Author Topic: Hardening kickstart spindle.  (Read 2921 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MattFreeman

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
  • What Have I Done?
Hardening kickstart spindle.
« on: May 08, 2010, 06:27:40 AM »
Does anyone have any info on hardening a kickstart spindle? Do you case harden or through harden to a specific rockwell? Does anyone know the actual material used in the spindle?

I'm going kick only and I don't want to have to open the case again if I get heel heavy during a tough start.

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 06:43:43 AM »
Does anyone have any info on hardening a kickstart spindle? Do you case harden or through harden to a specific rockwell? Does anyone know the actual material used in the spindle?

I'm going kick only and I don't want to have to open the case again if I get heel heavy during a tough start.

YOu are new enough to the forum you may not have read what I've been thru. SOme background:

RC (Russ Collins) Engineering used to sell a shot peened/heat treated spindle. I wanted one for my project. No sources. So I looked into it myself. Shot peening was found about 4 miles from my house. THey had a minimum shop order, so I got 3 done for the same price as 1.

Next I found heat treaters on the southside of Indy. But they asked the same questions as you, what is the beginning Rockwell number and specifically what is it made of? With no answers they said they didn't want to do it. TO get the answers would be cost prohibitive.

So Ecosse (I think, may have been someone else, apologies) introduced me to Cryogenic Treatment. THis is all the rage now in racing circles. Google it to get your own background. But essentially, it convinced me that Cryo was just as good as heat treating for my purposes.

I found a source in Lebanon IN but the proprietor had business at some race shops near my house and he picked up my shafts personally. Cost was really cheap.  http://www.cryogenicsofindiana.com/products.htm  Click on the racing button.

I sold the one extra I had to a forum member and am keeping the other 2.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MattFreeman

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
  • What Have I Done?
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 01:55:01 PM »
Thanks

I'll look into the cryo treatment.

A friend of mine and I discussed case hardening (the axles on a car are case hardened) which would require less specific info but we'll see.

No one knows what these are made of?

Offline BobbyR

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,367
  • Proud Owner of the Babe Thread & Dirty Old Man
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 04:47:16 PM »
Thanks

I'll look into the cryo treatment.

A friend of mine and I discussed case hardening (the axles on a car are case hardened) which would require less specific info but we'll see.

No one knows what these are made of?
I would imagine they are of a mild steel.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

co425

  • Guest
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 07:47:01 AM »
If anyone does more than one of these I would like one of them if the price is fair. I am really considering kick only for my cb cafe that I want to build.

Offline Hannibal Smith

  • 3rd Grade Dropout
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 09:30:44 AM »
So these things are constantly breaking?
Follow my build "P38 Racer" in Project section

Offline kpier883

  • is quite the
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2010, 10:25:57 AM »
I always thought a steel that was hardened became more brittle.  Resistance to scratching/gouging etc doesn't seem to me to be of much benefit for a kickstart spindle, unless the objective is to keep the shaft from wearing in the bearings or bushings etc. 

74 CB750
80 CBX
82 KZ1000 K2 (LTD)
57 1/2 ton chevy

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2010, 02:28:30 PM »
So these things are constantly breaking?
Not "constantly breaking". But if you have a high compression. kick only CB750, once in a great while a KS shaft will break. So while you've got it apart, why not upgrade?

Just a little insurance...

I've seen 2 in my lifetime, pretty hyper kick only engines. There have been a few breakages documetned on this forum in the last 2 years or so.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Hardening kickstart spindle.
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2010, 02:30:25 PM »
I always thought a steel that was hardened became more brittle.  Resistance to scratching/gouging etc doesn't seem to me to be of much benefit for a kickstart spindle, unless the objective is to keep the shaft from wearing in the bearings or bushings etc.  


It may be more brittle but it is also stronger in the area that needs strength.

The shot peening is part of the process as well.

Shot peening and hardening served many a kick only engine well for all the years they were available.

But your point is taken and thats why I like cryogenics over hardening. Cryogenics were not available back in the 70s
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 02:33:19 PM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."