Topic: defeated, depressed, and confused --- UPDATED!

[scottly]

So I fixed my current problem of no spark by un gapping my points. I gapped them according to the book to .014, but when I did that I lost my spark, so I un gapped them.

Uh, you must not have gapped them properly, if "ungapping" caused your spark to return: you probably set the gap to .014 when they were supposed to be closed...

[xfactor]

So I fixed my current problem of no spark by un gapping my points. I gapped them according to the book to .014, but when I did that I lost my spark, so I un gapped them.

Uh, you must not have gapped them properly, if "ungapping" caused your spark to return: you probably set the gap to .014 when they were supposed to be closed...

Followed the manual to the T. Ill give her another read threw to make sure, could this possible be a timing issue?

[TwoTired]

So I fixed my current problem of no spark by un gapping my points. I gapped them according to the book to .014, but when I did that I lost my spark, so I un gapped them.

Uh, you must not have gapped them properly, if "ungapping" caused your spark to return: you probably set the gap to .014 when they were supposed to be closed...

Followed the manual to the T. Ill give her another read threw to make sure, could this possible be a timing issue?

Wait... So what you are saying is that the manual is wrong, and following it will make every honda in the world stop working?
Hmmm...Hard to believe they could have got it THAT wrong.  Also amazing is that when I follow the manual instructions, my bikes work great.

Perhaps...   

Each point set has two adjustments. One is to set maximum point gap, after finding the high point of the points cam by turning the crank.  The second is to rotate the points around the crankshaft plane so that they *just* open when the timing mark comes by.  1.4 is done first, then 2.3 is adjusted, and they each have different adjustment screws.

Is this the "failed" procedure you followed? 

[754]

RE # 49,
 What I was meaning to say was starting to file them, ie breaking off the sharp point causes file to grab. Once it starts to smooth off it goes better.

 I better thow in a disclaimer here, I havent touched a set for a while and I may be guilty of running poor condensers, but what I say next may be a deciding point on wether you like running contact breaker ignitions.

 Basically way back I used to worry a lot about pitting on points, once I stopped worrying about the appearance (they never stay looking smooth) and I got them sanded, cleaned, and set, almost always by static timing.. it just  seemed to work easily.. But keep in mind I have been using car points for a long time.. the current ride has stock type, been riding it daily since Labour Day, time to take a look at them..

[Old75_ratafe]

Wow this sounds like a whole lotta hassle.  Ok and this will probably start something (not my intent) My friends dad parked his bike because he never could get the thing running after he replaced the points.  When I got it (after it sat for near 18 years) I picked up a dyna ignition plate bolted in and it fired right up and I never touched that points cover again.  I'm not saying once system is better than another from a performance point but from a maintenance perspective I personally prefer the newer style ones their a set and forget.  And for the dyna haters out there their are other companies making them too.

[Tretnine]

So I fixed my current problem of no spark by un gapping my points. I gapped them according to the book to .014, but when I did that I lost my spark, so I un gapped them.

Uh, you must not have gapped them properly, if "ungapping" caused your spark to return: you probably set the gap to .014 when they were supposed to be closed...

Followed the manual to the T. Ill give her another read threw to make sure, could this possible be a timing issue?

Wait... So what you are saying is that the manual is wrong, and following it will make every honda in the world stop working?
Hmmm...Hard to believe they could have got it THAT wrong.  Also amazing is that when I follow the manual instructions, my bikes work great.

Perhaps...   

Each point set has two adjustments. One is to set maximum point gap, after finding the high point of the points cam by turning the crank.  The second is to rotate the points around the crankshaft plane so that they *just* open when the timing mark comes by.  1.4 is done first, then 2.3 is adjusted, and they each have different adjustment screws.

Is this the "failed" procedure you followed? 

You know the Clymer on the 550 has an intake valve clearance of .02" and exhaust of .03" instead of .002" and .003" respectively. If I wasn't on the boards asking questions I never would have known. The books do make mistakes... sometimes pretty big ones. Luckily the measurements were also there in metric or I never would have known to second guess what was going on. It'd be a good way to shorten the life on your valve train, though...

[TwoTired]

Honda didn't print the Clymer manual.

[MickeyX]

And yet, that is the manual in question. Thanks for catching up and reiterating what Tretnine just explained.

I personally don't like the Clymer but you gotta use what you can get your hands on sometimes. Maybe recheck the book to the #s put on here for you. They may have missed a step in there or didn't explain it the whole way. I have found spots where they assume you already know some of it and will just do it. You can download a free Honda manual if it would help, too. Then maybe TT can speak with a nicer voice instead of talking down to you. 

[Hush]

Try following Clymer's 650 manual on electrical wiring......the colours don't match Clymer!!!!

[xfactor]

Good news! she started and ran half way decent, well good enough for me to get home anyway. Got some work to do in the next few day. Ended up needing a new battery and the previous stuff i mentioned.

As far as me screwing up the points, in all honestly it probably was me just reading the manual wrong, but it looks like other people have had their own fair share of problems with the clymer manuals. I am going to have to download the honda manual and use that one from now on.


I wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted in this thread becuase if it wasn't for you guys my bike would still be stranded. You guys were a huge help so thanks everyone!


Croix

[Hush]

As long as you are no longer DEFEATED-DEPRESSED AND CONFUSED mate we are happy for ya.

[scottly]

 

[Tretnine]

Honda didn't print the Clymer manual.

I hold honda to higher standards than clymer, but the guy deserves some slack since that's the book he's working with. Sometimes you get what you get.

[754]

Generally the non-factory books will get you in the right direction, they do have the odd mistake..

 Yeah, I have had it happen and it cost..

 But what I am trying to say is research & learn & study as much as you can before turning the wrenches, the blanks we gotta fill will be small.. and it keeps everyone happy..

 Speaking for myself , I can lose interest pretty quick if the person  does not want to try to understand...

[Spanner 1]

Somewhat confused.?... my 750 Clymer has a very good description on the points and timing procedure... should be very easy to follow.....

[scottly]

Somewhat confused.?... my 750 Clymer has a very good description on the points and timing procedure... should be very easy to follow.....

If you had never set timing or points before, do you think it would have been easy? Give the kid a break; he doesn't have anywhere near our 30+ years of experience.

[campbmic]

Speaking of manual I've been wondering this. The 500/550 Workshop manual I printed off of this site has great details about the procedures but A TON of the measurements aren't calculated correctly? I'm sure others have noticed this. Why is this? Was someone hitting the sauce and working a calculator?

[TwoTired]

Speaking of manual I've been wondering this. The 500/550 Workshop manual I printed off of this site has great details about the procedures but A TON of the measurements aren't calculated correctly? I'm sure others have noticed this. Why is this? Was someone hitting the sauce and working a calculator?

Beyond the fact it was translated from Japanese where the prowess of the translator is unknown, and it was never intended to train neophyte home mechanics, I guess we'd have to examine the "TON of the measurements aren't calculated correctly" on a case by case basis.

Could also be that your test equipment isn't calibrated the same or have the same capability as the equipment used in the measurements made for the manual.    Then there is the issue of test technique, which may or may not be as reliable as what was performed for the measurements in the manual.

[Tretnine]

I think campy is talking about the same thing I am, where there are actual typos / conversion errors that are orders of magnitude in difference. If the intake clearance had been .003 instead of .002 - that could be tolerance, but when it's .02 instead of .002, that's a typo... or an 'engrish' problem. (I'm sure you've all seen www.engrish.com) All the same I'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt. In any case, if you're not sure on a spec, double check with another manual or online.