Author Topic: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?  (Read 2380 times)

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Offline markb

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I've got a new set of Yamiya no number pipes going on a later sandcast.  What I normally do is after the pipes are hanging on the head I put on the collar that connects them at the baffles.  Then I put the rear footpeg bolt in loose and tighten the head clamps.  Then I tighten down the footpeg bolt.  Thought everything went fine until I saw that the #1 pipe was over an 1/8" from being fully seated at the head.  I loosened the clamp and even tapped the pipe with a soft hammer (didn't like that) but it wouldn't budge.  So I started over and made sure both pipes were seated all the way on and tightened.  At that point I have over a 1/4" of misalignment at the end of the pipes (see pics).  The footpeg bolt is at opposite ends of the slotted holes in the pipes so when the pipes are not on the head I can put the bolt in and have the ends of the pipes line up.  I've heard good things about the fit of the Yamiyas so I'm getting a little frustrated.  Any suggestions?  Different procedure?  Try bending one or the other pipe?  I'm going to work on the other side and see how that goes.  Hopefully one of you will have the answer.

1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)

traveler

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 09:12:37 AM »
If everything is loose, and you still can't get the parts together......then the part was mis-bent by Yamiha..... >:(

Damn bad luck!  You have had it so long, Yamiha probably won't do anything to help.

Hate to say it, but you will probably have to buy another pipe.

~Joe

Offline markb

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2010, 09:28:23 AM »
Well, you can see by the time stamp on my first post, it only took me about 45 minutes to do the other side.  There was the normal amount of wrangling but it went pretty good.  Although the #4 didn't seat all the way down either (hmmm) but its only about 1/16" away so I think it's good.  I'm going to go back and look at it again.
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 09:29:21 AM »
I know EXACTLY what is causing this: in 2008, Honda hired a new vendor to make these pipes for us. (I'm not complaining, exactly, as we can now GET new pipes for a change...) This new vendor has shifted the little collar at the footpeg in the #2 pipe about 3mm in their jig. This causes both left side pipes to misalign.

I took my old #2 pipes and measured the collar, then ground off the offset with my trusty Dremel tool and a cutoff wheel (heavy-duty type: this is hard chrome) to match on the inside length. Then I added a shim washer beteen the pipes, where the collar is too short, to make up the difference. It brought them close enough together (side-to-side when the footpeg is tightened) to install the little rubber coupling at the back again.

Even so, the #2 pipe required a new copper donut seal in the head and #1 required a used one, to get the curve spacing to work out right. The #2 pipe is the issue: it is not curved just exactly right either, making it effectively a little longer between the head and the footpeg.

The #2 pipe in the HM341 series has always been the one that wears out first. The chain lube plugs the drain holes near the pipe-muffler joint, and they rust out right there. Because this pipe sells about 2-to-1 over the others, I suspect the original molds for this one have recently been rebuilt or replaced, causing this situation. And, none too accurately.  :-\

In the end with these pipes, it's probably best to fit them up loosely at the head first, with the rubber coupling tied in at the back and the footpeg bolted finger-tight, to discover where the misalignment is, and what to do with it. It's been about 8 months since I put them on my K2, but I think I cut 3mm off the inside of the collar, added a 1/8" thick washer between the two pipes at the footpeg, having to grind a matching angle on the offending collar to let the pipes sit together properly, and I may have 2 copper gaskets in the head at #2 exhaust port (I've forgotten that part: this was four 750s ago...).

On and off over the years, Honda has had this issue with all of the 4-pipe bikes when they contract out the parts to a new vendor. When the SOHC Fours were younger and the Honda shops worked on them, the feedback to Honda was quick and the problems got resolved pretty early. I suspect that if this info could get back to Honda somehow, they would fix the problem: they may not even know about it because shops don't work on these bikes anymore.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

traveler

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2010, 10:11:13 AM »
As always, the sage has the answer. ;)  Hard to believe anyone could know and retain so much info on a bike that went out of production 32 years ago!

I can tell you, with my 550, the stock headtubes, and MAC Mufflers requred enough "wrangling" to ruin my mood for a few hours....lot's of beating with a rubber mallet.  

These pipes are just a PITA, in my opinion. >:(

Enough, that I will make a bracket to put the bike on the lift with the pipes still on....I'm not taking them back off....no way in hell! >:(

~Joe
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 10:13:42 AM by traveler »

Offline markb

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2010, 10:17:35 AM »
Got it!
HondaMan,
Don't doubt that everything you say is true but here's what I did.
If everything is loose, and you still can't get the parts together......then the part was mis-bent by Yamiha..... >:(

Damn bad luck!  You have had it so long, Yamiha probably won't do anything to help.

Hate to say it, but you will probably have to buy another pipe.

~Joe

This got me to thinking, ...mis-bent... another pipe.  Which pipe?  So I eyeballed the foot peg bolt hole in the pipes to the hole in the frame.  The #2 pipe lined up and the #1 pipe (top one in the pic) was about a 1/4" back.  So I figured the problem was in the #1 pipe not bent enough.  So I loosened the clamp and swung it out 90 degrees so I could try to bend it (what could I lose, yeah plenty I suppose).  Swung it back down to check and it hadn't move much if at all.  So I swung it out again and really leaned into it.  Swung it down again and it was pretty close!  Close enough I wasn't going to try again.  Bottom line is I got it.  Thanks for all the input guys.
Mark
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2010, 05:02:25 PM »
Got it!
HondaMan,
Don't doubt that everything you say is true but here's what I did.
If everything is loose, and you still can't get the parts together......then the part was mis-bent by Yamiha..... >:(

Damn bad luck!  You have had it so long, Yamiha probably won't do anything to help.

Hate to say it, but you will probably have to buy another pipe.

~Joe

This got me to thinking, ...mis-bent... another pipe.  Which pipe?  So I eyeballed the foot peg bolt hole in the pipes to the hole in the frame.  The #2 pipe lined up and the #1 pipe (top one in the pic) was about a 1/4" back.  So I figured the problem was in the #1 pipe not bent enough.  So I loosened the clamp and swung it out 90 degrees so I could try to bend it (what could I lose, yeah plenty I suppose).  Swung it back down to check and it hadn't move much if at all.  So I swung it out again and really leaned into it.  Swung it down again and it was pretty close!  Close enough I wasn't going to try again.  Bottom line is I got it.  Thanks for all the input guys.
Mark

I'm not understanding: what did you bend? The muffler on the #1 pipe?  ???
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline markb

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2010, 05:06:20 PM »
No, the pipe between the head and the muffler.
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Problem getting left side pipes on CB750 - Help! Any suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 09:40:55 PM »
No, the pipe between the head and the muffler.

Wow, I hope I never meet YOU in a dark alley!  :o  ;D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com