Topic: CB550 Cafe build - 1st bike build, but not 1st build

[HedNut]

Top notch my man! Love your design work...excellent additions to your bike!

[tweakin]

Simply awesome.  Excellent work, I love where this bike is going.

[Tintop]

Simply awesome.  Excellent work, I love where this bike is going.

Thanks tweakin.  Really like your 750, but it seems like your in with a tough crowd for BOTM.

[Tintop]

Top notch my man! Love your design work...excellent additions to your bike!

Its the 'design work' part that I like the most.  That, and doing the final assembly; seeing the original 'picture', and the final result come together.

[Aladinsane07]

Sorry to go off topic here, but can you shed a little light on your work history?  I'm just really curious because you do very thorough work and have alluded to your race car knowledge a couple times. If you don't want to, that's cool too.

That said, I'm very much enjoying both your projects 

[Tintop]

Sorry to go off topic here, but can you shed a little light on your work history?  I'm just really curious because you do very thorough work and have alluded to your race car knowledge a couple times. If you don't want to, that's cool too.

That said, I'm very much enjoying both your projects  

Hey Aladinsane07, glad to have you along for the ride.  As for your question, don't mine giving some answers, but will think about it 1st.

On an other note - the remote filter mount has arrived from Terry in Australia.  WOW!  Many thanks Terry.

I can only say that if you think it looks good in the picture, you should see it in person!  I read in an other post something about Terry and pink, so thought my latest therapy toy made a good prop.


Off to be anodized tomorrow, should get it back next week along with the adapter plate, and the fork brace.  The mounting ring will be clear for sure.  Not sure if I want to do the filter section clear, or red like the adapter.

[Old75_ratafe]

I hear ya I just dug mine out and am hoping (fingers crossed) to at least get it road worthy enough to get a few weeks of ridding in before the weather gets nasty.

[Tintop]

I hear ya I just dug mine out and am hoping (fingers crossed) to at least get it road worthy enough to get a few weeks of ridding in before the weather gets nasty.

As soon as I feel there is enough strength in my hand to operate the brake, the 400 will get licenced & road insured.  Just hope that's before it gets to cold.

[Old75_ratafe]

I hear ya I just dug mine out and am hoping (fingers crossed) to at least get it road worthy enough to get a few weeks of ridding in before the weather gets nasty.

As soon as I feel there is enough strength in my hand to operate the brake, the 400 will get licenced & road insured.  Just hope that's before it gets to cold.

Wait we're supposed to use the brakes?    Oh wait sorry those were the idiots on crotch rockets around me that went buzzing past my car at over 120 in heavy traffic yesterday.

[Tintop]

Wait we're supposed to use the brakes?    Oh wait sorry those were the idiots on crotch rockets around me that went buzzing past my car at over 120 in heavy traffic yesterday.

I can twist the throttle just fine now , just thought being able to stop had some importance too.

As for the crotch rockets.  I live at the bottom of a steep, long hill, and they all use it as an acceleration test.  WOT through 4 gears.

[CB500Four]

G´Day Tintop

Really awesome build.
You have catched me. Love the four exhaust pipes.
But you have catched me much more with your speed pony projekt.
Thats a great´n awful thing.
All the best wishes for both projekts. I will lurk on them.


Regards,

 

[Tintop]

G´Day Tintop
Really awesome build.
You have catched me. Love the four exhaust pipes.
But you have catched me much more with your speed pony projekt.
Thats a great´n awful thing.
All the best wishes for both projekts. I will lurk on them.
Regards,

Thanks for the compliments CB500F.

As soon as I get my fork brace back, the pipes go back on for the final time before 1st start.

Really like your avatar, at some point would like one like that of myself on Speed Pony.   You don't have to lurk, any comments, suggestions, questions are always welcome.

Tintop

[Tintop]

Had a very productive day at the shop.  Got more of my wiring sorted.  Although from the spaghetti draped all over the bike you wouldn't know it.   The Hondaman ignition is mounted, along with the HID ballest and igniter.  Mounted the electronic flasher using the old flasher rubber mount.  Who says a big round flasher doesn't fit a small rectangular mount.   Rivetted a tab to the tray to hold it in place.

Finished my stack mounts, and installed the FCR stacks on the engine.  Wow.   Two M4 setscrews hold each one in place.  Filters for 1 & 4 are going to be a treat.

Took pictures but can't post them right now.  I'm @ 95% bandwidth on Photobucket!   Going to set up a 2nd email acount and start posting pictures from there.

[HedNut]

Hey TinTop!.... question for you about your flasher..... does it work? .... The reason I ask is I have led's all around Front,back, and 2 singles on the dash for left and right.... each side pulls a total of only 0.4amps...and it's still not enough to light up the flasher....even though I bought a LED flasher!  It's much like yours with the ground wire...but a Grote.   

Can't wait to see the pics!!!

[Tintop]

Hey TinTop!.... question for you about your flasher..... does it work? .... The reason I ask is I have led's all around Front,back, and 2 singles on the dash for left and right.... each side pulls a total of only 0.4amps...and it's still not enough to light up the flasher....even though I bought a LED flasher!  It's much like yours with the ground wire...but a Grote.   

Can't wait to see the pics!!!

Can't answer your question yet as I haven't connected everything to test.  That should happen next week.  The one difference between your setup and mine is I am still using 1157 bulbs up front (may switch to LEDs).  The flasher unit I am using was supplied by the Centech.  It is suppose to be what they use on Harley customs when they go to LEDs.  I have read that with a full LED setup you may have to install a resistor pack, which kind of defeats the lower draw purpose of the LEDs.

[Tintop]

So I got a new Photobucket account setup, so back to posting pictures!

1st up the FCR stacks mounted to my PD carbs.  They are bolted to the alloy mount, and the mount has two m4 x 6 set screws to hold it in position.  Still have to blend the inside taper to the PD bell.  Will use a sleeve, but not sure if I will use plastic, or have alloy pieces made.  Also have to work on filters now, but very little space to work with.  Ideally there should be an gap (20mm) between the back of the filter, and the top of the stack bell.  However there is only 15mm between the bell and the frame.






Laying out the electronic bits.  Still have to drill holes for the grommets to pass the wires from the tail to the front.  The washers and nuts are temporary to hold trays until seat installed.


1st fitting of the remote oil filter mount that Terry in Australia made.  Had to file a relief at the bottom to clear the oil gallery plug.  Seems 750's don't have these.   Have spoken to the machinest about this minor design flaw.   Mounting ring will stay natural (have to polish the clutch cover anyway), but the filter mount is being anodized red.

[traveler]

Everything really looks nice.

I imagine you will have close to 10 grand in the bike when done.  You might also want to think about some baffling for the pipes.....it may be too loud.

You might want to think about the "booties" I used on my velocity stacks for cleaning the air.  They are from "CAS4".  They come in different colors.

what tank and seat are you going to use on this bike?

~Joe
 

[Tintop]

Everything really looks nice.
I imagine you will have close to 10 grand in the bike when done.  You might also want to think about some baffling for the pipes.....it may be too loud.
You might want to think about the "booties" I used on my velocity stacks for cleaning the air.  They are from "CAS4".  They come in different colors.
what tank and seat are you going to use on this bike?
~Joe
 

Thanks Joe.  I just put the bills in a very big envelope.   The bigger ones you count on - paint / fab & machine services / basic parts for overhaul; it's the little ones that add up.   Of course it hasn't helped that I like billet. There's 550 stuff available (TTR4 & others), and I can produce stuff at home that a waterjet or CNC can use to make it.  

Am not sure if I will use the 50mm FCR stacks.  Got all 4 for $60, Sudco wants $44US for 1!  If I can't come up with a workable filter system with the 50mm ones, I'll have to bit the bullet and get some 30mm ones.  If I do that it would solve two issues.  I can get the ones with a 33mm ID and taper them out to 36mm.  That would solve the blending problem, and the shorter height would give me the space I need for the filter I had in mind originally.  Going to think about that for a while, as I do the other things needed to get it started.

As for baffels.  Yeah all indications are its going to be loud.   I've heard 105/110db is possible at anything over 1/2 thottle.  Going to have to install something, but still going through threads looking for the right solution.  Best so far is the Snuff-n-Not (?).  Possibility of the best of both worlds.  But to last it would have to be better engineered than the originals.

Seat is an Airtech 750 SBK, tank a 76 750F, picture(s) at the beginning of the thread.

[Godffery]

FYI;
Most stacks decrease power, it you want some that actually make HP, contact Terry at http://www.teamhansenhonda.com/index.html of course they won't be the cheepest on the market but who wants that anyway...?   

[traveler]

Something that should be mentioned is that all velocity stacks are NOT created equal.

Shorter velocity stacks peform better at higher RPM's, and longer velocity stacks improve mid range power.

So.....going with shorter stacks for clearance WILL have an effect, even if it basically negligible on a 400 lb. bike.

Just wanted to put that out there.  And, for what it's worth, the "booties" over the stacks work FANTASTIC!

~Joe

[Tintop]

Hey Godffery & traveller, thanks for the input.

This is certainly not the 1st time I have dealt with stacks.  Both my Lotus TC's (both dry sump, 1 street, 1 race), the solo1 2TG, and my MGB & Spitfire all had them.  Even have this link still in my Favourites - http://www.velocity-of-sound.com/velocity_of_sound/calculator2.htm if I really want to 'get it right'.

An engine is nothing more than an air pump.  Given this is a stock motor, with no head work, there is a limit to how much you can cram through.  I'm actually concerned that the Swarbrick pipes flow to well, and will have to add baffles not for sound, but to gain backpressure.   The plan from the beginning was to create a strong / clean running stock street engine.  The only mod will be a slotted cam sprocket, so I can play with the cam timing.

I've read a lot of the threads about pods vs air box, and other 550 carb issues.  Two things stick out to me.  When you remove the air box, and just install pods, you also loose the 'stacks' that connect them to the box.  This can be only detrimental to intake air velocity at low throttle opening.  I am not convinced yet that the box's 'still air' is an issue though.  So adding stacks has to be the 1st step in re-balancing the system.  As to long or short, for a street engine mid range & torque are king.  So tuning for that is the primary goal, and I can get there by different paths.  The 50mm are about what I would like to use, but shorter can work as well, would just choke it down slightly (the 33 ID x 30mm).  This is what Hansen appears to be doing with those racing stacks.  I know this works, because I used this trick on my racing kart where we were restricted to stock parts, but any filter.

The other issue seems to be the timing advance.  Having rebuilt distributors for MGs & Jags I think I'm going to play with that as well.  The standard trick has been to shorten the spring.  With the MG ones, you can not only use different springs (x3 spring rates available), but also different weights.  This allows you to tailor the advance curve.  Trying to figure out if I can adapt my Sun 504 Tester to the Honda setup.

Thanks for the lead on the booties Joe.  However I need a 'street' solution, and they don't offer full protection.  As I mentioned before, I also want to have an 'air gap' between the filter back, and the bell mouth.  To my mind if the 'filter' (bootie or screen) is sitting on the bell mouth it has to be disturbing the air flow, and there by limiting the effectiveness of the stack.  Both Piper & ITG recommend a minimum of 20mm clearance when using their filter socks with stacks. 

Boy this got long!   Quick comment on CR29's.  It seems to me that for the $800US what your really getting is stacks, & more importantly accelerator pumps.  Those little beauties can hide flats spots in a wink.  If I can't get the PD's working to my satisfaction, I'm going to try 750 carbs, because of the pumps.

[Syscrush]

Quick comment on CR29's.  It seems to me that for the $800US what your really getting is stacks, & more importantly accelerator pumps.  Those little beauties can hide flats spots in a wink.  If I can't get the PD's working to my satisfaction, I'm going to try 750 carbs, because of the pumps.

I think that what you're REALLY getting is a round slide carb that can work without an airbox, as opposed to the stock CV carbs which are just never going to be tunable to work without an airbox, because the vacuum signal to lift the slides just isn't there.

[Tintop]

Quick comment on CR29's.  It seems to me that for the $800US what your really getting is stacks, & more importantly accelerator pumps.  Those little beauties can hide flats spots in a wink.  If I can't get the PD's working to my satisfaction, I'm going to try 750 carbs, because of the pumps.

I think that what you're REALLY getting is a round slide carb that can work without an airbox, as opposed to the stock CV carbs which are just never going to be tunable to work without an airbox, because the vacuum signal to lift the slides just isn't there.

The PD's are not CV carbs, just the 'emission' version of the previous mechanical slide carbs.  The carbs I'm familiar with that use vaccum to lift the slides (needles), all take their 'signal' from the intake maifold side.  Can't see how it would work from the air box side.  You won't get a pressure drop in the air box (vaccum) until the slide moves, and you need the pressure drop to make that happen.   However on the manifold side, as soon as you open the butterflys there is an intake pressure change that starts the slide lifting (SU's).  With a CV carb it is the pressure difference between ambient (one side of diaphram), and manifold pressure drop on the other that lifts the slide (Zenith Stromberg).  Can't see that bike CV's operate any different, but I stand to be corrected by the forums knowledge base.

[traveler]

If you can afford them....CR 29's are the way to go.

I applaud your detail on the PD's...they really look beautiful....but IF, for some reason they just won't do it, bite the bullet (as I had to) and go with CR's.

They really are the nicest damn carbs I have ever worked with!

(and I'm a BIG EFI fan)

~Joe

[Zaipai]

Dang that is shaping up really nice Tin..

.: Scott :.