Author Topic: '75 CB 550 Drill out the stakes? (Read 1821 times)

quidger · « **on:** October 26, 2009, 05:01:38 PM »

I'm starting to remove the bearings and I'm not sure what the "stakes" are that I am supposed to drill out of the bearing retainer. The four holes in the retainer is where I assume that the "stakes" are located. It looks to me like the four holes already have been drilled into slightly with a small bit (maybe a 1/16" bit). I'm not sure why I'm drilling out the stakes. Do they hold something in place that I can't see? Maybe you can tell from the photo what I mean by holes already being drilled.

Steve F · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:16:56 PM »

The "stakes" are where the hub and the retainer meet at the threads. They're just centerpunch marks to keep the retainer from unthreading itself, and all you have to do is use a 3/32 or up to 1/8 drill bit to drill out the displaced metal from the punch marks. You only need to drill about 1/8" deep too.

BobbyR · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:23:55 PM »

The stakes deform the threads to keep the ring from turning from vibration etc. They also prevent you from turning the ring also. You can force the ring to turn but you chew up the threads. Drill them, spray some penetratong oil an turn the ring off. You can restake when you are done or locktite.

quidger · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:48:35 PM »

Gentlemen, thanks. I'll seek more counsel later if I run into problems.

It's great that there are so many guys on this forum who have so much knowledge and are willing to share.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2009, 07:42:16 PM »

Look at the drill marks on the edge of this retainer, this is what you're going for:

That's a rear retainer from a 750 but the idea is the same.

mystic_1

quidger · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:02:37 AM »

Mystic, it looks like you drilled the holes on the outer edge of the retainer and from what the guys said in earlier posts I understood that I am supposed to drill into the centerpunch holes which are situated in the 4 holes on the retainer itself.
Now I'm a little unsure where to drill.
Also I'm not sure how it is possible to drill into the retainer without messing up the threads.
Great tool you made to unscrew the retainer.
Another thing, there is a directional arrow on the retainer. Does that indicate the direction to turn to loosen or to tighten the retainer?
Thanks.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:25:31 AM »

Just to be clear that's not my pic, I stole it from Hinz's thread here:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=47855.msg611018#msg611018

Lots of guys here have made their own bearing retainer tool.

You DO have to drill into the threads of the retainer, that's the whole point.

What's going on here is, at the factory after they had screwed in the retainer, using a special tool that engages the four holes, they then took a centerpunch, placed the tip right at the line where the threads of the retainer meet the hub, and then hammered a divot into the metal. They did this four times, resulting in four "stake marks". Doing this deformed the metal thereby locking the retainer in place so that it could not unscrew accidently. That also means it can't be unscrewed on purpose, unfortunately.

Drilling out the dents left by the punch removes the deformed metal allowing you to unscrew the retainer. You'll need a drill bit about twice the diameter of the dents, around 1/8 inch bit is about right. You need to drill through the first one or two threads only, the deformation doesn't go very deep, but better to be a little deep than a little shallow.

New retainers can still be had btw if you want to put in a new one when you're done. You should either stake the retainer into place or use loctite when reassembling.

mystic_1

MCRider · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:34:47 AM »

Quote from: quidger on October 27, 2009, 07:02:37 AM

Mystic, it looks like you drilled the holes on the outer edge of the retainer and from what the guys said in earlier posts I understood that I am supposed to drill into the centerpunch holes which are situated in the 4 holes on the retainer itself.
Now I'm a little unsure where to drill.
Also I'm not sure how it is possible to drill into the retainer without messing up the threads.
Great tool you made to unscrew the retainer.
Another thing, there is a directional arrow on the retainer. Does that indicate the direction to turn to loosen or to tighten the retainer?
Thanks.

The big fat holes you may be looking at are alternates for the removal tool. There are 4 altogether.

The stakes are much smaller and are right at the seam where the threads from the retainer and the hub meet. Yes it may seem that by drilling you are actually messing up the threads more, but you're not.

The 500/550 retainers, at least one of them, is a reverse thread. So the question of the arrow direction is still up in the air to me. All 750s have standrad directional threads, lefty loosey, righty tighty.

Gorms · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:37:13 AM »

quidger,

To clarify, your retainer is different than the one shown in that last photo. On the 550's, the threads can be seen through the holes in the retainer. The stakes are in there, one in each hole. You may have to drill a little deeper than you think because 2 or 3 threads past the depth of the stake get deformed.

Oh and yes, the REAR retainer on the 550's is a left hand thread...so opposite.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2009, 09:16:01 AM »

Good info and pics here:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=58147.0

mystic_1

quidger · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2009, 09:58:27 AM »

Guys, thanks again for all the great info. I'm ready to go at it this weekend.

CycleRanger · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:42:27 PM »

I thought about it a little differently...

I clamped two appropriately sized allen wrenches in the vise and turned the hub to unscrew the retainer.
It worked great for off and on.

MCRider · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:16:01 PM »

Smart!

CycleRanger · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:28:25 PM »

Yeah, it didn't work so well for the retainer on the wheel.
I ended up having to get the chisel after that one....
Fortunately Honda still makes that retainer ring and it's not that expensive.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:26:42 PM »

Quote from: CycleRanger on October 27, 2009, 07:28:25 PM

Fortunately Honda still makes that retainer ring and it's not that expensive.

Amen to that! On occasion I have had to resort to extreme measures to get them out, usually after someone went at it with a punch one too many times. The 750 front wheel retainer has only two shallow notches to engage with, once they're borked you have to get medieval on them.

mystic_1

CycleRanger · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2009, 08:29:43 AM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on October 27, 2009, 08:26:42 PM

Amen to that! On occasion I have had to resort to extreme measures to get them out, usually after someone went at it with a punch one too many times. The 750 front wheel retainer has only two shallow notches to engage with, once they're borked you have to get medieval on them.
mystic_1

Yeah and that ring is made of very soft aluminum!

I checked to make sure the part was still available before I got serious with it.
A buddy of mine works at a machine shop and he's making me a little tool to reinstall the new locking ring.

I have to do the bearings on the front wheel as well and I'm looking forward to that fun... $:-\$

Mod Newb · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2010, 11:56:03 AM »

I love all y'alls. If this forum didn't exist I couldn't get a damn thing done on my bike. Would have taken my wheels into a mechanic after 3 weeks of trying to get the damn bearing retainer off of one of my wheels. Now I've got them off of both wheels in 1 hour of searching and reading posts, and 15 minutes of working.

THANK YOU SOHC4 FORUM!!!

MCRider · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2010, 12:02:11 PM »

Quote from: Mod Newb on April 15, 2010, 11:56:03 AM

I love all y'alls. If this forum didn't exist I couldn't get a damn thing done on my bike. Would have taken my wheels into a mechanic after 3 weeks of trying to get the damn bearing retainer off of one of my wheels. Now I've got them off of both wheels in 1 hour of searching and reading posts, and 15 minutes of working.

THANK YOU SOHC4 FORUM!!!

You're not the only one with that sentiment. I've got a ruined hub to prove it.

CycleRanger · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2010, 12:58:39 PM »

Quote from: Mod Newb on April 15, 2010, 11:56:03 AM

I love all y'alls. If this forum didn't exist I couldn't get a damn thing done on my bike. Would have taken my wheels into a mechanic after 3 weeks of trying to get the damn bearing retainer off of one of my wheels. Now I've got them off of both wheels in 1 hour of searching and reading posts, and 15 minutes of working.

THANK YOU SOHC4 FORUM!!!

Thank YOU for taking the time to search & read rather than just lazily starting a new thread!

News:

Author Topic: '75 CB 550 Drill out the stakes? (Read 1821 times)