Author Topic: another ex500 post... gas in the oil (Read 8644 times)

heffay · « **on:** January 28, 2006, 05:48:59 PM »

and not just a wee bit... finally got around to working on the bike... there was nearly 2 GALLONS of fluid in the crankcase. some of that was oil... most was gas.

the bike uses the diaphragm style carbs. a friend says if the diaphragm goes... it may just start dumping fuel into the cylinders even if it is sitting... the bike sat for quite some time. when i saw all the gas and oil gushing out of the crankcase when i drained it all i could think was "hole in the piston".

if i had a compression tester, i'd have a better idea. but, my compression tester has only standard adapters and not metric.

so, should i check the carbs see if the phragms are ok then if all is well just run it? see if it continues to dump fuel? or should i assume the worst and not try to run the bike and cause further damage... we actually had the bike running when we purchased it... granted it ran horribly but, we can understand why.

all input would be appreciated.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2006, 06:55:42 PM »

OK ok, start at the begining and tell me what an ex500 is

heffay · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2006, 06:58:42 PM »

google I say... google

come on sammy... i know you can help me with this one... or at least post another ridiculous comment

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2006, 08:00:28 PM »

Sorry pal, you have lost me on the motor but whatever it is, it may not have holed pistons.
If your carbs are flooding fuel into the cylinders it will get past the rings at the ring gap.
I have never had anything to do with vacum carbs so can't coment, other than check the diaphragms.
Is there anything in FAQ about these carbs in general.
Good luck Sam.

Gordon · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2006, 01:18:54 PM »

Quote from: heffay on January 28, 2006, 05:48:59 PM

so, should i check the carbs see if the phragms are ok then if all is well just run it? see if it continues to dump fuel?

Okay, I'll chime in!

That's what I would do, but that's coming from someone who's never dealt with diaphragm carbs. If they seem fine, run the bike for a while and then check the oil to see if you're getting gas in it again. Like Sam said, if fuel overflowed into the cylinders, it would just run down through the ring gaps, so I wouldn't automatically assume a holed piston. Try it out and see what happens, just remember to smell the oil frequently.

cb650 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2006, 01:41:59 PM »

Stuck float. The cv carbs still have floats. EX was a kow wasnt it?

Terry

heffay · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2006, 03:10:40 PM »

yep... upon further thought... after i was thinking a little more clearly

the stuck float hit me this morning. i sure hope that's all it is and i'd almost be willing to put some money on it. it really is the most logical.

bike sat for a year, stuck a float, an intake valve could've been open, the gas was probably left on... voila, gas in the oil

if there was a hole in the piston... i think it would've been running so bad for the PO that he wouldn't have been able to ride it long enough for over a gallon of fuel to end up in the crankcase... don't ya think

also, the diaphragm idea is not possible now that i think about it...

all the diaphragm does is sit at the top of the slide... when pressure builds from turning the throttle and allowing air flow thru the carb body... the pressure pushes the phragm up thus taking the slide with it... it does not specifically let fuel thru... the needle does that... basically the phragm serves the same purpose that a cable linkage does... if i can get a schematic i'll post it just so you guys can really see what i'm talking about.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2006, 03:50:37 PM »

Well, It's got nothing to do with your CV carb diaphrams, your mate may have been referring to vacuum operated petcocks which, if the diaphram is damaged, can flood carbs.

Most CV carbs don't have drains like proper slide carbs, so the fuel will run into your engine, or out of your airbox when the float valves eventually become overwhelmed by the amount of fuel trying to make it's way in, which is another good reason to turn your fuel off.

Even with slide carbs with drains this can happen, if the drain tubes become clogged. Don't try to start it, the gas has already washed the lubricant off all your bearings and gears, so while it may not actually explode, it's gonna ruin your whole engine and gearbox if you're silly enough to try to start it.

Dump your oil and filter, (the oily gas mix makes a very good weed killer) and let all the gas drain/evaporate before refilling it with nice fresh oil And look on the bright side, at least the engine will be nice and clean now that you've "degreased" it's internals, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

heffay · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2006, 04:22:39 PM »

thanks terry... i let it sit for about 2-3 hours before i put new oil in it... was gonna run a compression test and needed oil in it... then realized my guage doesn't fit

do you think that's enuf time or should i redrain my new oil and lit it sit longer

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2006, 04:30:58 PM »

Quote

(the oily gas mix makes a very good weed killer)

Terry,

Sorry to say we will have to take back your merit badge for being environmentally conscientious recycler.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2006, 05:02:20 PM »

Quote from: heffay on January 29, 2006, 04:22:39 PM

thanks terry... i let it sit for about 2-3 hours before i put new oil in it... was gonna run a compression test and needed oil in it... then realized my guage doesn't fit

do you think that's enuf time or should i redrain my new oil and lit it sit longer

That should be fine Heff, but I'd do another oil change in the near future, just to be sure. Oil is a lot cheaper than engine parts.

Quote from: Bob Wessner on January 29, 2006, 04:30:58 PM

Quote
(the oily gas mix makes a very good weed killer)

Terry,

Sorry to say we will have to take back your merit badge for being environmentally conscious recycler.

What f*cking badge? I didn't know I had one of them, geez, I hope I didn't accidentally drop it in my incinerator when I was burning them old paint cans and dog poo?

mrbreeze · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2006, 05:31:22 PM »

My boss works on bikes on the side at the tranny shop I work at. He had Yamaha something or other twin cyl. newer model crotch rocket a month or so back.He had me change the oil in it for him after he found the air box half full of gas.When I dropped the oil,it was like you just said... a little bit of oil in the gas!! I will ask him what he found but I don't think it was a bad diaphram. It was more like the owner left the petcock on all the time. I'll ask him tomorrow at work and make sure. Anyhow, all we did was change oil & filter and put new air filter in and all was well.

heffay · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2006, 05:43:25 PM »

let's just say... i'm in a much better mood than i was yesterday!

and so is elizabeth... considering i was worst casing it at hundreds of dollars... course, i guess worst case is still hundreds of dollars

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2006, 06:08:34 PM »

Well young Heff, I'm still waiting for your explanation of what a ex500 is (not taking the piss)

dusterdude · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2006, 06:22:19 PM »

Quote from: samcr750 on January 29, 2006, 06:08:34 PM

Well young Heff, I'm still waiting for your explanation of what a ex500 is (not taking the piss)

me too

heffay · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2006, 06:25:22 PM »

this is identical to the one i had that moved with me to MMI... although mine had a lower chin fairing
elizabeths is virtually the same although it is an 87 (first year of production) and where the one you see is gold and black... hers is red and black
we purchased it because she is so small... 5'4" and tiptoes on her vfr800... she doesn't want to sell the vfr but, just wanted to get something smaller

they are a twin can 8 valve engine... virtually the same engine as the gpz900 cut in half
6 speed
about 50 horsies
great all around bike if you ask me and great for beginners

dusterdude · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2006, 06:26:14 PM »

groovy

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2006, 06:51:38 PM »

The reason you lost me on that is, in the UK it was called a GPZ500.

It won't have a holed piston if the guy said it was running, if he ran it with a holed piston, it would have no oil in it at all.

Sam.

heffay · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2006, 07:11:29 PM »

sorry sam... i fogot you guys across the pond give things funny names

thanks for the info too... i actually ran it when i got there not knowing it had all that #$%* in the crankcase $:-\$

(would've never done that had i known... obviously, it was not as stated in the auction but, i didn't see why i couldn't get it running better and he did drop the price from our final winning bid)

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2006, 07:23:41 PM »

Its a nice looking bike Heff, My son bought one after he passed his test, for what it was I thought it was quite quick and a nice bike to ride.
Hope you get it sorted and have fun with it.

Sam.

cb650 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2006, 04:36:31 AM »

The bad guy in True Lies (Arnold movie) stole drove drowned one.

Terry

heffay · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2006, 11:04:07 AM »

i remember that... mainly because when i first saw the movie, i had mine

heffay · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2006, 11:09:08 AM »

gonna go play with some sticky carbs

... in 40 degree weather. yay! but, at least it's sunny

heffay · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2006, 02:33:37 PM »

lunch time! carbs don't look horrible... but, then, they have been getting cleaned by GAS. they are cleaned and back together. man, that gas coming out of the tank looks nasty tho! i hate it when people let bikes sit to rot.

got the new pipes via fedex today too!

hopefully bike will be running by nitefall

BMan1113VR · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:19:11 PM »

Hey heffay,

Fellow ex500 owner here (well 2006 Ninja 500R

), who just bought Matt Clark's 77 CB550F (the smoker with the retrofited vance&hines). I am not to familiar with your problem, but the people at http://www.ex500riders.com , will be able to help for sure. Great resource for the little devil.

-Andrew

heffay · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:47:59 AM »

yesterday (easter) we rode her vfr800 and ex500 from boulder to colorado springs (and back)... the resurrected 500 runs like a champ! pulls hard from 2k all the way to 9k... never took it over that. she even had it up to 105, i saw 115 on the speedo and it still had some.

it sounds amazing and i do believe it runs better than my 89 EX i used to have.

so, after driving to chicago and back, picking the bike up in 20 degree weather in joliet at 3am and hauling it back to colorado... it RUNS!

oh yeah, there was the:

1+ gallon of gas in the crankcase
flooding carb (replaced the carb bank)
about 7 or 8 carb r and r's to get the right jetting
new headers (to replace the old ones with the crossover removed)
petcock rebuild kit
uni air filter
chain
front and rear sprockets
BRG smog caps
surachus
battery
carb rebuild kits
exhaust gaskets
stickers
and LOTS OF BEER

oh, and of course the 4 months of wrenching in cold weather to figure it all out.

thanks to all of you for the help.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2006, 07:40:18 PM »

Holey pistons Bat woman, it's changed into a GPZ500 Sprint.

The only difference between the Sprint and the GPZ500 was the belly fairing.

Pleased to hear she's up and running Heff.

Sam.

heffay · « **Reply #27 on:** April 20, 2006, 08:50:13 AM »

yea... they weren't released in the states with the lower fairing. i always thought they looked retarded without them. on my old one i found one at a junkyard... the PO had this one on already when we picked it up.

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Author Topic: another ex500 post... gas in the oil (Read 8644 times)

BMan1113VR