Author Topic: Painting at home  (Read 2476 times)

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Objectionableone

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Painting at home
« on: January 26, 2006, 05:50:06 PM »
So I've been watching this repeat ebay auction.  The author is very skilled - he's got me believing that I could do a good job at home.  I've never painted any color that mattered and was wondering if anybody has done it and any recommendations on spray gun or other hardware etc...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4607700431&fromMakeTrack=true

 :-\

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2006, 07:00:09 PM »
Can you do this at home yes...but.

Epoxy paints take longer to dry/cure than most "rattle can" paints.  The issues are that it is IMPERATIVE, to have good personal protection.  Charcoal breathing mask and NO exposed skin or membranes (eyes). Get a paint suit. $$

Overspray is wet when it finally settles and bonds like epoxy to whatever it settles upon.  If it wafts over to your neighbors car or lawn furniture, he might not appreciate that red or purple haze that won't wash off.

A booth with some sort of air filtration is highly recommended.  Unless you like embedded bugs in your finish.  And, your air exhaust traps must collect ALL of the overspray particulates.

Also, spray painting quality depends on proper lighting.  Well lit from all angles reaps dividends in not have to repaint that missed spot.  A rotisserie or a fixture to reposition the paint subject while spraying is quite a convenience and also diminishes repainting to get those missed spots.

Temperature control shouldn't be overlooked.  Many reducers are available and selected for the temp while spraying and curing.

Match your compressor output to your gun's needs, get a water separator and filter and perhaps a pressure regulator at your gun. 

I'm looking at HVLP setups now to minimize over spray.

Only scratched the surface here, really.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline skamania19

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 07:29:52 PM »
My problem is a dust-free atmosphere. Inside, woodshop dust; outside, always windy. Got a nice, clean place you can do this?
Columbia River Gorge: Where the wind blows and the rain sucks.

Offline ProTeal55

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2006, 07:34:24 PM »
It is all in the PREP, when it comes to a quality paint job.
For the time, materials, bull$hit, to get a good paintjob, I would
start going around to local bodyshops and see who would give ya the best price..

I painted my tank myself, but it was with spraypaint  ;D
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2006, 08:10:28 PM »
TT's coments are all applicable, I've been painting cars and bikes for 25 or so years now, in my garage. I love 2K (2 pack clear over base system) but it's quite deadly as it contains cyanide, so I tend to use it sparingly. Acrylic laquer is the simplest and easiest to use, and air drys almost immediately at room temps, so you don't have to worry about bugs landing on it and sinking in after you turn the lights out to go to bed.

Beware though, most paints (and A/L in particular) hate damp humid environments and will "blush" or bubble if moist air is drawn into it during the curing process, so never spray any paint in high humidity, (over 60%) or if it's raining outside your open garage door.

I've recently bought a HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) gun and find it particularly good for spraying Acrylic Laquer, as it reduces overspray by a huge amount, thus reducing materials used and negating the requirement to respray your neighbours car. The HVLP gun isn't much good for heavier paints like enamels and 2K that require a high pressure gun, but due to the problems highlited by TT, I'm trying to stay away from those sorts of paints anyways.

If you can't afford all the spray painting gear, get a hold of an old fashioned "pump up" fly sprayer, my brother used to paint his mate's bicycles with acrylic laquer with one of these things when we were kids, and the results were surprisingly good! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

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Offline jtb

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2006, 08:32:17 PM »
I sprayed my frame, etc with a black acrylic lacquer.  Set up a collecter for moisture, pressure reg on the gun, and in spite of all my prep, it just didn't look like I wanted.  So, when I bought a paint kit from Don D, I took it and the tank, side covers, etc to a painter, and paid him to shoot it.  Turned out great. 

The valve guides on my F2 motor are shot, so while it's out of the frame, I'm getting all the black stuff I shot 2 years ago powdercoated.  I won't try to paint anything again, except maybe plain old clear lacqer on refinished furniture.
1977 CB750F
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2006, 08:41:16 PM »
I sprayed my frame, etc with a black acrylic lacquer.  Set up a collecter for moisture, pressure reg on the gun, and in spite of all my prep, it just didn't look like I wanted.  So, when I bought a paint kit from Don D, I took it and the tank, side covers, etc to a painter, and paid him to shoot it.  Turned out great. 

The valve guides on my F2 motor are shot, so while it's out of the frame, I'm getting all the black stuff I shot 2 years ago powdercoated.  I won't try to paint anything again, except maybe plain old clear lacqer on refinished furniture.

It's all in the technique John, just get a book (or a video) from your local library, and try again mate, you'll do fine. Personally though, I wouldn't use laquer on a frame, it tends to chip too much for my tastes, an enamel or 2K would be better for that.

Are you gonna fix that F2 head, or get Mike (the magician) Rieck to build a good K head for you? He's doing a nice K8 (geez, "nice" and "K8" in the same sentence, I must be getting old......) head for mine, and with the K8 inlet rubbers, you can use the F2 carbs and airbox too? Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2006, 12:23:52 AM »
Acrylic laquer is the simplest and easiest to use, and air drys almost immediately at room temps, so you don't have to worry about bugs landing on it and sinking in after you turn the lights out to go to bed.

Kalifornia banned the sale of Acrylic laquers and enamels about 10 years ago.  We can only buy or import low VOC paints here now.  I switched to the 2 part paints for a while.  But, then I lost access to a spray booth.  Limits what I paint, now, considerably.

I did buy a Hobby Air system to deal with the poisons.  Remote air pump, hose and face mask.  Probably why I'm still breathing today.

Thanks, for the report on the HVLP and heavier paints.  Heavier paints are my only option unless the water based paints have improved enough.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline mcpuffett

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2006, 01:58:24 AM »
practice makes perfect  ;)  mick.
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Objectionableone

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2006, 04:21:43 AM »
Best for me to buy the kit and take it to the painter.  Thanks for the comments.

Offline dusterdude

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2006, 09:58:20 AM »
tt,been out of the paint game for about 14 months now,but when i left ppg had just come out with a water based paint system,you oughta take a look at it and let us know what you think.
mark
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Offline ofreen

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2006, 10:32:54 AM »
Lately, I've been using PPG DCC acrylic urethane with a hardener.  Underneath I use PPG DP50LF epoxy primer.  Match the reducer to temps and they are forgiving.  Quick curing and a nice, durable finish.  Like others have said, you don't want to suck any of this stuff up, as it is nasty and will mess you up in ways that aren't immediately apparent, so protect yourself.
Greg
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Offline heffay

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2006, 11:09:03 AM »
i remember a few months back, someone on this site rattle canned their bike with amazing results... did that thread disappear?  i can't find it.

also, i rattle canned my cbr600f2 in the late 90s in my spare bedroom... perhaps that's why it was spare  ??? 8)

sand, sand, sand, then do some more sanding... every once in a while inbetween sanding... you get to paint!

make sure all your types of coatings are compatible OR ELSE.

I had a pretty good quality paint job when i was finished... prep is the key!

also, if you don't have a rotiserrie you can "string up" your parts from the ceiling somehow.  i used a coat hanger thru the brackets.  this allows the piece to be at eye level and also allows you to get to all different angles (usually)

take your time... many thin coats is far better. 

don't get me wrong... i don't recommend the rattle can over anything else... but, if it's what you can afford... it is a viable option
Today: '73 cb350f, '96 Ducati 900 Supersport
Past Rides: '72 tc125, '94 cbr600f2, '76 rd400, '89 ex500, '93 KTM-125exc, '92 zx7r, '93 Banshee, '83 ATC250R, 77/75 cb400f

Offline clarkjh

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2006, 11:31:33 AM »
This is a rattle can job. ;D  Primer, paint and clear where all shaken not stirred. 8)

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ElCheapo

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2006, 12:09:02 PM »
In the right environment I believe it can be done. You guys are not far off on the prep thing. Prep is damn close to all of the magic. And yes rattle cans can make a respectable paint job. I have used Black Lacquer "Specialty" from Rustoleum, this stuff is like magic. But when doing darker colors spend LOTS of time in prep. There was a trick we used to use and I am sure Terry has done this.

This is after body work and first coat primer have been done...

1. Spray "Speckle" the entire bugger. You do not want to cover just give it a good specking.
2. Now lightly sand with 400 or your favorite pre color grit. You want to skim it and not attempt to remove any low spots with the specking.

As you do this your minor dents will show up very easily. I use a 3M 400 sanding sponge with light pressure.

This trick takes only a little skill to learn, but when it does, it is well worth it.

Usually I do 600 before the color coat after I do the dent find.

I have to paint some stuff this spring when we get a nice HOT day. I will go through the mess with you in pics on another thread. I will start with a tank that has two bugger dents and probably mis-matched side covers with a rear cowl also. This trick makes more sense when you see it in action.

I will be using the "House of Kolor" rattle can method exclusively. You have to remember when using rattle cans, DONT CHEAT. Use thier primer and all of thier prep stuff. This makes the situation more a controlled atmosphere. I have yet to choose a Kolor, but it will be in the Kandy paints.

ElCheapo

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2006, 12:20:17 PM »

It's all in the technique John, just get a book (or a video) from your local library, and try again mate, you'll do fine. Personally though, I wouldn't use laquer on a frame, it tends to chip too much for my tastes, an enamel or 2K would be better for that.

Are you gonna fix that F2 head, or get Mike (the magician) Rieck to build a good K head for you? He's doing a nice K8 (geez, "nice" and "K8" in the same sentence, I must be getting old......) head for mine, and with the K8 inlet rubbers, you can use the F2 carbs and airbox too? Cheers, Terry. ;D

VERY TRUE

Read, READ, READ..I am going to get a book I saw a few months back. It was basically how to do flames and paint on anything. I think it was a Pop Mech book. Not too sure. Know that nothing is set in stone, except kill the neighbor who sprays silicone to lube everything.

I have been mid way down an absolutely perfect paint job and the neighbor three doors down sprays his silicone, and all is lost. More fish eyes than I can count. Last time I went over, took his can of silicone out of his hand and gave him a can of WD in trade.

A bit lost but he understood.

The only down side of laquer... Yep she does chip a bit. But when you freshly get her, BAMO it IS MAGIC.  ;D ;D Part of the trick is to remember that enamel dries with a chemical reaction and laquer with a atmosphere (air) drying action.

Hey Terry I may have a head for you (complete). I know, I am way behind in shipping stuff to you. But anyway, if I get all my stuff straight you'll have everything before it gets chilly on your side of the ball. I can produce the numbers from it and you can decide if it is the right head for you.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2006, 01:16:29 PM »
All good advice Tom, and yeah, the light mist coat of a contrasting color to find the low spots is called "Color sanding", and is best done with a flat sanding block, as the flexible blocks tend to follow the contours. It's also great for finding all the nicks and deep scratches from sanding, particularly if anyone is dumb enough to use a disc sander on anything motorcycle-related, a definate "no-no".

I'm ok for a head Tom, Mike has a nice K8 head that he's "reconditioning" for me, I've got 2 or 3 in my garage, but it wasn't worth sending them to Mike, the shipping would be worth more than the price of the head. Thanks anyway partner! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Lumbee

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2006, 01:55:11 PM »
...well, heres my 2 cents...I followed this article to a T...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/harley_paintin.htm

and this was the result.  Not bad for about $30 in supplies...and I can say I did it myself!!!   ;D
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2006, 02:05:37 PM »
Just curious, specifically what color, er shade of red, is that? Monitors and lighting seem to give it two different looks.

Very nice job by the way.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline Lumbee

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2006, 03:19:44 PM »
...Dupli Color T152W Bright Red   ???  $3.50 at autozone...
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Offline heffay

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2006, 03:34:36 PM »
YES!  that's it... it was the great lumbee who i was referring to... hey bee?  what did your name used to bee?
Today: '73 cb350f, '96 Ducati 900 Supersport
Past Rides: '72 tc125, '94 cbr600f2, '76 rd400, '89 ex500, '93 KTM-125exc, '92 zx7r, '93 Banshee, '83 ATC250R, 77/75 cb400f

Offline Lumbee

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Re: Painting at home
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2006, 05:03:07 PM »
used to be Radigga...
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