Topic: Clutch problem: CB500

[Scott S]

 I tried to do a preliminary clutch adjustment on my '71 CB500 today and ran into a couple of problems.
 First, the cable holder on the actuator had been buggered up. The cable kept snapping out of it and when I tried to crimp it tight, I broke it.

[Scott S]

 I removed the actuator and drilled out the rivet. I replaced the cable holder with one from my Yamaha XS650 parts pile. I had to slightly enlarge the hole in the actuator arm. The Yamaha holder is a much better design and is held in place with a cotter pin. It's ~2mm longer than the Honda holder, but nothing I shouldn't be able to adjust out.

[Scott S]

 I noticed the actuator arm was bent and didn't give the cable a straight shot. Repaired that and reinstalled everything. Liberally greased the actuator, ball bearing, pushrod, etc.

[Scott S]

 Here's the second (and currently unresolved) problem. I adjusted the clutch per the manual but it doesn't seem to be engaging ( or is it DIS-engaging....).
 I have the 2-3mm freeplay at the lever. I bottomed out the screw on the side cover and backed off 3 mm (meaning, if the screwdriver slot was at, say, 1 o'clock, I moved it counter clockwise 3 mm and then tightened the set screw. Sound right?)
 I adjusted the cable at the case and at the lever as best I could.

 When I pull the lever, it gets FIRM; like a well bled brake lever firm. It's like it's not pushing in the pushrod to activate the clutch. I can put the bike in 1st or 2nd gear, pull the lever in and the wheel will NOT turn.
 The engine is not stuck. I can turn it over by hand or with the starter. I can get at least 1st and 2nd gear.
 This bike sat for almost 30 years. I'm wondering if something in the clutch basket has gotten stuck? Think the plates may be frozen together?

[Scott S]

 I plan to pull the left side cover again soon and watch the actuator move with the clutch lever and see what it looks like.
 I'll also check the pushrod and see if it's OK.
 Any idea as to what might be going on or do I need to pull the basket?

[Scott S]

 I would really appreciate some ideas on this one. I really want to pull the clutch basket as a last resort.
 Help?

[number13]

What is the conditionof your cable?
Could it be binding?
They feel tight when they get old and worn, it may need replacing.

[Scott S]

 Cable is brand new. Think it could still be binding? Maybe need to lube it up really well?

 It gets to a point and I just don't have the hand strength to close it anymore and if I did it feels like I'm just stretching the cable.

[number13]

It certainly could be binding, check the routing there.
Has this bike been working up till now? Is the clutch pack frozen?

[Scott S]

 This bike has been parked for 28+ years. That's my concern....something in the clutch basket has "become one" with something else while it sat.
 The bike was kicked over from time to time when it sat, but that still leave LONG periods of time when at least part of the clutch basket was not submerged in oil.

[smileswithadimple]

Maybe run a few caps of seafoam in the oil and see if that helps free anything up? GL!

[Scott S]

 I plan to attempt to start the bike next week. You think simply getting some heat in the engine and letting it run on the center stand may help the clutch basket?

[smileswithadimple]

Well I know heat helps many a things get un-stuck, and seafoam is a miracle liquid that will free stuck pistons, so its worth a try?!?  But I truely think its an adjustment issue rather than the latter.  GL!

[Scott S]

 And I hope you're right?

 Let's do this: Someone talk me through a complete adjustment, step by step, and see if I can get this thing to work correctly.

[raptor4568]

Did you download the manual from the faq?  It's all there step by step.

I'd also run it for a while if you can, it sure can't hurt.  You're going to run it soon anyway, so why not do it before you get into the clutch.

I just tore into the clutch basket on my 73 500, after putting it off for a couple of years.  It's not too bad, other than the terrible seized screws.  I have strange springs in mine (much longer than spec), even though it didn't look as if anyone had opened it.  Your problem might be obvious too once you're there, and it should really only cost you a new gasket to find out.

Good luck with it.

[Scott S]

 You mean the manual in the FAQ at the top of this forum? It doesn't work. Download is incomplete and all it shows is a bunch of gibberish.I have a manual (Chilton or Clymers...can't remember, It's out in the garage).
 
 What about the large adjusting screw with the lock bolt  on the side of the case? Is it supposed to be "pre-set" or in a certain position when the actuator has been removed? I noticed that it doesn't have much "travel". For instance, if one side of the screw slot is at 10 o'clock, it only moves to about 1 o'clock. That's full travel from fully open to bottomed out. Does that sound correct?
 And when they say "back it off 3 mm", does that just mean to move it counterclockwise back from 1 o'clock about 3mm? So now it's just after high noon, so to speak?

[bryanj]

Look in the bulletins, i know ther is one in there about the adjuster

[Scott S]

 This is all I see on the FAQ page:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=260.0

 Not much there to help me on this problem....

[Kirby]

Scott, if you have a new cable, and it moves freely when not hooked up, it should be ok.  Your new homemade clevis looks great by the way, but make sure it is not reaching to and binding on the case protector plate.  I would think your cable housing should be adjusted much closer to the housing, and initial slack taken up with the main clutch adjuster on the center of the housing.  Then if you feel like you are not getting "normal" full pull on the lever, then it is on to the lifter rod that goes over to the clutch, and the clutch discs themselves...Hasn't run for 28 years?...yeah, something might be stuck.  I think you need to open up the right side.  Good luck

[Scott S]

  I would think your cable housing should be adjusted much closer to the housing, and initial slack taken up with the main clutch adjuster on the center of the housing. 

 Can you clarify this a little bit? I take it you mean the small adjuster nut in this pic?


 And by main clutch adjuster, do you mean the large screw on the side of the case?

[bryanj]

You will find the bulletins here. Dont just search the forums for info the search function only works in the section you are in

http://www.sohc4.net/index.php?q=node/324

[Jordan]

just a thought, that extra 2mm in length and straightening the arm could be causing not enough rotation to engage something. If you backed the adjuster off 3mm shouldn't you need 5mm+ to compensate for the added length? then straightening the arm added more length, it could be causing the whole thing to hit the inside of the case instead of rotating the arm far enough to engage something?

[Scott S]

 Is the arm supposed to be bent? The way it was, there wasn't a straight shot from the cable to the actuator.
 I just assumed that it had been bent/damage, going from the looks of the Clevis.
 Maybe someone can give me a good pic of what the arm is supposed to look like?

[Scott S]

You will find the bulletins here. Dont just search the forums for info the search function only works in the section you are in

http://www.sohc4.net/index.php?q=node/324

 Thanks Bryan, but those don't show me anything as far as the adjustment procedure. It's just a service bulletin about the adjuster.

 Is the lifter/clutch arm SUPPOSED to have a bend in it? Did I screw up by straightening it?

[Jordan]

I have a 73 the cover is in a box somewhere, so after I fix my lawn mower, I will attempt to take a photo, no guarantee mine is the same or in worse shape, I haven't even got that far into it yet. Jordan

[raptor4568]

Sorry, that worked the last time I used it.  This seems to work now.  The procedure for adjustment is on page 12:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14355713/Honda-CB500-CB550-workshop-manual

I'll try to get you a picture of my lifter too.

[number13]

This bike has been parked for 28+ years.

You can pretty much bet that the clutch plates are
stuck together. Removal is easy and once off you should be
able to pry the plates apart. Soak the fiber plates in clean
gasoline for a few hours, then re assemble.

[Jordan]

here you go took longer than expected to fix my mower drive

[Scott S]

 Jordan, can you tell by looking at it if the actuator arm has a slight bend or twist in it?

[Scott S]

This bike has been parked for 28+ years.

You can pretty much bet that the clutch plates are
stuck together. Removal is easy and once off you should be
able to pry the plates apart. Soak the fiber plates in clean
gasoline for a few hours, then re assemble.

 I tend to agree. When I finish up night shift I'll take the left side cover off one more time and make SURE that nothing in there is binding or hitting, etc.
 I'll probably make an attempt to start the bike and synch the carbs before draining the oil. After that, I'll pull the clutch basket if the problem persists.

[Jordan]

No bend or twist, is a flat plate, maybe/probably stuck clutch plates and maybe the wrong size ball bearing on the end of the long shaft that goes thru to the other side, I was thinking the swivel part is hitting that guard thingy and not moving the arm far enough

[Scott S]

 That has  crossed my mind, too. I'll be going back in the left side to double and triple check everything after I finish up night shift.

[Kirby]

Scott, I just put my engine together yesterday...head, cam, and rockers tomorrow.  I'll pull the left side cover off tomorrow and try to get a pic.  Kirby

[scottly]

It's common for wet clutches to get stuck after sitting. First, loosen the adjustment enough that the lever can be pulled in without feeling like something is going to break. Then, put the bike in first gear, pull in the clutch lever, and rock the bike back and forth. Did it on two different bikes today!

[bryanj]

Comparing the pictures you dont seem to have as much clearance between the pull piece and the steel guard as the original, this would cause the two pieces to clash and stop the cable solid.

Make sure you can get full movement of the arm not forgetting it winds out of the case as it operates

[Scott S]

 Pulled the whole shooting match apart today and didn't really find anything, BUT..I seem to have clutch operation now.

 I drained the oil and pulled the basket. The discs are like new. They, along with the springs, measure within spec.  There were a few discs/plates that were stuck together, but nothing I couldn't pry apart with my fingernail.
 Reassembled the left side cover but left the right side open so we could watch the basket move. Went through the adjustment sequence several times and eventually got the right combination of lever/cable adjustment to make everything work.
 I'm sure I'll have to fine tune it once the bike is running but, as of now,  I'm calling it good to go!

[scottly]

It's common for wet clutches to get stuck after sitting. put the bike in first gear, pull in the clutch lever, and rock the bike back and forth. Did it on two different bikes today!

[Scott S]

It's common for wet clutches to get stuck after sitting. put the bike in first gear, pull in the clutch lever, and rock the bike back and forth. Did it on two different bikes today!

 Well, I was sent the wrong chain, so the bike doesn't have a chain on it. Couldn't try this method right now. After sitting for 28 years it was probably a good idea to check it all out anyway.