Topic: Ran out of room for static timing adjustment...on Dyna

[whoismattclark]

I've read various earlier posts and FAQs on running out of adjustment room on the points plate for static timing, but I still have further questions, since I have a Dyna electronic ignition installed on my CB550.  Because of this, I can't do some of the helpful suggestions about opening the points farther, etc.

I have to turn the Dyna plate all the way counter-clockwise, and I still need a hair more.  Does this signify a problem somewhere else in the engine components?

Any other suggestions?  I am about 5 degrees left of the advance timing mark, that I need to be aligned with.  Any warning about running the bike at this retarded timing?

thanks,
MDC

[cntrhub]

Is there a pin that elongated the end of the crank? When 750's crashed on the points side, the steel pin that held the stock advancer in place, would sheer the hole open on that poor soft crank.
If your pin and hole looks good, then either the Dyna pick-ups were staked incorrectly, or you'll have to file the holes to get your 5deg.

Overheating is going to be a problem if you rather not fix it. Call Dyna tech?

[Gordon]

The pick-ups on the Dyna can be adjusted individually on the backing plate. 

[tatanka]

One other thing you can try.
I took the pick-ups off and turned the backing plate around. Then re-assembled the pick-ups on the plate. This gave me just enough room to adjust them a little farther than before.

tatanka

[eurban]

One thought here . . .On my Dyna III the instructions say to check the timing with the engine at full mechanical advance (I think at 2500 or so RPM) using the advance mark on the crank.   Obviously the static timing would be done differently but what I found was that even though my non advanced timing was off just a hair (plate rotation was was just about maxed out) that the timing at full advance was spot on.  Read the Dyna instructions for your setup (presumably Dyna S) and see how they suggest checking timing. My guess is that if you get it close but not quite on the static that you may be have enough adjustment to set the timing properly for full advance.  Remember that your bike spends most of its running life at above 2500 rpm. . . .One more Dyna thing that drove me and my Dad nuts years ago was that the Dyna plate has sort of a printed circuit on the back that requires good contact with the crankcase to form a ground and thus work.  We had intermittent total shut downs on his bike for months that we couldn't figure out to save our life.  Finally we discovered that the plate screws were not quite tight enough to form a good ground at all times.  Dad actually gently soldered a ground wire to the back of his dyna three to the ground circuit and fixed this to convenient bolt.  Problem solved for good and we didn't have to over crank the plate mounting screws.  Basically make sure that your plate screws are tight after checking / adjusting timing and make sure they have lockwashers on them.  Hope this helps

[Gordon]

Any other suggestions?  I am about 5 degrees left of the advance timing mark, that I need to be aligned with.  Any warning about running the bike at this retarded timing?

He's already timing it at full advance. 

Have you taken out the advance mechanism just to make sure it's moving smoothly and opening fully?

[whoismattclark]

I did check the advance mechanism, which was stuck so bad I couldn't pry the sheath off the shaft, but I didn't have too -- I just stole a good one off one of my spare motors.  I attributed the difficulty I had timing the traditional points plate to the bad advance, and used the opportunity to switch to Dyna S as well (also stolen from the other bike), but the "out of room" problem still exists.

I'm interested in trying the flip the backing plate option.  I considered this, but from a visual check I couldn't see if it was symmetrical.

BTW, I have adjusted the individual pickups as far as they go.


The Dyna S installation instructions say that "all timing adjustments should be made using the advance timing marks which are approx 1/2 inch to the right of the F marks on the advance assembly."  Then it goes on to explain the static timing procedure, which is basically that of any regular timing, though using the advance marks.

I've never checked my timing dynamically, at full advance (2500rpm) with a strobe light, on any of my bikes so maybe it's time to invest in a cheap one.



_MattClark_

p.s. 'tatanka' is that from Dances With Wolves?  If so, good nickname, knew a guy in college that went by that moniker, and I was always jealous.  Though you do have to be 200+lbs to wear it well.

[Gordon]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are attempting to static time the ignition at full advance?  If so, then that's the problem.  The full advance timing procedure can only be performed with the engine running and using a strobe timing light.  If you're static timing it at full advance, then your timing overall will be way too advanced. 

[scondon]

Dyna does give instructions on how to "static time" the engine at full advance but it seemed like an awkward process and too easy to get wrong. Cheap timing light at auto parts store is a good tool to have.

[Gordon]

Dyna does give instructions on how to "static time" the engine at full advance but it seemed like an awkward process and too easy to get wrong. Cheap timing light at auto parts store is a good tool to have.

How does it say to do it?  Would you have to manually hold the advance mechanism at full advance while setting the timing? 

[whoismattclark]

I kinda thought it was strange but I thought it was an Electoric Ignition thing.  Here's the instructions:

1) To time the engine statically connect a 12 volt test light from the juncton of the blude coil wires to ground.  Rotate engine.

2) Turn ignition on.  While holding rotor in the fully advanced position (clockwise)....slowly rotate engine forward until the test light turns on.  The right hand advance more for cylinders 1-4 should alight with the fixed mark on the engine case.

I also attached a PDF of the instructions...

I hope it's as simple as lining everything back up at F.  That I can do, and be done with it.

[whoismattclark]

Dyna does give instructions on how to "static time" the engine at full advance but it seemed like an awkward process and too easy to get wrong. Cheap timing light at auto parts store is a good tool to have.

How does it say to do it?  Would you have to manually hold the advance mechanism at full advance while setting the timing? 

Oh, I see.  Maybe that's true.  I need to twist the black Dyna rotor to full advance, while spinning the engine to the advance mark at the same time.  Or at least I think that's it.  I'll try that for static timing, then pickup at strobe light.

[Gordon]

Oh, I see.  Maybe that's true.  I need to twist the black Dyna rotor to full advance, while spinning the engine to the advance mark at the same time.  Or at least I think that's it.  I'll try that for static timing, then pickup at strobe light.

That's what the instructions are saying.  I've always used a strobe light, so guess I never got to that part of the manual. 

[Terry in Australia]

I think it's buggered mate, send it to me and I'll dispose of it thoughtfully..................

[mick750F]

I think it's buggered mate, send it to me and I'll dispose of it thoughtfully..................

   Terry...So thoughtful, and as always, a gentleman. Where you been brother? Oh, hold on, it's me that's been missing.

Mike

[Terry in Australia]

I think it's buggered mate, send it to me and I'll dispose of it thoughtfully..................

   Terry...So thoughtful, and as always, a gentleman. Where you been brother? Oh, hold on, it's me that's been missing.

Mike

G'Day Mike, glad to hear you found the bail money mate, and if you need a character witness, just send me a plane ticket and a carton of EC, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[markg]

Oh, I see.  Maybe that's true.  I need to twist the black Dyna rotor to full advance, while spinning the engine to the advance mark at the same time.  Or at least I think that's it.  I'll try that for static timing, then pickup at strobe light.

Can someone elaborate on what exactly the "black Dyna rotor" is?  And how to twist it to full advance while spinning the engine?

thanks

[KB02]

When I put a Dyan S into my F1 I had the exact same problem - You're not alone whoismattclack. I even went as far as thinking that the backing plate was on backwards and I reversed it to try to get more adjustment. If I remember correctly, it turned out that I was turning the engine in the wrong direction when trying to time it. Turning in the right direction (and setting the backing plate back to the way it was) and everything fell into place like it was supposed to. 

You have to consider this - the ignition is made to work in the engine. If you're out of adjustment room, there's something out of place.

And yeah, the whole "Set timing at Full advance" thing is a pain in the butt. Basically, the instructions say to whole the advance at full while setting the timing. Not the easiest. I ended up dangling a spark plug next to something grounded so a spark would fly when I hit the mark. I couldn't hold the advancer at full, rotate the engine AND use a timing light with only two hands. And my neighbor was drunk that night - hence the whole turning the engine backwards thing...

[markg]

Yeah, but how do you hold the advancer at full?  And which way do you turn the engine.  Clockwise... correct?

[KB02]

You just reach in with one hand and turn the advancer. That's how I did it anyway.