the torrorists were released.  Irregardless of what you have been told...it was becaseu they knew Ron was coming to get them!

It my not be "civilized".....but the stronger and meaner you are, the SAFER your populace gets to live.

The ragheads understand one thing BRUTE FORCE.  If you will employ it without hesitation or remorse, then they will not attack.  Same as a burglar...if he knows that house's owner is armed, but the neighbor is NOT....which house will be robbed?

This healthcare business will further out slide into debt....which causes weakness, and it is seen.  We simply do not have enough money int he tresury to provide insurance for 300 MILLION people!

Maybe it's jsut where I come from....in Western Montana, we protect our stuff, and the law is on our side......no need for driveby's when you have a 300 Win Mag and a scope!

~Joe

[razor02097]

Razor I think that like Ed you're confusing socialism with communism because socialism could also be construed to be a social democratic country and I don't see Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada,
failing because of their political system but I have seen most of the communist countries fail because of their political systems, as far as China goes, I think they are a special case because their history will interfere with them being a pure communist state. My Nickels worth.
Bill the demon.

Nope.  Having a government run health care system doesn't make it a socialist country.  Read my post again.  Socialistic ideas fail.  The health care in countries like great Britten, Canada and others fail in the perspective of waiting lists and denial of care.

Also communism hasn't failed as bad as socialism because you are giving a governing body complete control instead of partial control.  Communism is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Communism leads to severe poverty, famine and extremely bad living conditions... Have you seen some of the villages in China?  Many who live there can not afford life in a city.  The Chinese government will not help them either.  They basically farm goods and give them to the government.  The government is kind enough to allow them to keep just enough to keep them somewhat healthy so they can work more.

The mutation of socialism and communism is Marxism. A form of Communist slavery.  Basically you turn a population into an ant hill... nobody "owns" a business per say... The effort is to eliminate anybody who is smart enough to start a business and make a lot of money.  Karl Marx's idea was a lower form of communism.  To say "from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution".  You work, he works, she works, we all work hey!  We all make the same, we all eat the same, nobody moves up, the only ones that do are the corrupt government workers running it all.

[razor02097]

I currently have a high deductible health plan and with what I save over a premium plan with full benefits (because I'm healthy and 20) I put into a health savings account. 

You're 20 yeas old and not hell bent on crippling yourself, ODing on whatever or inadvertently maiming others? What's wrong with you?

yeah I know right?

[Inigo Montoya]

So the farm programs, highways, city/town infrastructures, medicare, Medicaid, medica, armed forces, and countless other things are not socialist? Of course they are and everyone uses them every single day. Yeah, socialist ideas constantly fail. 

yes joe, obama is weak. he has only increased the troops in the afghan wasteland. he has increased missions to take out enemy leaders, he has authorized assassination of a known terrorist that also has US citizenship. gitmo has not closed. but yeah, obama is weak. you just keep taking those hits off the stupid pipe.

[razor02097]

So the farm programs, highways, city/town infrastructures, medicare, Medicaid, medica, armed forces, and countless other things are not socialist? Of course they are and everyone uses them every single day. Yeah, socialist ideas constantly fail.  

The difference being our towns, cities and highways are built by private companies sub contracted by the state that is planning for it.

Farms are privately owned

How is the armed forces socialist?

Medicade is run by the state and not the federal government.  Medicare is only for seniors like social security.  It was an idea for investment into the private market but the government thought it would be better run if they handled it... look where it is now.

[BeSeeingYou]

I remember the minute Reagan was sworn in, the torrorists were released.  Irregardless of what you have been told...it was becaseu they knew Ron was coming to get them!



~Joe

I seem to remember Reagen cutting and running after the marine barracks were bombed in Lebanon in 1983.  Bin Laden saw this as weakness and started the beginning of his plan to force the U.S. out of Saudi Arabia and the Middle East.  Then a few years later he negotiated with terrorists to secure the release of six hostages in Lebanon, trading weapons to the Iranians for the hostages.

It takes more than knee jerk militarism to make you tough.  Didn't Bush's ill conceived comment "bring em on" show you that?

[Caaveman82]

Peace through strength, my friend.
When you are the biggest, baddest mother f'kr on the playground nobody messes with you becaseu they KNOW you will annillate them!

That is weird you say that because an aggressive posture usually gets people attacked. Aggression causes fear, fear causes violent reactions.
 

Problems come when other sense weakness.  With Obama....they sense weakness, and it emboldens the terroists.
I remember the minute Reagan was sworn in, the torrorists were released.  Irregardless of what you have been told...it was becaseu they knew Ron was coming to get them!

Yes Obama is weak because he showed respect to leaders in their own countries, give me a break. I'm sure everyone was real scared of wrinkled old Ron. Well he certainly maxed out the nation's credit card, good on him for that right? Good old war on drugs got us real far didn't it? How much did that cost by the way? Oh yeah, and where did that money come from? We sure didn't have it in the reserves. Unless you yourself are a terrorist or psychologist I would like to know where your credentials are for making assumptions into facts about what the terrorists perceive as weakness. You say it is weakness but it's obvious to me, and probably others here, that you are not a fan of Obama for reasons other than the way he runs his administration. Could stupidity be considered weak? If so, maybe that is the reason we got attacked while Bush was in office.

It my not be "civilized".....but the stronger and meaner you are, the SAFER your populace gets to live.
The ragheads understand one thing BRUTE FORCE.  If you will employ it without hesitation or remorse, then they will not attack.  Same as a burglar...if he knows that house's owner is armed, but the neighbor is NOT....which house will be robbed?

Your logic is flawed because we did mobilize quickly and we are still getting attacked. Violence is not always the answer hoss. The “ragheads” as you call them, which by the way is just stupid, are not children. If you raise your voice at them they won't obey. They are if anything more like teens, you raise your voice at them and they punch you in the beak. Did it ever occur to you that they hate us because of our nations superiority complex? Because we are a wasteful and glutinous society and they have nothing? Just a thought.

This healthcare business will further out slide into debt....which causes weakness, and it is seen.  We simply do not have enough money int he tresury to provide insurance for 300 MILLION people!
Maybe it's jsut where I come from....in Western Montana, we protect our stuff, and the law is on our side......no need for driveby's when you have a 300 Win Mag and a scope!

You are worried about what the health care bill will do the economy? Weird because in the last ten years China has purchased a good chunk of land from us because we owe them so much. Yes, before Obama. I don't want to be mean here but do you really think that he is a Muslim and out to get us? Come on dude, lets think about this logically instead of jumping to conclusions.

 EDIT: So no one gets butt hurt.

[Laminar]

Like I said.

[Inigo Montoya]

They are all still socialist programs raz, No matter what spin you try to put on them.
As for the service being socialistic. Do you really need it explained? it is pretty obvious. It is taxpayer funded, NOT operated by private companies. Every soldier enlists "usually" of their own free will BUT becomes property of the US government. Pretty obvious.

[traveler]

You can always tell when you have won an argument when the other resorts to personal attacks.

~Joe

[BeSeeingYou]

You can always tell when you have won an argument when the other resorts to personal attacks.

~Joe

Yeah, your always a victim when the facts don't go your way.

[Retro Rocket]

You can always tell when you have won an argument when the other resorts to personal attacks.

~Joe

Sorry Joe but you have won nothing mate. Americas propensity to use violence to solve its problems and drag the rest of the world in with it has given the extremists the reasons they needed to do what they do and makes it really easy to justify what they are doing to the masses , they just use fear provided by the US as a tool in their education of the masses to unite behind them to rise up and stop the "infidels".  The problem lies in the fact that these are poor nations with little or no education and when they are shown or see the "mighty" US bombing innocent people { happens all the time} in their pursuit of the terrorists, then there's all the justification they need.   Brute force solves nothing and the longer there are people that believe in that then the longer we will be in conflict and be subject to wars. Its about time the US started reaching for its brains instead of weapons to solve its {or others} problems.

And Razor, i would rather be on a waiting list for a medical problem than bankrupted for not being able to pay the bill . I had a transplant in 1999 and it didn't cost me a cent....I would have been bankrupted in the US because i would have had no insurance because i had a pre-existing condition....

Mick

[Caaveman82]

You can always tell when you have won an argument when the other resorts to personal attacks.

~Joe

Yeah, your always a victim when the facts don't go your way.

It's not my fault I have narrow views and refer to people I don't know the first thing about in a derogatory manner, it is my mother's fault, she didn't love me enough. In other words, Amen Srust.


Joe that was a very Freudian statement there. You can never be wrong I see.

[BeSeeingYou]

It my not be "civilized".....but the stronger and meaner you are, the SAFER your populace gets to live.



~Joe

Ask the populace that lived under Stalin in the Soviet Union or Hitler in Germany how safe they got to live.  Those two were MEAN and their countries pretty strong at the time.  Might does not make right dude. It leads to tyranny.