Author Topic: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)  (Read 7912 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tugboat

  • Puppet
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,778
  • '75 CB750K + '67 CL90 + '71 CT90
    • PseudoMoto
Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« on: April 23, 2010, 02:54:36 PM »
Last weekend I took my 750 out on a trip to Memphis with some friends. They were riding a cb450, cb500t & kz400. Another friend was on a custom-built Harley. All bikes were running great & the weather couldn't have been nicer. About 2/3 of the way there, having never really opened it up all the way, I decided to see what my 750 can do. A 4-lane country highway, no traffic in either direction & flat - perfect. Once I hit about 95mph, I noticed that if I let off the throttle a bit, it didn’t slow the engine. Yikes.

Some background: the PO had installed right-hand controls that had a pull cable only, no push cable. Also the kill switch is inoperable. Both of these things were on my list to fix, just hadn’t gotten to them yet.

So here I am, screaming down the road and unable to slow down. I know I’ve gotta kill the engine using the key, and I know I’ve gotta pull the clutch at pretty much the same time to keep the back wheel from locking up or otherwise getting all wonky on me. Deep breath, pull the clutch with my left hand, turn the key with my right.

Didn’t time it exactly right. When I pulled the clutch, of course the RPM’s shot up like a rocket. I wasn’t looking, but I’m betting 11k+ easy. There’s a loud backfire and some smoke, but as I coast to the side of the road I’m thankful just to be safe. I thought that I’d busted a throttle cable or something, but it turns out that I had just pulled it too open and it had stuck there. It returned to closed when I pushed on the throttle stop.

I waited a while, then fired it up and was surprised that it started pretty easily. As I pulled away though, I immediately recognized that I was running on only three cylinders, and there was a tapping sound coming from my engine. My friends were all nice enough to ride with me the 30+ miles into the next little town @ 45 mph the whole way, with that sound in my engine getting louder and louder. I kept the RPM’s under 3k hoping to minimize the damage. Stayed the night at a hotel in Crump, TN (if you’re ever stuck there, check out the local watering hole Big Daddy’s for some cheap booze) and when I fired it up the next morning it was basically running on two cylinders and sounded horrible. I’m thinking I at least bent a valve when it redlined, but between then and getting to town it looks like I pretty much f’d up another cylinder in some capacity as well.

Lessons learned:
1. Kill switches are important
2. There’s a reason why stock 750’s come with a pull AND a push cable on the throttle
3. No hot-doggin’ when you haven’t already gone through all of your bike, and especially 100+ miles away from home
4. If this ever happens again, slow down as much as possible using the brakes before attempting the kill/clutch maneuver


If it's worth doing, it's worth doing twice.

Offline cookindaddy

  • I sure love this bike!
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,153
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2010, 04:27:22 PM »
Good advice, all of it!
Sorry that you had that experience, but we are the better for your having it.
I do have both cables connected on my throttle and my kill switch works - thank goodness.
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline Spanner 1

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,092
  • CB 750 K0 ( always thought it was a K1!) + CB750K8
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2010, 04:56:38 PM »
Sorry to hear about that, Tug...... hey, that $100 motor in Eagleville sounds like an extra good deal about now !! If it comes with PD carbs, I'll buy them from you !
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 01:11:12 AM »
If you had just turned the ignition off in top gear it wouldn't have locked up, just slowed to a stop. If anyone else is running one cable and it sticks, try pushing down on the top of the carb linkage, worked for me...

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,033
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 03:28:23 AM »
yeah theres a thread here on the push pull factory set ups,,ive always kept mine ,but lightened the return spring.

Offline Grnrngr

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,722
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 02:43:12 PM »
If you had just turned the ignition off in top gear it wouldn't have locked up, just slowed to a stop.

+1...Where did you hear about the "Kill/Clutch maneuver" ? sounds wrong to me, I've turned mine off/had it die at various 50+ speeds on different bikes, never had a rear end lock. Matter of fact, the only rear lock ups I'm aware of are from rear wheel bearing or brake failures, broken/damaged axle, or a tire iron thru the spokes, and the clutch won't help you there, or the occasional tranny failure or motor that seizes due to lack of oil, and you should grab the clutch as soon as you hear or feel it start to slide. Letting the dead engine slow you down is quite effective at reducing speed, dead engine AND brakes is the best. The only reason to pull the clutch on a motor that just quit running, whether you turned it off or just ran out of gas, would be to maintain your speed in traffic if you needed to look for a hole in the traffic so you could pull over safely. Clamping the brakes on a runaway motor is not good for the brakes, and if the motor does suddenly quit while your hard on the brakes trying to slow it down, you might be in for a whole different experience. You can kind of control a rear end slide, but a locked front end never ends well. It's never good when the monkeys start beating the insides with hammers.....sorry to hear about that....
'72 CB750-K2 "PopCycle"
'73 CB750-K2 "Barney"
'77 CB750A   
'83 Virago 500 (red)
'83 Virago 500 (black)

"and so on and so on and scoobydoobydooby..oooooooshasha"  Sly Stone

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 02:51:36 PM »
Quote
+1...Where did you hear about the "Kill/Clutch maneuver" ? sounds wrong to me,

And totally unnecessary.... ;)

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline weekend_junkie

  • I bet you think I'm some
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 567
  • Member # 15859
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 02:57:59 PM »
If you had just turned the ignition off in top gear it wouldn't have locked up, just slowed to a stop. If anyone else is running one cable and it sticks, try pushing down on the top of the carb linkage, worked for me...

Mick
+2

After you get a kill switch installed and replace your bent valves, go to an open road or parking lot and practice hitting the kill switch while at speed.  I would hope that's the kind of thing that's taught in rider schools
Dan
2012 Triumph Tiger Explorer / 1981 CB900F / 2002 VFR800 / 1973 CB350F / 1973 CB350F mistake / 1976 CB360T Cafe /1976 CB200 Cafe / 1989 GL1500 w/ sidecar / 1949 IMZ w/ sidecar

Offline sangyo soichiro

  • Tuck
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,167
  • ☢ the atomic playboy ☠
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 04:59:33 PM »
Another possible option might be to turn the gas off.  If you have enough street.
1974 CB 750
1972 CB 750 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,57974.0.html
1971 CL 350 Scrambler
1966 Black Bomber
Too many others to name…
My cross country trip: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,138625.0.html

Offline Gaither

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 635
  • '77 CB550F
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 06:24:55 PM »
Tug

You, as would a lot of us, just got excited and weren't thinking quite right. Having the carbs stick at WOT, even with plenty of road, creats a panic situation - for anybody - it was a scary, unexpected situation. (Been there, done that in a Ford at about 130 with an "S" turn coming up. Thank goodness it was an Interceptor - with stock suspension, I would have had one spectacular wreck - and, yes, I was excited but was able to "dirt track" the turn.)

Under your circumstances, turning the ign sw off would have had the same effect as using a kill sw - either of which would have had the same effect as suddenly twisting the throttle to the idle position. You would simply have slowed down smoothly and fairly rapidly. You could have pulled the clutch at any time that seemed suitable to you.

Very sorry you likely have some engine damage. 'Hope it isn't too bad.

Also, very glad you were not injured.

Please let us know how you come out.



 
Gaither ('77 CB550F)

Offline fmctm1sw

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,042
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 06:41:57 PM »
Having the carbs stick at WOT, even with plenty of road, creats a panic situation - for anybody -

Preachin' to the choir...

Regards,
A Toyota Prius owner
Quote from: 754
Dude is that a tire ? or an O-ring..??

Quote from: inkscars
This is not a pod thread
This is not a #$%* on my vacuum gauges thread
This is a help or GTFO thread.

1973 CB350F
1973 CB350G
1975 CB550K
1983 GL650I
1973 CB750K3 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=92888.0)
1984 Kawasaki KLT-250 (AKA 3 wheeler of death)
1994 Honda TRX300
1999 Honda TRX250

Offline Anti-Johnny

  • 75 cb750k
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 663
  • Poser
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 07:52:00 PM »
Sorry for my ignorance, but under what conditions would using the ignition as a kill switch lock the rear wheel up?

My kill switch went dead on me after changing the handlebars. I also dont have a push cable so this story has got me a bit spooked.
www.southaustinmotorcycles.com
 Come by and wrench and have a cold one while enjoying the wide array of rides and riders in Austin!

music

Offline Gaither

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 635
  • '77 CB550F
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 08:20:06 PM »
Anti

If that is all you do, you wont have a lock-up. Turning off the kill or ign sw will treat you the same as if you just closed the throttle. She'll just begin to slow down - with no lock-up.

She just wont go til you turn the sw back on - which will likely cause a rather violent back-fire if you turn it on before you stop if you are still "draging" the engine (seen mufflers blown off of cars doing this (not my car).
Gaither ('77 CB550F)

Offline Anti-Johnny

  • 75 cb750k
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 663
  • Poser
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 08:29:58 PM »
whew. so this is true regardless of what gear i am in? looks like I have to get that cable fixed.
www.southaustinmotorcycles.com
 Come by and wrench and have a cold one while enjoying the wide array of rides and riders in Austin!

music

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 08:30:14 PM »
Sorry for my ignorance, but under what conditions would using the ignition as a kill switch lock the rear wheel up?

My kill switch went dead on me after changing the handlebars. I also dont have a push cable so this story has got me a bit spooked.

The kill switch will not lock the rear wheel....Ever run out of gas....same ending as turning off the ignition....

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Grnrngr

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,722
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2011, 08:55:15 PM »
Since your throttle system was designed to have a push cable, it would be a good idea to put one in there, but there are a whole bunch of bikes, and after market kits for yours, that are single cable systems, what you really need is a good return spring. And...if you hit the kill switch or ignition and turn it off at speed, it shouldn't backfire when you turn it back on, unless you keep the throttle open, to allowing the vacuum suck gas into the system, which will definitely explode when you add the spark. A closed throttle shouldn't let gas get sucked into the chamber. I've blown mufflers apart, and used that "procedure" to scare the bejeezus out of the car next to me. Very hard on the exhaust system, and not real good for head gaskets either. lotsa fun to see the unsuspecting "victim" jump tho..like a cannon goin off....
'72 CB750-K2 "PopCycle"
'73 CB750-K2 "Barney"
'77 CB750A   
'83 Virago 500 (red)
'83 Virago 500 (black)

"and so on and so on and scoobydoobydooby..oooooooshasha"  Sly Stone

Offline axehole54

  • Who the heck decided to call me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 315
  • #169 North
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2011, 09:22:04 PM »
Since your throttle system was designed to have a push cable, it would be a good idea to put one in there, but there are a whole bunch of bikes, and after market kits for yours, that are single cable systems, what you really need is a good return spring. And...if you hit the kill switch or ignition and turn it off at speed, it shouldn't backfire when you turn it back on, unless you keep the throttle open, to allowing the vacuum suck gas into the system, which will definitely explode when you add the spark. A closed throttle shouldn't let gas get sucked into the chamber. I've blown mufflers apart, and used that "procedure" to scare the bejeezus out of the car next to me. Very hard on the exhaust system, and not real good for head gaskets either. lotsa fun to see the unsuspecting "victim" jump tho..like a cannon goin off....
Guilty  ;D... But as for trusting the key... I had a defective ignition switch/plug this summer and sometimes the key would just freewheel and you had to get your hand behind the headlight bucket and dicker with the plug/switch to get it to work again...
73 750k, 78 750k, 69 c10, 87 r1500 (c10), 94 fzr1000

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2011, 09:44:59 PM »
If you can't shut the engine off for whatever reason, you also have your choke.  That'll radically decrease your power output.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2011, 09:51:29 PM »
If you can't shut the engine off for whatever reason, you also have your choke.  That'll radically decrease your power output.

Camelman

Or fix the friggin bike, it doesn't sound like its roadworthy......Ride a #$%* box and you will get hurt.....just saying...

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Anti-Johnny

  • 75 cb750k
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 663
  • Poser
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2011, 10:19:27 PM »
If wishes and wants were interchangeable for money I'd be driving a gold-plated DeLorean with an upgraded electrical system.

http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Nice-to-People



www.southaustinmotorcycles.com
 Come by and wrench and have a cold one while enjoying the wide array of rides and riders in Austin!

music

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2011, 10:24:56 PM »
 It is not just a return cable it is also a frame brace.. remove it and it will never handle the same..... ;)
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Anti-Johnny

  • 75 cb750k
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 663
  • Poser
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2011, 10:28:12 PM »
yikes. im double-f***ed
www.southaustinmotorcycles.com
 Come by and wrench and have a cold one while enjoying the wide array of rides and riders in Austin!

music

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2011, 11:39:57 PM »
Last year, I goosed the throttle on my BSA pulling out of the shop and it stuck wide open. Before I could think "hit kill switch (not an on/off, but rather an interrupt while pushing the button), pull clutch and brake.... my instinct was to just grab the brake before smashing into the hedge on the opposite side of the parking lot. The rear wheel spun, and I high sided and broke my thumb and collarbone. Amals don't have a "close" cable, and I just didn't think fast enough, or at least faster than my "BRAKE!" instincts.

20/20 is hindsight... given your situation, I don't know that I'd have done much different. Probably would have just turned the key off, but that's easy to say from my armchair.  ;)
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,690
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2011, 11:44:06 PM »
2. There’s a reason why stock 750’s come with a pull AND a push cable on the throttle.

Yep.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Kill Switches Are Important (and other lessons learned)
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2011, 11:54:16 PM »
If wishes and wants were interchangeable for money I'd be driving a gold-plated DeLorean with an upgraded electrical system.

http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Nice-to-People





Come on Johnny, 1missing cable; dodgey ignition switch, and no kill switch, all cheap items. That is just a recipe for disaster and poor maintenance {and judgment}. Would you ride it like that.? , it could be someones life we are talking about, keep the touchy feely stuff out of this and try common sense.....Some of the answers on this site can be completely thoughtless, i wasn't getting personal, just telling it like it is....An hour replacing those items could save his life.....

Mick
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 01:39:02 AM by Retro Rocket »
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.