Topic: Cutting up Classics

[clip]

I like to follow the builds over in the project portion of the board and saw some comments regarding guys cutting up these classic bikes to build "bobbers" choppers and cafe racers and just had to finally sign up for my two cents on the subject. First, let me say that yes, it is your bike and your money and you can do anything you want to it. I restore these bikes and I actually did one for a guy at extreme expense and he took it and actually ran it off a cliff on a TV program just to watch it get destroyed. It's how he got his cookies.

Anyway, I know there are many like me who don't understand how these guys can chop these bikes up and do the things they do to them. It really saddens me when they turn them into something you don't even recognize and the brag about how nice it turned out or "ain't it great" and so on. I have learned from working on these bikes that for the most part, but not always, thiese guys are not in the age group of 50-70 like myself. The young guys don't appreciate how hard it is to find parts for restoration of the CB750's and don't look at them like a lot of us who like them the way they came off the showroom floor. It's sad, but there is nothing you can do about it.
Another pet peeve of mine is when they show up with a hurt motor and claim "I don't understand it" I don't redline it that often or "I wasn't running it that hard...only 100mph" thats all. They just don't seem to understand the metals of the 60's and 70's were not the metals of today and they are OLD and the metals are fatigued and just don't withstand having the guts run out of them.

Ih have a hard time with it too, but one way to look at it is the guys cutting them up are driving the value of survivors and the parts. This is not good for those trying to buy one, but good for a guy sitting on a bunch of parts or bikes. The bottom line is different strokes for different folks, but I'll take my bikes stock.

[scottly]

Hmm, where to start?
In a lot of these cases, it would cost a lot more money than some of these folks could afford to do a restoration. Also, a lot these people sell what original parts they chose not to use so people like you can do your "numbers correct" restorations. At least they are getting them back on the road, and the more of these old bikes there are, the greater incentive for parts suppliers to meet the demand.

Some of the bikes these "kids" have put together look better than the way they came from Honda, at least in my opinion...

Lastly, you restore a bike for someone that runs it off a cliff and you dare to criticize someone for customizing a classic in a creative fashion?  

[dhall57]

I agree with you clip. It seems like the guys doing alot of the demolition of the stockers are the younger fellows not the older guys like us 50 years and up. I guess the main thing with us middle age guys and beyond is that we actually grew up with these bikes and saw them sitting new on the dealership floor. We know what great bikes they were and still are and we know there place in  motorcycle history. These SOHC 4's made motorcycling what it is today. We look at these classic bikes almost as if there flesh and blood not just a hunk of metal, nuts, and bolts like the younger group does. And I guess we shouldn't really expect them to see these bikes in the same light as we do. Why should they, we've been there from the start they haven't.

dhall

[73nancy]

i in the age group of the people that chop up bikes for fun. im only 20 years old and finishing up my k1 750 cafe. im a restoration major in college and work mainly on old cars. i hate to see a all orginal steel 30's car choped 6 inchs to make a rat rod. same with bikes i dont like to see something nice chopped up. i think most of us on the forum appriate the old hondas in stock forum. that is why you see most of us take a old beat up bike in not good shape and do a custom build on that. my bike was hacked when i got it. the rear fender which was really nice i sold it to someone who needed one instead of chopping it up. i feel it depends on the bike to weather restore it or not. my bike has only one thing that i modded on the from and that is the fender brace which i kept just in case down the road it want to put it back. but i totally agree if you have a nice survivor bike restore it not customize it. i think most people will agree that a $200 bike of craigslist usally is a good candiate for a build. 
ps. orginal bikes are just as badd a$$ as custom bikes. i will have a orginal cb750 k1 after i finish my build..

[Ryan6838]

I'm with scottly. We make the bikes into what we want them to be. Its 2 sides of the coin. do you also hate everyone that raced the bikes and help build there name? Some people want there youth back and the old days. Younger people don't leave anything stock first thing we do is make things the way we want them. The bikes are alive for people to enjoy. It the great thing about our free nation. You should be happy people like the nastalgia. People have been building these bikes for years dont just blame young people. Some like stock, some like custom but we all love old hondas. I like customs but that dont mean every one has to be custom. Everyone has what they like.

[moham]

ahem...

one point made (in a previous, non-consnesus-forming thread dealing with this very subject) I think is salient: namely, why did all (ok, not all) the 50-70 age group guys that had these bikes originally let them sit unattended in a cornfield for 25 years before some younger (I'm assuming here) guys forked over $50 and brought them back to life?

I appreciate the enthusiasm/nostalgia of original owners, but let's be honest. There were Millions of these bikes produced and there are still a Ton of them around. A vast majority of parts are not at all hard to find and the ones that are rare are coveted nightly on ebay.

I don't think too many old-timers were scratching their heads and kicking the dirt when kids were pulling old Fords, etc out of barns in the 50s for street rod treatment. Well, maybe a couple were...

fast forward a bit and think now how many Chevy celebrities and impalas are littering the landscape now and it makes me wonder if any of us will be nostalgic for them in 30 years?

[cameron]

For the record, I got mine 9 years ago, at age 25, and have since done my very best to keep it bone stock.
On the outside, that is.



Except the air filters

[laser145]

I agree with 73Nancy

A lot of the bikes you see cafe'ed are the ones that were pulled out of junk piles or were found rotting away in a yard... IMO most people that find a stock bike in decent shape keep it that way...even if it's just to sell it.

I like to customize bikes, but if I were to come across something bone stock, I would sell it to fund a beat up bike to cafe...

I don't think there are too many (I know some do) that will spend the money to purchase a nice stock bike just to cut it up.

[Grnrngr]

Hey Clip! Welcome to the club!!   There've been a few discussions here about that, it happens on every board that deals with "antiques" or "vintage" stuff. I like old rifles, and you should hear some of those old guys b#$%h about how some dip#$%* refinished his antique rifle and "destroyed it's value". Well, "value" is relative and as you observed, the fewer originals that are around, the higher the prices go for originals. To a collector, "modification" (which includes CLEANING in the antique world)) of any sort is a sin, but to an owner, it is irrelevant, some folks like antiques but don't want them to look like a crusty POS. A great many of these bikes haven't been "original" for a very long time, lots of folks modded them not long after purchase, and quite a few of the ones on this site are built from parts, wrecked, or incomplete bikes anyway. I really don't think there is a lot of "chopping up" of original vintage bikes going on, and in terms of being "Original", a restored bike is not really any different than a bobber or chop, "Classic" is just another style. I like bikes and can see the effort (and MONEY) it takes to create a thing of beauty, whether it is a restoration or a customized build. I think you are correct in thinking younger folks don't realize that metal technology has improved over the last half century. In fact, I'll go one better and say that most people, regardless of age, tend to think of "metal" as hard stuff that hasn't changed much since the bronze age, people tend think forward (how can I improve this?) rather than looking back at how things have improved over time, those who study history have a very different perspective than those who actually lived thru it. Hope you don't think I'm bashing you, I'm not. Get out there and restore some beautiful bikes, just don't bash the folks that see beauty differently. Again, welcome to the club...and post some pics!! I don't think I'd be too far off if I said most folks here like good looking bikes regardless of "style"...

[motocyconomad]

I love my bike she is old. I rode her stock for a long time, nowadays I am all for upgrades that make the bike run better and be longer lasting. Do I change out the old stock stuff that has see years of outdoor living in seattle and south carolina  hell yes!  ...BUT    I keep all the old stuff and I would never dare cut stuff off the frame that would make it impossible to put all back to stock if I want to someday.

People wanna chop or bob it they should just make a new frame from scratch set the old #$%* off to the side stored away safe for people that need it
chop wrecked/bent frames

age is just how old you got (anyone can get misguided)

embrace modernization, respect restoration    (or the potential)   

that's what I think....
good topic I was wondering if anyone was addressing this

no more people riding off cliffs ok?!!

[333]

Well, I'm going to try to agree with both sides.  Some of these bikes have seen much better day when we rescue them.  I've seen them with so much rusted chrome and tanks, the cheapest thing to do is to chop 'em.  And in those cases, I say, have at it.  That's one less person bidding against me for that perfect fender on fleabay.

On the other hand, if you chop one that only needs a little spit and polish, and I'll ream you for it.

As for the "old timers" comment, I doubt seriously that any serious rider has let anything sit for 25 years.  That was done by posers.  Posers have always been around.  They are not a new thing.  And your numbers are a bit off.  "Millions"?  More like hundreds of thousands.  And comparing bikes to cars is a bit wrong as well.  Only 3% of the U.S. population owns motorcycles(including off road and ATVs).  Car ownership is a little higher.

[Ryan6838]

Yeah I would never take a nice old bike to chop. My cafe was falling apart and when i start a bobber itll be a crap basket case.

[motocyconomad]

Yeah I would never take a nice old bike to chop. My cafe was falling apart and when i start a bobber itll be a crap basket case.

+1

[MickeyX]

I was pretty sure it was guys like Dick Mann who inspired a lot of today's mods on these bikes. Winning the Daytona 200 was a big day for Honda back then and helped build the following of these bikes. I could be wrong, but that was done around 30 years ago. Why lay it all on the current 20 somethings? People do what they like, what they can afford, what they can manage to salvage and for what purpose their bike will be used. Simple.





I like bikes. I tend to like the factory look more but I can appreciate the work it takes to change something up, get creative and make it look like a different bike. I think it's a tribute to all of these bikes that they can be modded to hell and back and still kick ass and make heads turn after all these years. Either way, it's more of these bikes on the road no matter what 'hairstyle' the bike (or rider) is now sporting. (I personally don't miss the pork chop look y'all had going on back then. Damn. Just damn.  )

[moham]

As for the "old timers" comment, I doubt seriously that any serious rider has let anything sit for 25 years.  That was done by posers.  Posers have always been around.  They are not a new thing.  

Must be nice to know who is genuine and who is insincere...

And your numbers are a bit off.  "Millions"?  More like hundreds of thousands.  

I capitalized Millions for dramatic effect, but you're right only Half a Million were made...

[bjb87gta]

I have to agree to at least one or more points in every post so far.

I am on the restoration side of things, and have been blessed with the ability to do everything to my projects as far as painting, electrical, and mechanical myself. I have never built a cafe or bobber type bike, but appreciate anything that has been customized as long as I can still tell what it is, and it looks similar to what it started out as when new. I am getting to the end of a complete restore / refurbish of a 4800 mile 76 CB750F that I got away from a friend of mine who planned on chopping it up. He seen it the other day, and is now glad he didn't cut it up.

Now on the other side of the coin, I aquired a 74 CB750 for $300 last week on CL that if I decide to do the same to as my F, will need a $300 seat that is missing, a correct $1100 4 into 4 exhaust system, a wiring harness and assorted electrical components that will cost around $100 used, and a $75 headlight assembly that was removed for a Windjammer fairing. Along with everything else that is wore out, broken, bent, or rusted beyond using, is it feasible to restore this bike, or would it be a canadite for a cafe project?

It all comes down to money, time, desire, ability, and a vision of the bikes owner. I know one thing that will not happen to the bike though...It will not get torn apart and sold piece by piece on ebay.

[scottly]

Does it bother anyone else that this guy pimps out an expensively restored bike for a CB "snuff film", and then rags on anyone who modifies an old bike to suit their tastes?

[Ryan6838]

Yes he made a buck there so he was happy.

[Don R]

  They all have their place, it would be a shame to hack a cherry K0 for a chopper, if it was a nice complete restorable bike, I did but mine was found outdoors grown into a tree. Just due to economics, there are parted out frames all over (at least in my garage) But it would also be a shame to spend multi thousands on a rusty frame to restore it to original when there are more complete bikes available. We aren't to the point where people are building an old 750 starting with an oil stain on the ground.
 I have a friend who cut up his new harley, left raw welds and flat black paint, he made a rat bike. OK, but now he wants to trade it in on a bagger and guess what? No dealer wants to give him anything for it. He did what he wanted, Waah,
 I got a 40 chevy coupe saved twice from the junkyard, after I made a street rod the antique guys were crying crocodile tears about what I did to it. Hell, it's been a hot rod since 58, In 73 I just saved it from the crusher, none of those guys would have wanted it for free.
 It just depends on your point of view.  forgive my ramble

[markac]

I love the stock look of the sohc's. All of them until about 77, then I have some reservations. But that is my personal BS. I have a 72 almost restored to stock, except for few parts, and she'll get there. I found out that the 1st owner (the bike only had 3 me including) had a vetter fairing, custom bars, crash guards, king queen seat and saddle bags added to the bike before it even left the showroom.

I personally love vinage aftermarket or racing parts that were made for these bikes. Especially british made rickman frames, dresda swing arms, boranni rims etc. I will make a 'custom' bike someday for my own pleasure hopefully incorporating some of the vintage stuff.

I think the question here is about what you value more, the bike and its history or your own creativity and freedom to enjoy the 'build'. None is paramount over the other, even though some will try hard to change argue to the contrary.

[Highwayhigh]

I know that currently the biggest trend I've seen is guys taking these old bikes and turning them into cafe racers, me included. But I think that sets it apart from your average "chop and customize" gig. We are turning our vintage bikes, into a very period correct vintage culture. Cafe racers were a stronghold of the motorcycling culture during the 60's and 70's. I love having my bike look old. I mean, not ratty and torn up, but you can obviously tell the bike has age and personality. I also love the cafe racer culture and the idea of it all. I want to make my bike fill a mold it would have very well filled 30 years ago.

Now when it comes to full blown chopping, I get a little leary. Like modern sport bike forks and swing arms, fuel injection, and any other extreme mods I forgot. I just think with a lot of this you are taking away the age of the bike, and that is the best part. I love having a motorcycle older than me, and feeling it's bones creak a bit when I'm zipping around town. I like the finicky carbs that I usually tear apart every month. I love the personality the bike has. The history. All of these things are extremely important to me and I would never compromise that in the vain of modifications. Oh, and I'm 23 years old. So I'm still a young buck, but I think it's impressive in and of itself that a long of the younger generation are getting into this stuff. Most of my generation ride crotch rockets and that's the only thing they know.

[Sporkfly]

My bike isn't pretty, I am willing to admit this. It's made to work, that's it. It's ugly. It's loud. It gets me from point A to point B. I love the thing. It didn't run when it came into my possession, it was missing a seat, both side covers, the gas tank was falling apart, it had mini ape-hangers, the pipes were rotted, the air box was missing completely, none of the electrics worked, the brakes were shot from MC down to the caliper (the pressure brake switch didn't even work), one of the coils was shot...

You get the picture here. It's not a stock bike, of course it isn't. It's my daily driver. It was put together on a very limited budget.

I own a '79 GL1000 that I inherited. It had a single owner, my great uncle. It's a survivor bike in the truest sense. He loved that bike. It's in beautiful condition. It sat for a number of years during the time period that he couldn't ride it. I'm restoring it, fairing, bags and all, to its former glory. The way he loved it. I don't think it's the most attractive thing in that form, but it's a Honda, it's classic touring and it's my great uncle's bike and I wouldn't put it to any other form than what he rode it in.

It's not just about cutting things up or customizing... It's largely about working with what you have to start and your budget. At least for me.

[dhall57]

I think this debate started some threads ago about another member doing just general maintenance and some repair and telling us what a great bike this still original stocker 750 was and how it took him on a 3k trip and the only thing it needed during this was some chain lube. Not bad for a 34 year old bike wouldn't you say. And than the next thing we see are parts being removed and sold on ebay, fenders being cut etc. For the true die hard fans of these surviving stockers our jaws  dropped and all we could think was - WHY? These bikes were designed 40 years ago and if someone doesn't like the 70's technology than he or she should buy a new more modern bike that meets there needs and riding style. Again I'm talking about the surviving original stockers not the $100 barn bikes that need complete top to bottom rebuilds. Don't try to make these original bikes into something Mr. Honda never intended them to be. No hate or blame toward anybody young or old. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Fritz]

Last night, I've been cycling home through town and had to stop at a corner where I saw a beautiful CB350F in silver and very good original condition parking on the sidewalk.
I was quite excited, and I do not account that to the two or three beers that I had enjoyed before (that's why I was on my bicycle ). You don't see these bikes very often. If there were dozens or hundrets of them around, I would not even have noticed this one.
Imagine that every single Model T had been saved and restored. How boring would that be? I think that we should be greatful that there are so many Fours still out there and that there's such a large community who is taking enough care to preserve them in stock condition.
To me those guys who mod, chop and ride them just show that these 40 year old bikes are still fun and should be out on the roads and not caged into private museums. They are still part of a living culture...

[Gonzowerke]

I can see where you are coming from, HOWEVER...

To each his/her own! I have 2 non-stock CB750's, and they are that way due to myself and previous owner's, and they are going even further from stock as we speak. This is what I want to do. Sure, it would be nice to have a stock K to keep that way, but My budget and taste is more suited to a badass, stripped down, spraycan black ratbike of a 750! Some people like Carpy's attempts at re-living 60's cafe culture, some people like having something you could put in the Motor Heritage Museum. It all comes down to people having different ideas outside of our personal comfort zones.

Change is fearsome to those of us in love with old machinery!

This being said, I would NEVER get my hands on a stocker and cafe it. Both of my bikes were already modded when I got ahold of 'em. Now THAT is a travesty.

If any NOOBS have a stocker and want to mod it, PM me first! I may have a trade for you!